Vile racist dwarfs

[Gunther]

Heh. This has come up twice in the past couple weeks or so and I've never seen it before, so I thought I'd ask....

Dwarves seem to be detecting that Gunther is a halfgiant and responding accordingly. I dont have a problem with their reaction, but how exactly are they supposedly so insightful? The concept that they spend their lives fighting giants and can therefore automatically detect their blood, even diluted, doesnt seem practical. I'll readily admist that I havent checked lore on dwarves (and I will do so asap), but I have a hard time imagining that such a thing is an automatic check.

I am adverse to PvP, but this is heading in that direction, and I'd as soon get some direction on this prior to it going that far.

Thanks

[LynnJuniper]

Uh...does Gunther notice how big he is?

is going off of the looks the NWN game gives metagaming? Could you be considered just a really big guy?

So yeah! More questions for clarification!

[Gunther]

Actually, under the halfgiant heading in the handbook, its states that halfgiants can be taken for human barbarians for their large stocky build. Or something like that.

Halfgiants are only 6'6 to 8'. Admittedly, anyone 8' would really stand out, but humans have grown that big. Perhaps due to acromegaly, or whatever that condition is, but nonetheless, not impossible.

I cant change Gunther's avatar, and wouldnt want to, but this does seem to border on metagaming. Thanks for the word I was looking for.

I also find it ironic that for 1.5 years, nobody cared that Gunther was a halfgiant, then PvP came out and this issue has appeared.

[MJZ]

I should think people could be a little more discreet about it - give your character suspicious, appraising looks, unless they have had many dealings with half-giants. A character of mine has thought a half-giant was simply a very large human, it depends a lot on the appearance and comportment of the half-giant in question, I'd say.

It shouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume that there is some giant blood in there for those in the know, but if every dwarf you come across is doing it... I'd agree that it's being excessive.

[Interia_Discordius]

I'm not sure if it's as much as the PvP thing that came out that made people more racist against monstrous races, but moreso a recent discussion that questioned about how to treat them. That and, Port Hempstead themselves have made some decision not to treat them very kindly, or something like that...Could be influenced by that.

Although, characters who didn't care before who care now without a seemingly good reason is sort of strange

[Pen N Popper]

I disagree. Why would an enormous man not be considered immediately to have giant blood in him? His avatar is huge, his CHA is probably shockingly low, and his STR insanely high (I'm only guessing on those stats). With monstrous race comes monstrous RP. Some races can hide themselves beneath the veil of hoods, giants would probably stand out like a sore thumb.

The one exception I would agree with would be if the halfgiant's char submission indicated human proportions and their stats reflected that initial starting stamina.

Why should drow get all the (un)love?

:-)

[Kindo]

Originally Posted by Pen N Popper

I disagree. Why would an enormous man not be considered immediately to have giant blood in him? His avatar is huge, his CHA is probably shockingly low, and his STR insanely high (I'm only guessing on those stats). With monstrous race comes monstrous RP. Some races can hide themselves beneath the veil of hoods, giants would probably stand out like a sore thumb.

The one exception I would agree with would be if the halfgiant's char submission indicated human proportions and their stats reflected that initial starting stamina.

Why should drow get all the (un)love?

:-)

I'm with you on this one, Pen. If a Half-Giant differs in any way, and somehow appear more human than not, that should either be apparent from the description that people can examine, or "emoted" as you are approached. Otherwise it is impossible for anyone to know exactly how you look, assuming it is different from how a Half-Giant usually looks, of course. But yes, if you are just any run-of-the-mill Half-Giant (appearance-wise), you should definitely expect people to notice that. You are huge, after all. And ugly. Huge and ugly. Heh, no offence.

[MJZ]

Haha well said, Pen - that's what I meant about it depending on the appearance of the said half-giant, and such. Character descriptions, people!

I still say that shouting out "half giant!!" on sight is a bit excessive for every dwarf or such to be doing. Would it be supremely easy to tell a half-giant apart from say, a half-ogre, unless you had seen more than one specimen of each type? I don't think I would be able to do it on immediate sight.. Especially if the PC is decked out in full armor, which a few are.

I agree with you that a half-giant would definitely not blend in with the crowd. I just think a little more RP and discretion could be in order. Like, emoting your character's suspicion before you draw the conclusion. Just to add some thought process and padding in there, if the half-giant isn't 8', drooling, and wearing a loincloth.

[Gunther]

Alright. Lets go off of the actual halfgiant description before we go too far amok.....

....Halfgiants are usually widely accepted among humans....

Not sure what that means to everyone else. To me it means that they are not lumped in with goblins and orcs. Perhaps not so much because they have the appearance of a normal human, but because they normally are raised by humans, in human dominated areas.

I have a good friend of mine thats 6'5", 300 pounds. Yes, I do call him sasquatch. My boss is also 6'6", 400 pounds (I think probably a bit more actually). It isnt unheard of. People grow that big without being monsters. Though at times, my boss, is indeed, a monster.

Where everybody got this idea that halfgiants are monsters and should be treated as such is beyond me. But this is about dwarves, not humans or acceptance in communities.

By the way, Gunther wears full plate and a helmet at all times. His CHA is 8 (low, but not run away screaming in fear), his str is 32 (with magic items).

Anyway....automatic detection by dwarves...is this a racial ability?

[jrizz]

half giant, half ogre, half orc it should be hard to tell them apart unless you are say a ranger that has studied how to fight giants, or a Druid that well just know those kind of things, or a wizard that has studied for many years, or a Bard that know the lore of the land and has traveled the world, or a adventurer that has traveled with some of their kind.... oops that is almost everyone LOL

[gilshem ironstone]

First off, not only are half-giants big, they are half-giant. They will most certainly have features similar to their giant parent as well as their human, so it is a slightly different case then a human who is very tall and very heavy.

Second, dwarves have combat training against giants, often, although not always, compete with them for dominance in their homes and often, though again not always, have a long history of animosity to giants. So for them to know as much about giant apprearance as a ranger or bard is not too much of a stretch I think.

Even amongst humans it is relatively easyt to spot someone who is say, half-japanese, half-english. So I think it would become easier when the race being bred with the human is a giant.

As always there are a thousand interesting and plausible exceptions to the rule. But generally I would have no problem spotting that a half-giant was half-something. And when confronted in the past I would make whatever call about their mixed heritage that I felt like a the moment, and often be wrong.

[Gunther]

Not to kick this dead horse any further......but please, please, please actually read the PH bit on halfgiants before lumping them in with monstrous races. Thats all I ask (and its going further off topic).

According to the PH...."Halfgiants as a general rule tend to get along well with both their parent races, and have better relations with both than say, half-elves."

Why this assumption that halfgiants are monsters when the above clearly states otherwise? My understanding of the above is that halfgiants are more readily accepted than halfelves. Are halfelves being booted out of Hempstead and other communities?

[jrizz]

not monsters but monstrous races their is a dif.

[Honora]

At least some of this is a result of the alignments being changed. The LORE entry is pre-"monsterous" and at that time of course you could be a LG half-giant if you wished, where as now even LN is forbidden as a starting alignment. So the "new" racial ability would seem to be an out of game reaction carried in game regarding the change in base attitude.

My 2 True.

[Witch Hunter]

Don't feel bad, they're just jealous of how big you are.

[Gunther]

I stated in the first paragraph of my last post...monstrous races....

However, that doesnt answer the question about how halfgiants are more accepted than halfelves, but are now regarded as outcasts?

Is there something that I missed?

Second of all, you have a good point in that you would think there would be racial characteristics passed on to the halfgiant. And there are, it states that halfgiants are hairless (weird, but ok). And they have a large forehead. And that they can pass as a barbarian (I assume that means human barbarian and that they can pass as a human).

Thats it. No mention of pointy ears like an elf or halfelf, no other distinguishing characteristics.

So, which would be more commonplace? A very large human, or the automatic assumption it must be a halfgiant, because its big.

[miltonyorkcastle]

I'm with you Gunther, that given their descriptions, half-giants would be so easily detectable, especially with armor and helm equipped. Perhaps given the nature of a world where giants are prevalent, the first assumption is giant ancestry rather than a fluke of genetics (genetics being a concept whcih most, if any, people on Layo would not be familiar with). Still, this doesn't adress their common acceptance being high, even if it says nothing of how races other than humans and giants treat them. So I share your worry, Gunther, that something more subjective, even OOC, may be playng a factor in your character's sudden "persecution." Case and point, I have recently decided to display the color of my character's skin, which happens to be blue. Very blue. I have received quite a few shocked faces, responses, and head turnings, but strangely, not a single person has directly challenged or raised the question of race in-character to Steel. Apparently, everyone loves blue people because.... well, they're blue... and don't they have some sort of band where they play drums on trashcans and have cool lighting effects, and... err, wait... Yeah. Why would a creature like a half-giant, that is apparently less likely to show off significant "abnormal" qualities than even a half-orc be challenged when there are so many other more obvious cases (like drow, as has been mentioned) which are over-looked?

And no, unless the dwarf has the "scent" feat (and even then, it might be questionable), no dwarf can automatically smell, sense, or in any way definitely detect the blood of a giant coursing through someone's veins (particularly since Layo doesn't allow for DNA testing and such, though I might give that some amount of divination might offer an answer, such a practice is not in the ability of the common dwarf).

A dwarf might suspect giant heritage, from the couple of apparent differences from a "normal" human, but unless he just decided to act on his assumption (or what someone else told him, which falls under assumption, as it's a secondary source), or Gunther told the dwarf himself, the dwarf has no justification in challenging Gunther on the grounds that he's a half-giant.

[darkstorme]

To me, this reads that the description ought to be changed. I don't know that I've ever seen a half-giant who really fits the "gentle giant" description, so acceptance is way less likely than being ostracized.

More to the point, "more likely to be accepted than half-elves" always struck me to mean in terms of the kind of places where a violent, huge human would be accepted. Half-elves are strange to either race, regardless of the community in which they live. But a half-giant at a tea party would always be an oddity, whether or not a more barbaric society accepts them.