[stormspirit]

There are so many things in all of this that are simple misconceptions.

1) a)Harlas bought in no epic help, he was Pmed by new players asking if they could attend. He never offered nor made a step towards "bringing in epic gm help to solve the quest." The pm was sent due to this particular quest being at a very early hour in the morning and a lack of desire to get to a quest somewhere on central at that hour to find out that going was impossible. Harlas simply responded with conditions of attendance. There is nothing wrong with that at all in my view, he did as he thought was right under the circumstances,
b)Not sure what people see our role as when we run quests to be honest. As a Gm we do not exist to make sure you solve quests, in actual fact I would assume Harlas is much like Pan or myself in this regard....it is a possibility you will fail. Perhaps as a Gm we like to see happy players who are successful..yet that wont stop incorrect actions leading to failure. Gms arent there to brig in help or insure that you succeed. We are there simply to offer a quest and allow people to enjoy the added diversity and challenge available in new situations and environments that only gm/player interaction can present.

2)Odd how the post quest discussion there was the insinuation that epics were lazy (funnily epics tend no to become epic if they are lazy). This thread points to them being rather dominating, imposing and of a take control nature. In the end you people need to look at what they want from the characters who yes tend to lead from an excess of experience on quests. However under these criteria epics face a condemned if they do or they dont process as if they take an active role they are dominating a quest, if they sit back in more support roles we become lazy and people point at us resting on our laurels.

3) The level spread was not that great, the two additional high levels didnt add a great deal in the range of upper level. There were other epics on the quest, and some who are verging. Not sure how it was that two more made a huge difference. Perhaps the two more just covered more skillsets and that was not pleasant to those who previously dominated in said skillsets. Unfortunately layonara like RL tends to always hold someone better at something than you are...and that applies to all including myself.

4)On the few opinions that were given, there is little need to know the details since they were simply logical conclusions drawn from who is good at what, with the disclaimer attached "I have no stake in this so the choice is yours" Not sure what more people want. You dont want an opinion given on the most logical way to do things from another view? If thats the case then there is little point being there in any way or form. I, Pan...indeed almost every person to ever go on a quest does not go to sit like a clam in a corner. As a Gm I could and would never expect that and on the rare occasions that I do get that I find that the lack of engagement is rather dissappointing. Regardless of that Fenrir explained what had gone before in a brief entirety, so thanks and congratulations for him for dealing with additions in a constructive manner.

Long and short there are several ways of dealing with new people attending any running event, of course the preferred way for most who run events is to integrate them, explain past events and let them take a role in what is to come. I have lost track of the number of times I have reiterated past sessions to new players or sat as a Gm for a good hour while listening to new players having events explained to them. Epic or not shouldnt matter, in my view I tend to be overjoyed as a player to see epics turn up. Often diversity of experience will help with solutions that I, or others dont see. IC im not sure how you could argue any different. If well known people who had solved a plethora of problems turned up to help I would be more than welcoming. Aferall anything that increases the chances of success must be a good thing in the end.

Secondly you can of course tell them they are not welcome, an event that as a Gm I havent yet seen and hope I never have to deal with. The event when open is exactly that, open and able to be added to at Gm discretion. I understand that this event was in some manner seen as closed yet harlas has explained that as a misunderstanding so the judgement call once more sits in the hands of the eventowner. Angels Tear is the same, I use my own discretion when I open and close it and dont seek input from everyone when I do so. Turning people away however is an option and would need to be dealt with in character at the time.

We have of course the last scenario here wherein one nor two happened, excluding the rare exceptions of course. There was no move to tell the new players to leave, nor was there much of an attempt to integrate them into the party and make the event enjoyable for all. The second could have easily been done, the first even simpler though it would have of course had IC ramifications. I dont see why we need to be so possessive of quests IF the Gm has deemed them open.