Layonara - View Single Post - A few points of criticism and a last farewell

Acacea · 06-20-06, 01:16 AM

I don't have personally have any problems voicing criticisim. It makes things better, especially when it is talked about person-to-person and not flame-to-public. However, I do get a little tired of the "out the door explosion" kind of attitude that is popular no matter what community you're talking about, where you save up all of the hate and arguments to bash a place you know you're not coming back to. It's clearly not because you want the world to be better--you're leaving it, and saved it all for when you do. It's the last kick in the nads before counting on a counter-kick to get you out the door, and that's a little irritating. Like the itch you can't scratch because your leg is in a cast or something...you can't correct the vague "people say" outlook, especially when it's said on the way out. I have friends that share this strange idea of "that's really going to help," but would rather not jump on the bandwagon before knowing exactly what is going on. I don't though, think that it is bannable. [*]I think that even things like this are clear signs of real problems, and that saying "that's nice, see you later," does not in any way help them, nor does the constant reminder that people do this for free. Yes, they do, yes, most of us appreciate that. But if things can be improved with clarification, please do so. [*]I can't really comment on the balance of classes I have not played, but do wonder why, if the summons are so largely broken (a statement that I don't agree with), there is not more discussion of it on the forums? I've seen other things get balanced with "a tiny push in this direction... too far, push that way... too far again," though, which seems to get responded to with angry people no matter what is done with it, whose suggestions are mostly (not always) biased towards pushing it further in the direction that would most benefit them in some (maybe) unconscious manner. [*]There are things I do feel need working on, some of which will not be touched for the moment, and others that are put way down on the priority list. Since I'm not the one doing them, I would rather that the things they are working on get completed, instead of leaving a trail of half-finished ones as they jump from project to project depending on what the loudest people think is the most important at the time. Complete projects tend to be a lot more beneficial than than constantly changing ideas, however cool the ideas are. Unfortunately. [*]Some things are better kept 'secret' and make no sense to be widely available. I'm not sure why things like the Krashin story are not available for the public at the moment; I'd prefer people had a lot to work with for backgrounds. It also seems like it would ease some of the frustration of contribution. If say, Karana decided that there simply wasn't enough background available and decided to write some up, the answer is that it is already done, you just can't use it... which is frustrating. I assume it's just hard to find the time for whatever needs to be done to include it. Maybe a better process should be introduced for how things become available and when. [*]Heh... not sure why you would taint the rest of your arguments with something as silly as flaming the color of someone's font. It kind of brings all your other points to that level, making them equally as unimportant. Who cares what someone's favorite font and color is, honestly? It drives home the idea that this is not anything that is asking to be solved, just a hit-and-run. [*]Something that is almost always forgotten when reacting, is that on any good quest, player initiative is rewarded. If you have resources available to you, then you are welcome to use them within the context of the setting. Please, for future questers, if you see someone taking initiative and you don't like it, do it yourself instead of watching someone else and then whispering later. If Harlas ran an excruciatingly long and involved series which of course would be widely attended by the GMT crowd, and at the end of it gave some kind of RP reward to the people who regularly attended and put the most into it, is that really a bad thing? I think it's cool that their effort is rewarded, and no one would think anything of it. If, on the next one of his quests, still attended by his regulars (which is a good thing and I doubt anyone would say otherwise in this case), one of the people, when presented with a difficult situation said, "Wait. I may have an idea..." and used what was given to them to aid their predicament, does that mean that it was the only way to accomplish it? Absolutely not, it is just a good player making use of the resources available to him. As in any good quest, if you want to do something, try it. If Tard Yard (sorry, couldn't resist :P) got some ring or another with some property or another on Aragwen's quest and thought of some genius way to use it in a different quest to help the party, that is a Good Thing. Such is the case with Eldarwen, who has resources available to her that were rewards for a huge amount of effort and involvement, which she puts to use for progression instead of just flashing it around like a fancy title. If someone for some IN CHARACTER reason does not want to do it that way, and it's not just spite towards a good solution, then bring it up and what you would see done instead. I never see that. I just hear follow-the-leader complaints from people who can't or won't lead, who can't or won't contribute even something as small as a good attitude. I have seen Eldarwen step aside to let other people move, and see no one do so. With my experience in questing with her, she seems invariably targetted as BOTH someone who does everything, and someone who does nothing, in turn, sometimes about the same incident. It makes no sense and stems from bad feelings and IC actions that do not get addressed. At the end of the last Dawn of Ages session, a character made repeated comments about wanting to keep some forbidden-type diamonds (long story, on pain of death though), chisel some off the body of something we were trying to save at the time, keep the magic armor, etc and just in general being in character and wanting material profit. After restoring someone to his rightful self and all that, we were told that he wanted to do something for us, so the whole point of the mission was brought up and agreed to. Success essentially achieved at that point. The character above asked the guy what would happen to the diamonds, of course, and was told basically "No." with a small laugh. All perfectly in character. Mine said she would rather have a seashell for a keepsake anyway, with a nod from some others, and after a moment's thought, the little mer-guy dived down and came back with a personal kind of shell for everyone in the party, giving them one by one with the reason it was chosen. When he got to the guy who had often said something similar to "I'm going to get out of here and have nothing to show for it," he was tossed a simple beach conch and told to seek value within himself before around him and another type of "moral of the story" kind of comment. It was classic and I think most people saw that coming a mile away. It was all in character and all made perfect sense, and yet based on previous experience I can see the guy going to all his friends and complaining that the DM is out for him personally and favors x member of the party... Not because I think the player is such a huge jerk, just because it seems to happen all the time that I wouldn't really be surprised. IC actions = IC consequences and rewards. Something that also leads to grumbling on their quests is that critical failures are rewarded along with critical successes. Frequenters of Pan and Storm quests fear the 1's because something is about to go horribly wrong, and rejoice at 20's because something will invariably go perfectly their way, even if the DM had not planned for something to happen, because no very good or very bad roll ever goes unrewarded or unpunished. People sometimes forget dice rolls and see the result of a character's 20 and complain that someone else is being catered to. Reventage rolled a 20+7x on spellcraft on the last session of Angel's Tear, and basically shut down the whole central mechanism of what they were working on with a Look.

His roll was hidden, so maybe someone now feels that Storm was just favoring Rev, and will tell a friend who will tell his friend who will leave and post a giant rant on the way, because that's how stupid rumors get started, when often a simple question would have clarified it. I rolled a 20+3x on a search check to find the easiest way down a nasty climb for my character, and so made the descent enormously easier for her than someone else who would try. The ease with which Acacea made it down combined with the scream of pain from someone else biting it led to tells on "why did one barely make it and it was so easy for her?" At least they asked, so I could simply explain the effort she had made to research the climb first, instead of using something as silly as that to reinforce a favoritism rumor. It is a little awkward to put a lot of time and devotion to attending your favorite series and then have the popular rumor going around that they only exist to level up someone else, and are only solveable by someone else. Some people enjoy them for their stories and roleplay and would continue to attend every session regardless of XP or 'material' reward, and that would not be the case if it was just a prop ladder for someone else to climb. There is an enormous amount of detail and work in them and some people genuinely appreciate that and put in the time for it. You get back what you put in, and sometimes just using your head and interacting with each other well can help a more favorable outcome. [*]As for the twins, I was glad to see the huge story and effort involved in the whole history that had happened with them, rewarded. People were concerned with a precedent, but I prefer one and hope that long standing players who have contributed to the community would also have their characters reviewed if somehow the circumstances were repeated. They are rarely played, probably because of the uproar they caused and the attention that came from it, and when they are they are just PCs interacting with others as they are and without any special powers or rewards. [*]I do think there are problems within the GM team, some bigger than others, and have come to that conclusion with personal experience, after putting my opinion on hold despite the opinions of even friends, because I prefer to form my own. I also think that there are problems within the community, again with personal experience despite others trying to decide for me. I think that they are going to exist wherever you go, and unfortunately the further you dig, the more you're going to find. Drama seems to reside everywhere, but when concrete problems come up, it's a Good Thing when they can actually be discussed. I'm mostly content to look for said concrete problems that can be addressed, rather than the kind whose foundations are only cemented with the magical solidifying ties of "They say." (Edit for typo because I'm obsessive)

06-20-06, 01:16 AM	#7
Acacea Gamemaster Characters Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 2,329 Thanks: 122 Thanked 578 Times in 282 Posts	Re: A few points of criticism and a last farewell I don't have personally have any problems voicing criticisim. It makes things better, especially when it is talked about person-to-person and not flame-to-public. However, I do get a little tired of the "out the door explosion" kind of attitude that is popular no matter what community you're talking about, where you save up all of the hate and arguments to bash a place you know you're not coming back to. It's clearly not because you want the world to be better--you're leaving it, and saved it all for when you do. It's the last kick in the nads before counting on a counter-kick to get you out the door, and that's a little irritating. Like the itch you can't scratch because your leg is in a cast or something...you can't correct the vague "people say" outlook, especially when it's said on the way out. I have friends that share this strange idea of "that's really going to help," but would rather not jump on the bandwagon before knowing exactly what is going on. I don't though, think that it is bannable. []I think that even things like this are clear signs of real problems, and that saying "that's nice, see you later," does not in any way help them, nor does the constant reminder that people do this for free. Yes, they do, yes, most of us appreciate that. But if things can be improved with clarification, please do so. []I can't really comment on the balance of classes I have not played, but do wonder why, if the summons are so largely broken (a statement that I don't agree with), there is not more discussion of it on the forums? I've seen other things get balanced with "a tiny push in this direction... too far, push that way... too far again," though, which seems to get responded to with angry people no matter what is done with it, whose suggestions are mostly (not always) biased towards pushing it further in the direction that would most benefit them in some (maybe) unconscious manner. []There are things I do feel need working on, some of which will not be touched for the moment, and others that are put way down on the priority list. Since I'm not the one doing them, I would rather that the things they are working on get completed, instead of leaving a trail of half-finished ones as they jump from project to project depending on what the loudest people think is the most important at the time. Complete projects tend to be a lot more beneficial than than constantly changing ideas, however cool the ideas are. Unfortunately. []Some things are better kept 'secret' and make no sense to be widely available. I'm not sure why things like the Krashin story are not available for the public at the moment; I'd prefer people had a lot to work with for backgrounds. It also seems like it would ease some of the frustration of contribution. If say, Karana decided that there simply wasn't enough background available and decided to write some up, the answer is that it is already done, you just can't use it... which is frustrating. I assume it's just hard to find the time for whatever needs to be done to include it. Maybe a better process should be introduced for how things become available and when. []Heh... not sure why you would taint the rest of your arguments with something as silly as flaming the color of someone's font. It kind of brings all your other points to that level, making them equally as unimportant. Who cares what someone's favorite font and color is, honestly? It drives home the idea that this is not anything that is asking to be solved, just a hit-and-run. []Something that is almost always forgotten when reacting, is that on any good quest, player initiative is rewarded. If you have resources available to you, then you are welcome to use them within the context of the setting. Please, for future questers, if you see someone taking initiative and you don't like it, do it yourself instead of watching someone else and then whispering later. If Harlas ran an excruciatingly long and involved series which of course would be widely attended by the GMT crowd, and at the end of it gave some kind of RP reward to the people who regularly attended and put the most into it, is that really a bad thing? I think it's cool that their effort is rewarded, and no one would think anything of it. If, on the next one of his quests, still attended by his regulars (which is a good thing and I doubt anyone would say otherwise in this case), one of the people, when presented with a difficult situation said, "Wait. I may have an idea..." and used what was given to them to aid their predicament, does that mean that it was the only way to accomplish it? Absolutely not, it is just a good player making use of the resources available to him. As in any good quest, if you want to do something, try it. If Tard Yard (sorry, couldn't resist :P) got some ring or another with some property or another on Aragwen's quest and thought of some genius way to use it in a different quest to help the party, that is a Good Thing. Such is the case with Eldarwen, who has resources available to her that were rewards for a huge amount of effort and involvement, which she puts to use for progression instead of just flashing it around like a fancy title. If someone for some IN CHARACTER reason does not want to do it that way, and it's not just spite towards a good solution, then bring it up and what you would see done instead. I never see that. I just hear follow-the-leader complaints from people who can't or won't lead, who can't or won't contribute even something as small as a good attitude. I have seen Eldarwen step aside to let other people move, and see no one do so. With my experience in questing with her, she seems invariably targetted as BOTH someone who does everything, and someone who does nothing, in turn, sometimes about the same incident. It makes no sense and stems from bad feelings and IC actions that do not get addressed. At the end of the last Dawn of Ages session, a character made repeated comments about wanting to keep some forbidden-type diamonds (long story, on pain of death though), chisel some off the body of something we were trying to save at the time, keep the magic armor, etc and just in general being in character and wanting material profit. After restoring someone to his rightful self and all that, we were told that he wanted to do something for us, so the whole point of the mission was brought up and agreed to. Success essentially achieved at that point. The character above asked the guy what would happen to the diamonds, of course, and was told basically "No." with a small laugh. All perfectly in character. Mine said she would rather have a seashell for a keepsake anyway, with a nod from some others, and after a moment's thought, the little mer-guy dived down and came back with a personal kind of shell for everyone in the party, giving them one by one with the reason it was chosen. When he got to the guy who had often said something similar to "I'm going to get out of here and have nothing to show for it," he was tossed a simple beach conch and told to seek value within himself before around him and another type of "moral of the story" kind of comment. It was classic and I think most people saw that coming a mile away. It was all in character and all made perfect sense, and yet based on previous experience I can see the guy going to all his friends and complaining that the DM is out for him personally and favors x member of the party... Not because I think the player is such a huge jerk, just because it seems to happen all the time that I wouldn't really be surprised. IC actions = IC consequences and rewards. Something that also leads to grumbling on their quests is that critical failures are rewarded along with critical successes. Frequenters of Pan and Storm quests fear the 1's because something is about to go horribly wrong, and rejoice at 20's because something will invariably go perfectly their way, even if the DM had not planned for something to happen, because no very good or very bad roll ever goes unrewarded or unpunished. People sometimes forget dice rolls and see the result of a character's 20 and complain that someone else is being catered to. Reventage rolled a 20+7x on spellcraft on the last session of Angel's Tear, and basically shut down the whole central mechanism of what they were working on with a Look. His roll was hidden, so maybe someone now feels that Storm was just favoring Rev, and will tell a friend who will tell his friend who will leave and post a giant rant on the way, because that's how stupid rumors get started, when often a simple question would have clarified it. I rolled a 20+3x on a search check to find the easiest way down a nasty climb for my character, and so made the descent enormously easier for her than someone else who would try. The ease with which Acacea made it down combined with the scream of pain from someone else biting it led to tells on "why did one barely make it and it was so easy for her?" At least they asked, so I could simply explain the effort she had made to research the climb first, instead of using something as silly as that to reinforce a favoritism rumor. It is a little awkward to put a lot of time and devotion to attending your favorite series and then have the popular rumor going around that they only exist to level up someone else, and are only solveable by someone else. Some people enjoy them for their stories and roleplay and would continue to attend every session regardless of XP or 'material' reward, and that would not be the case if it was just a prop ladder for someone else to climb. There is an enormous amount of detail and work in them and some people genuinely appreciate that and put in the time for it. You get back what you put in, and sometimes just using your head and interacting with each other well can help a more favorable outcome. []As for the twins, I was glad to see the huge story and effort involved in the whole history that had happened with them, rewarded. People were concerned with a precedent, but I prefer one and hope that long standing players who have contributed to the community would also have their characters reviewed if somehow the circumstances were repeated. They are rarely played, probably because of the uproar they caused and the attention that came from it, and when they are they are just PCs interacting with others as they are and without any special powers or rewards. []I do think there are problems within the GM team, some bigger than others, and have come to that conclusion with personal experience, after putting my opinion on hold despite the opinions of even friends, because I prefer to form my own. I also think that there are problems within the community, again with personal experience despite others trying to decide for me. I think that they are going to exist wherever you go, and unfortunately the further you dig, the more you're going to find. Drama seems to reside everywhere, but when concrete problems come up, it's a Good Thing when they can actually be discussed. I'm mostly content to look for said concrete problems that can be addressed, rather than the kind whose foundations are only cemented with the magical solidifying ties of "They say." (Edit for typo because I'm obsessive)