Layonara policy questions and discussion

[Dorganath]

Use this thread to discuss and ask about Layonara's rules and policies.

For convenience:
http://forums.layonara.com/layonara-...il-2009-a.html

[jrizz]

Well let me be first to say thank you for taking the time to revamp these policies.

Next I have one question about Graceful Pleas. Does this mean that a player can go back over old requests that were turned down for whatever reason and ask for them to be approved as a Graceful Plea? Of course knowing that there are only three such requests allowed per PC.

[orth]

Originally Posted by jrizz

Well let me be first to say thank you for taking the time to revamp these policies.

Next I have one question about Graceful Pleas. Does this mean that a player can go back over old requests that were turned down for whatever reason and ask for them to be approved as a Graceful Plea? Of course knowing that there are only three such requests allowed per PC.

Yes sir.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Does this mean we could ask to get a SS back, even if standard policy would not allow it, at the cost of a GP?

[Link092]

Aasimars and teiflings are no longer playable races period? (as in, they are not in the same perdicament as Half-critters?)

[Dorganath]

Originally Posted by ShiffDrgnhrt

Does this mean we could ask to get a SS back, even if standard policy would not allow it, at the cost of a GP?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Link092

Aasimars and teiflings are no longer playable races period? (as in, they are not in the same perdicament as Half-critters?)

They are no longer submittable. People with Aasimar and Tiefling characters may continue to play them.

[orth]

Originally Posted by ShiffDrgnhrt

Does this mean we could ask to get a SS back, even if standard policy would not allow it, at the cost of a GP?

Yes, most legitimate excuses that before could not be corroborated and thus had to be denied can now have a plea used to have the strand returned. It could be that your power went out or your 3 year old stole your mouse or you had to run to the door...All acceptable usages of pleas to have strands returned. But for example "I want my strand back because I shouldn't have challenged that dragon." would not be an acceptable plea.

[Hellblazer]

When will we be able to use the 3 dt free (with pleas of course)?

[Carillon]

Whenever you like, really. These changes are effective immediately.

[Hellblazer]

Pleas vs creation alignment:

Can one be used to reverse a decision about alignment that was denied at creation?

[jrizz]

I hope I did those right thanks guys!

[Rowana]

Originally Posted by Hellblazer

Pleas vs creation alignment:

Can one be used to reverse a decision about alignment that was denied at creation?

The approval process of characters remains ultimately in the hands of the CA staff. Graceful pleas cannot be used to override their decisions regarding what is approvable or not. You will notice that the Graceful Pleas are only usable in the grievance forum, and that should be a fairly good indicator of what they can be used on and what they cannot.

~row

[Hellblazer]

Ah hadn't seen that part, thank row.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Originally Posted by orth

Yes, most legitimate excuses that before could not be corroborated and thus had to be denied can now have a plea used to have the strand returned. It could be that your power went out or your 3 year old stole your mouse or you had to run to the door...All acceptable usages of pleas to have strands returned. But for example "I want my strand back because I shouldn't have challenged that dragon." would not be an acceptable plea.

So asking for the SS back Tyra lost because she was dazed last night doesn't count? *grins and hides*

[Aerimor]

Would like to ask. Can you plea for a wizard to become a specialist when they are a generalist.

Only grievance would be that when the character was made the player was too unfamiliar with the speciality restrictions with Layo and didn't want to hamstring the character before it even got going. So user ignorance/fear was the only things that prevented it from happening. Said character to my knowledge has not cast one spell from the school that would be prohibited in 8ish levels and the speciality school of choice would fit his character.

On a related question. Can a CDQ be taken for the same effects. Can a character have a CDQ run to demonstrate their pursuit, focus and dedication now forming for one school at the exclusion of its oppostie? I asked one or two DM's they had opinions but did nto feel comfortable with a final answer. And said I should ask on the boards. So I figured might as well tie both these up in one post.

Thank you kindly,
~D

[Falonthas]

wait where is the link to this nice thing
and does that mean i can revive my feral?

[Falonthas]

hmmm after reading it looks very nice and all, but drogo didnt have fancy things to pay for favors, what do you do then
?

the only thing he had special was from the keeper and hed rather be dead then give those up

[Dorganath]

Read closer.

The player will be given a choice between one of the following:

1. The character may sacrifice one or more magic or enchanted items with a combined lens value of at least 100,000 True, and sacrifice XP equivalent to 2 character levels (with resulting loss of character levels). This reduction will put the character at the same relative place between levels, based on the XP difference between levels. For example, if the character is half way between level 22 and 23 when this option is exercised, the character will be half way between levels 20 and 21 after the reduction is made. The item(s) sacrificed in this option must be on the PC at the time of death.
2. The character may sacrifice XP equivalent to 5 character levels (with resulting loss of character levels). This reduction will put the character at the same relative place between levels, based on the XP difference between levels. For example, if the character is half way between level 22 and 23 when this option is exercised, the character will be half way between levels 17 and 18 after the reduction is made.

[Falonthas]

ahh ok
well i went to check drogo anyhow and now hes been wiped from lore to even think about it
so no matter but thanks dorg

[Masterjack]

First off I would like to say thanks for the changes. The one question I have is about the last soul strand returned that requires 2 levels of exp and 100,000 true in items from your person. The value of the items will be determined how? The reason I ask is that Layo prices are different then the NWN prices you get from the lens.

[Dorganath]

Read closer.

The player will be given a choice between one of the following:

1. The character may sacrifice one or more magic or enchanted items with a combined lens value of at least 100,000 True, and sacrifice XP equivalent to 2 character levels (with resulting loss of character levels). This reduction will put the character at the same relative place between levels, based on the XP difference between levels. For example, if the character is half way between level 22 and 23 when this option is exercised, the character will be half way between levels 20 and 21 after the reduction is made. The item(s) sacrificed in this option must be on the PC at the time of death.

(emphasis added)

[Falonthas]

woohoo ok i read and then i had to check and with droppin two level had to change some armor and then has true value

now just to figure out how to write it

[Gulnyr]

Shadowdancer is missing from the list of PrC requirements in the new policy information.

[Rowana]

Originally Posted by Gulnyr

Shadowdancer is missing from the list of PrC requirements in the new policy information.

So it was! Oversight corrected.

~row

[Script Wrecked]

Originally Posted by Falonthas

ahh ok
well i went to check drogo anyhow and now hes been wiped from lore to even think about it
so no matter but thanks dorg

Drogo?

[xiaobeibi]

Will the Purple Dragon of Cormyr PRC be open for submission now? Renamed something like Knight of the Land.

If the Purple Dragon of Cormyr is allowed will paladins be able to freely multiclass with it?

[Lance Stargazer]

I was thinking about that Prestige class myself. And I think that finally the knights of the Wyrm of Rofirein could get a "class" per se.

Just my two cents..

They already are Knights of a Dragon, just switch the purple for golden and there you go.

[Falonthas]

i think i could see a knight right off the bat with this PrC when Erilyn was restored

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Originally Posted by xiaobeibi

Will the Purple Dragon of Cormyr PRC be open for submission now? Renamed something like Knight of the Land.

If the Purple Dragon of Cormyr is allowed will paladins be able to freely multiclass with it?

Well if for reason they do, I really hope they modify the PrC some... It's a bit lacking in skills (Heal as crossclass? WTH?)... Could use a little more umph, and they might need to axe some of the Pre-Reqs for the Class itself...

[minerva]

Originally Posted by Falonthas

i think i could see a knight right off the bat with this PrC when Erilyn was restored

While it sounds attractive, a Knight of Erilyn still would remain something as a WL achievement I think as the lore would not fit for King Briant to be knighting adventurers to be off killing things not in defense of Erilyn. The only current Knight of Erilyn not a NPC is WL Honora who is a councillor to the Knights and holds the title both due to service to the realm (Her WL Quest) and a family connection to the knights.

A reworking of Mistone Scout could however with a CDQ be turned into agents for the kingdom.

[Gulnyr]

Originally Posted by Lance Stargazer

I was thinking about that Prestige class myself. And I think that finally the knights of the Wyrm of Rofirein could get a "class" per se.

Kinda sorta. Maybe. As long as it weren't required that any Knight of the Wyrm character take the class, I couldn't complain. But then, if it isn't going to be required and thus fully and intimately associated with the Knights of the Wyrm, why make it the Knight of the Wyrm PrC?

Instead of a KotW PrC, it seems like it would get better play if it were made part of a specific military training institution of some sort, something nondenominational that hasn't been invented yet.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by Gulnyr

Instead of a KotW PrC, it seems like it would get better play if it were made part of a specific military training institution of some sort, something nondenominational that hasn't been invented yet.

This is probably the track I'd suggest. Things that are overly specific to one denomination, be it a clergy, city, kingdom, class... whatever - these tend to be a poor use of space when the end goal is availability of diversity.

[EdTheKet]

Discussions on the Purple Dragon Knight PRC are under way, stay tuned!

[Dorganath]

In all honesty, I completely missed the addition of the PrC to 1.69, as my attention was focused elsewhere. So on seeing this, I started a discussion in our GM forums.

As Ed said, stay tuned.

[lonnarin]

Originally Posted by Dorganath

In all honesty, I completely missed the addition of the PrC to 1.69, as my attention was focused elsewhere. So on seeing this, I started a discussion in our GM forums.

As Ed said, stay tuned.

Make it into an elite unit of Gold Dragon Knights, the Order of Ozlo. It's only fitting.

A sect of Rofirienite paladins that began during the time of the Dragon-Called. Surely that religion in particular saw this as a miraculous omen! They mourn him as a martyr, and aim to uphold his memory in word and deed.

Leave Red Dragon Disciple for the Pyrtechites.

[Masterjack]

Originally Posted by lonnarin

Make it into an elite unit of Gold Dragon Knights, the Order of Ozlo. It's only fitting.

A sect of Rofirienite paladins that began during the time of the Dragon-Called. Surely that religion in particular saw this as a miraculous omen! They mourn him as a martyr, and aim to uphold his memory in word and deed.

Leave Red Dragon Disciple for the Pyrtechites.

Ya that sounds awesome!

[Dorganath]

Originally Posted by Aerimor

Would like to ask. Can you plea for a wizard to become a specialist when they are a generalist.

Only grievance would be that when the character was made the player was too unfamiliar with the speciality restrictions with Layo and didn't want to hamstring the character before it even got going. So user ignorance/fear was the only things that prevented it from happening. Said character to my knowledge has not cast one spell from the school that would be prohibited in 8ish levels and the speciality school of choice would fit his character.

On a related question. Can a CDQ be taken for the same effects. Can a character have a CDQ run to demonstrate their pursuit, focus and dedication now forming for one school at the exclusion of its oppostie? I asked one or two DM's they had opinions but did nto feel comfortable with a final answer. And said I should ask on the boards. So I figured might as well tie both these up in one post.

Thank you kindly,
~D

Apologies for the delay in response on this. I don't have a solid answer to give as we will still take each rebuild request on a case-by-case basis. The reason for this is simple: The Graceful Plea system is not intended to be an avenue to remake their character entirely because they don't like it now 10, 15, 20 or more levels later. So to prevent a flood of requests of people wishing to start from scratch and re-sculpt their characters with their ideal progression, we'll just need to handle them as they come.

To describe this in another way, there have been requests in the past for re-levels that, while worthy reasons, were past our time and XP thresholds and were therefore denied. With Graceful Pleas, a player could circumvent the normal thresholds if all else was in line.

Graceful Pleas should not be seen as an auto-approval for anything, but rather an optional relaxation of normal requirements.

Anyway, getting back to the specific request above, my suggestion is to make the request, if you wish to pursue this angle. In so doing, we will get all the relevant information needed to decide on your specific case.

[Dorganath]

Because this has come up, and will probably come up again, I have added the following under the Special note regarding the loss of a character's final Soul Strand:

For the purposes of this contingency, if items are to be sacrificed as part of returning a permed character to life, an item will qualify to be counted if it is:

• A +2 or greater item, or has a lens value of 10,000 True or greater, AND...
• the item can be equipped, AND...
• the item is not some form of ammunition

So this means things like +2 or better armors and weapons, +2 or better stat jewelry, cloaks, bracers and other such equipable items will qualify, but infused gems, Enhancement Rods and other similar things, regardless of lens value, will not be considered.

[Script Wrecked]

Given this is the case:

Originally Posted by Dorganath

The Graceful Plea system is not intended to be an avenue to remake their character entirely because they don't like it now 10, 15, 20 or more levels later. So to prevent a flood of requests of people wishing to start from scratch and re-sculpt their characters with their ideal progression, we'll just need to handle them as they come.

To describe this in another way, there have been requests in the past for re-levels that, while worthy reasons, were past our time and XP thresholds and were therefore denied. With Graceful Pleas, a player could circumvent the normal thresholds if all else was in line.

Graceful Pleas should not be seen as an auto-approval for anything, but rather an optional relaxation of normal requirements.

I suggest this:

Originally Posted by Dorganath

Graceful Pleas can be used for things such as (but not limited to):

• Any other request denied for any reason

needs some rewording, because it would seem to suggest that you can apply a Graceful Plea to any denied request, including a rebuild which doesn't fit the normal criteria, to get it allowed.

Regards,

Script Wrecked.

[Dorganath]

I understand your point and don't wish to be argumentative, but as we were refactoring these policies, we didn't want to have half a dozen lines of "you can" and three pages of "you can't". It is our hope with this new option and the relaxation of many policies overall, that our community would in turn understand our intent and display some mature judgment in the requests they make.

I am not saying Aerimor's request is not a mature or worthy request. I am, however, speaking in generalities.

In answering his question, I wished to give a broader answer that didn't simply apply to his one specific case but a much wider range of possibilities. It is not unreasonable for us to deny a request for a full rebuild "just because" someone wants to resculpt their character to a more ideal build. Similarly, it's not unreasonable for us to deny a request for a character to receive a +9 Sword of Everything Smiting, with 3d6 extra fire, acid, divine and sonic damage, Keen and a DC 40 Vorpal property, or an Armor of Near invulnerability with +10 AC, 50/- DR, +10 Regeneration and some juicy OnHit properties. Yet all these things technically fall under the "any other request" clause, which was put in there to cover reasonable requests that we might not have considered up front. And yes, I know that these are clearly outlandish requests, but they serve to prove a point.