Layonara - View Single Post - Refusing to heal the overtly evil is evil?

lonnarin · 09-23-08, 01:22 PM

In reference to the pending case here...

http://forums.layonara.com/disputes-...d-pending.html

I post here seperately as to not interfere with the flow of the debate and logs and documentation from the people who were actually there, though wanted to address the morality behind the situation.

When is it an evil act to kill an evil dark elf who is currently in the process of torturing somebody? This dark elf was actively whipping Iradril's friends he was sworn to protect. Maybe if Iradil had stopped by the body to torture it in return I would see that as evil, but he simply refused to give her aid. Goodly clerics are SUPPOSED to do this when they come across goodly people of other faiths heretical to their gods, Toranites and Lucindites aren't likely to raise eachother or even bless eachother. A Lucindite of good faith is likely to leave a Corathite to bleed to death in a ditch, good riddance. Would a Prunillite really go out of their way to heal a dying Pyrtechite who had a history of setting their barn on fire? Deity opposition and religious oaths aside, and simply a moral measure... would it really be so wrong to not heal somebody who was killed in self defense?

Say you were walking your girlfriend home and a mugger hopped out of the bushes, drew a blade and started threatening to rape and murder her with it. If you or your GF then grabbed the knife from his hand and stabbed him in the neck with it, causing a mortal wound, and you knew that he was a member of a local gang who called this area their turf, who would gladly slaughter you and she both in response were lurking nearby, are you really going to stop and apply first aid? NO! You get the heck out of there and protect the person you love first and foremost! If that guy didnt deserve a knife in his neck, he wouldnt have ben waving it at you in the first place! For a good person, heck for all people, the primary concern is with the ones you love, family and friends.

Now dark elves are at a level of evil above and beyond most serial murderers. This is pounded into our heads again and again, they are eeevil, killed on sight in the goodly city, and we are in a perpetual state of war with them. So when you have the Layonaran equivalent of a Richard Ramirez eater of babies dark elf in the process of trying to torture or kill one of your allies, I have trouble seeing simply not healing them as anything more than a neutral act, possibly good. Does Indiana Jones get evil points when he shoots the nazi who is torturing his father, or grinds up the Kali worshipping slavedriver who was beating Short Round? Do Hempstead guards get evil points when they obey the law that says "kill dark elves on sight, regardless of temperment or reason for being there?" Think about it, Iradril is deemed as acting evil in this case for simply not healing a dark elf which tortured his friends that was nearly killed in self defense. What does this speak for the guards who it is their sworn duty to kill on sight every dark elf they spot? Does that make all Hempsteadians "evil" for not standing up, drawing their weapons and facing down the guards to protect the dark elf? If you do nothing while you see a guard kill somebody on sight who you've seen do nothing wrong, its not considered evil, and yet if you simply dont heal somebody who was just seen by you torturing your friend and who had a city of like-minded dark elves nearby who would kill you and your friends for sheer pleasure, is it really evil just to simply do nothing and let them die?

Furthermore, they were on a somewhat clandenstine operation. In order to save their country and possibly the free world, they need to infiltrate this place. What about the FBI man who wears a wire and witnesses a mob shooting? He could either try to do his job gathering evidence and take down this murdering mob boss and his entire organization so they wont be able to kill again, or he could blow his cover and immediately start performing first aid on the informant they just shot. How long do you think he would live after that? Will he suffer a loss of his soul in simply not getting himself killed for the ill-concieved sake of kneejerk emotional morality? Does this make every protaganist in a John Woo film... evil?

These people were on a mission trying to save lives and potentially the world. An evil evil dark elf who we are told constantly should be killed on sight for all that is good got killed only after showing her obvious foul temperment and intent to cause suffering to perfect strangers. If refusing to heal this dark elf was an evil act, then I would charge much of the same to every Lucindite who refuses to raise or heal a Toranite, and every Voraxian who would refuse to heal a Grandite from near death. The only possible way I could see Iradril as being evil in this instance were if he was unsatisfied with simply letting the evil, vile, abusive dark elf die, and were to heal her back simply to torture her for hours on end, or at least defile her body. If he simply took no action, and didnt even try to finish the job, then he acted in this case with more compassion and mercy than the Hempstead guards or any member of the Mistonian Military would have done. Are the latter two groups then officially... "evil"?

In my opinion, only a VERY diehard fanatic follower of Azatta or Aeriden would see evil here, and they are the absolute extremes of good to the point of martyrdom. When clergy of LG Vorax would gladly "put her out of her misery", a Lucindite would shrug and move on, and Captain Trent, the bastion of goodness with a heart of gold (or so his description says) would do far worse, then I would compare all of these to Iradril and conclude that this was no evil act. It was the act of a person with above a 6 intelligence score who didnt want to blow his whole mission and get his entire party killed out of fanatical moralist protest. Now if there was something in his emote like he laughed coldy or kicked the body as it bled to death, that is evil RP. I didnt see any of that in the logs.

Now I know evil. Gloom would have bound her up, healed her and sold her to Kartharian pleasure slavers or made her join a deep dwarven city's chain gang mining salt for the next 800 years... or if he took it personally would have tortured her until she begged Sulterio for mercy then laughed "Mercy? Sulterio has no mercy!" and killed her anyway with a terrifyied expression on her face. Grovel would have cut off her arms and legs, eaten them, fed the rest back to her so she could taste how yummy dark elves were, and tortured her over the course of several years to teach him elven while she was chained to a wall in some remote cavern, feeding her little more than tube grubs and moldy water for sustainance. THATS evil. Bjorn would have probably just shrugged and let her be, Earl would have probably finished the job and punted her head over the walls to send a message to the rest, Kor would have probably eaten her, but more out of hunger and practicality than out of spite, and Farros would have probably healed her back, but only to ransom her to the highest bidder. Dark elves are evil, pity them not. They seriously are the kinds of people that will slaughter a surfacer's baby in the crib just because their bored, and murder their own parents in order to advance in political stature. If they weren't then their alignments wouldnt be so restricted when making them!

09-23-08, 01:22 PM	#1
lonnarin Ancient Dragon Characters Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In the throes of a drunken Pon Farr rage Posts: 3,060 Thanks: 1,629 Thanked 1,493 Times in 596 Posts	Refusing to heal the overtly evil is evil? In reference to the pending case here... http://forums.layonara.com/disputes-...d-pending.html I post here seperately as to not interfere with the flow of the debate and logs and documentation from the people who were actually there, though wanted to address the morality behind the situation. When is it an evil act to kill an evil dark elf who is currently in the process of torturing somebody? This dark elf was actively whipping Iradril's friends he was sworn to protect. Maybe if Iradil had stopped by the body to torture it in return I would see that as evil, but he simply refused to give her aid. Goodly clerics are SUPPOSED to do this when they come across goodly people of other faiths heretical to their gods, Toranites and Lucindites aren't likely to raise eachother or even bless eachother. A Lucindite of good faith is likely to leave a Corathite to bleed to death in a ditch, good riddance. Would a Prunillite really go out of their way to heal a dying Pyrtechite who had a history of setting their barn on fire? Deity opposition and religious oaths aside, and simply a moral measure... would it really be so wrong to not heal somebody who was killed in self defense? Say you were walking your girlfriend home and a mugger hopped out of the bushes, drew a blade and started threatening to rape and murder her with it. If you or your GF then grabbed the knife from his hand and stabbed him in the neck with it, causing a mortal wound, and you knew that he was a member of a local gang who called this area their turf, who would gladly slaughter you and she both in response were lurking nearby, are you really going to stop and apply first aid? NO! You get the heck out of there and protect the person you love first and foremost! If that guy didnt deserve a knife in his neck, he wouldnt have ben waving it at you in the first place! For a good person, heck for all people, the primary concern is with the ones you love, family and friends. Now dark elves are at a level of evil above and beyond most serial murderers. This is pounded into our heads again and again, they are eeevil, killed on sight in the goodly city, and we are in a perpetual state of war with them. So when you have the Layonaran equivalent of a Richard Ramirez eater of babies dark elf in the process of trying to torture or kill one of your allies, I have trouble seeing simply not healing them as anything more than a neutral act, possibly good. Does Indiana Jones get evil points when he shoots the nazi who is torturing his father, or grinds up the Kali worshipping slavedriver who was beating Short Round? Do Hempstead guards get evil points when they obey the law that says "kill dark elves on sight, regardless of temperment or reason for being there?" Think about it, Iradril is deemed as acting evil in this case for simply not healing a dark elf which tortured his friends that was nearly killed in self defense. What does this speak for the guards who it is their sworn duty to kill on sight every dark elf they spot? Does that make all Hempsteadians "evil" for not standing up, drawing their weapons and facing down the guards to protect the dark elf? If you do nothing while you see a guard kill somebody on sight who you've seen do nothing wrong, its not considered evil, and yet if you simply dont heal somebody who was just seen by you torturing your friend and who had a city of like-minded dark elves nearby who would kill you and your friends for sheer pleasure, is it really evil just to simply do nothing and let them die? Furthermore, they were on a somewhat clandenstine operation. In order to save their country and possibly the free world, they need to infiltrate this place. What about the FBI man who wears a wire and witnesses a mob shooting? He could either try to do his job gathering evidence and take down this murdering mob boss and his entire organization so they wont be able to kill again, or he could blow his cover and immediately start performing first aid on the informant they just shot. How long do you think he would live after that? Will he suffer a loss of his soul in simply not getting himself killed for the ill-concieved sake of kneejerk emotional morality? Does this make every protaganist in a John Woo film... evil? These people were on a mission trying to save lives and potentially the world. An evil evil dark elf who we are told constantly should be killed on sight for all that is good got killed only after showing her obvious foul temperment and intent to cause suffering to perfect strangers. If refusing to heal this dark elf was an evil act, then I would charge much of the same to every Lucindite who refuses to raise or heal a Toranite, and every Voraxian who would refuse to heal a Grandite from near death. The only possible way I could see Iradril as being evil in this instance were if he was unsatisfied with simply letting the evil, vile, abusive dark elf die, and were to heal her back simply to torture her for hours on end, or at least defile her body. If he simply took no action, and didnt even try to finish the job, then he acted in this case with more compassion and mercy than the Hempstead guards or any member of the Mistonian Military would have done. Are the latter two groups then officially... "evil"? In my opinion, only a VERY diehard fanatic follower of Azatta or Aeriden would see evil here, and they are the absolute extremes of good to the point of martyrdom. When clergy of LG Vorax would gladly "put her out of her misery", a Lucindite would shrug and move on, and Captain Trent, the bastion of goodness with a heart of gold (or so his description says) would do far worse, then I would compare all of these to Iradril and conclude that this was no evil act. It was the act of a person with above a 6 intelligence score who didnt want to blow his whole mission and get his entire party killed out of fanatical moralist protest. Now if there was something in his emote like he laughed coldy or kicked the body as it bled to death, that is evil RP. I didnt see any of that in the logs. Now I know evil. Gloom would have bound her up, healed her and sold her to Kartharian pleasure slavers or made her join a deep dwarven city's chain gang mining salt for the next 800 years... or if he took it personally would have tortured her until she begged Sulterio for mercy then laughed "Mercy? Sulterio has no mercy!" and killed her anyway with a terrifyied expression on her face. Grovel would have cut off her arms and legs, eaten them, fed the rest back to her so she could taste how yummy dark elves were, and tortured her over the course of several years to teach him elven while she was chained to a wall in some remote cavern, feeding her little more than tube grubs and moldy water for sustainance. THATS evil. Bjorn would have probably just shrugged and let her be, Earl would have probably finished the job and punted her head over the walls to send a message to the rest, Kor would have probably eaten her, but more out of hunger and practicality than out of spite, and Farros would have probably healed her back, but only to ransom her to the highest bidder. Dark elves are evil, pity them not. They seriously are the kinds of people that will slaughter a surfacer's baby in the crib just because their bored, and murder their own parents in order to advance in political stature. If they weren't then their alignments wouldnt be so restricted when making them! __________________ Killed By: Guard of Bloodstone - Tiefling Sorceress Killed On: 2005-12-22 01:17:16 Killed At: Stone Remember Novlar the 1st, 1393... Every Beryl gnome shall be avenged! Last edited by lonnarin : 09-23-08 at 01:32 PM.