Bjornigar Ironguts: Diety Change -> Dorand

[lonnarin]

After 12 lvls of furiously crafting, laughing at lazy beggars who don't have day jobs, swinging the warhammer and dragging folk into the mines and teaching them trades just to quit pestering him for alms, he no longer feels like the Voraxian he began his career as. After having found his 4th emerald to date, having made iron and platinum armors from chain shirts to platemails, and filling up 100 packs of gem chests in his home compulsively, his soul has now been entirely bought and sold to the father of the forge Dorand. This is also reinforced by Dorand's recent blessings, having been enhanced by the god of crafts in the mines of Haven while chopping ore. (temporarily hasted by an anonymous GM after a prayer for more ore)

His main obsessions now are making every poor bugger in the land quit their belly-aching, buckle down and get a job, and to protect his hard earned assets vehemently from any who dare eye his bulging coinpurse.

Dorand be praised.

[Rhizome]

Very entertaining post. This is probably better left to the character submission people. I thought that I would respond to your request, but after looking at your character bio I realized that Bjornigar is a dwarven defender. I'm not clear on the policy regarding DD and deities. I believe that there is no intimate link between a DD and a diety, but I don't know for sure. As such, I'm going to forward your request to the Character Submission forums and let one of those more knowledgable character experts field your request.
Thanks.
Rhizome

[lonnarin]

heh, here's the Dwarven Defender Description on pg. 27 of the Hordes of the Underdark manual

"The dwarven defender is a sponsored champion of a dwarven cause, a dwarven aristocrat, a dwarven deity or a dwarven way of life."

He began that path as a Voraxian from his defensive training in Bloody Gate as being trained in the arts of pushing back invasions with his shield, then for the cause of the dwarven military. Then, after many years of service, they sent him to Mistone shortly after the fall of Spellguard to the drow in order to help the humans increase their defenses, seeing the untrained folk of that continent as a liability of international security. When he arrived, he soon learned why the topsiders were doing so poorly; they're all lazy beggin bums who wouldn't know a hard day's work iffn it bit em on tha keister and made babies with an ettin!

Balking at the outrageous prices of armors, he set into the mines himself and began learning the trade of armorcraft, seeing the best offense as a sturdy defense against the seiging forces. He chipped and chipped and worked the forges day in and day out, and soon managed to find his 1st emerald... enter Bjorn the aristocrat. Being fabulously wealthy, he bought himself a tux and began guarding his wealth and trained vigorously his armorcrafting.

His fighting style also comes from his immense, bloated size. Pushing the scales at 440lbs, he is simply too fat to consistantly jog across the realms and do anything but brace and take the beating, wearing foes out with time and persistance rather than mounting crushing offenses. Hence, he learned defensive stances rather than offensive ones. He also found that his specialization in his chosen weapon, the warhammer allowed him to train his meaty arms in the battlefield as well as the forge, imagining the skulls of giants to be like brittle ore on an adamantium anvil. A hefty sack of gemstones, ore and tastey veal in tow, he set out to become the best armored dwarf in all the land. With human made wares flooding the market, he had no patience for skinny little sub-dwarves and non-veterans to do the job, so he did it himself. He went into the mines for the next few months realtime, and found 2 more emeralds to increase his wealth. The consistancy he's noticed is that its whenever he's obsessedly crafting that such things are bestowed upon him.

With even more wealth under his belt, a room full of literally hundreds and hundreds of gems and huge crates stacked full of armors of every type up to adamantium, he could not trust other, less wealthy and less honorable buggers to watch his resources for him. So he defends himself, the ultimate dwarven aristocrat, the eternal dwarven cause of hard labor and craftsmanship and making armors that don't crumble under the blade or blunt, and the only thing missing for him was a dwarven deity on that list of causes to fight for.

He kind of shrugged with heavy blubbery shoulders, as godfolk usually spout such barmy views like "generosity" and "holdin hands, bleedin-heart, treehuggin shennanigans" and decided to spread his knowledge to others. Xenos filled the gaps of spell-enhancing and other such sparkly goodies that no dwarf should do without, and despite wasting an entire room on a silly library, he still promised the dwarf that his research would lead to enchanted ores and possibly transmuting copper into gold. Willy Catpaw, though small and gangly was a bloody natural at chipping gems and inventing, his wee nimble fingers like Kathy Lee sweatshop children working quickly to make the things his fat stubby fingers could not. Unthuz, though being a stinkin no good idjut drow, seemed fairly strong and interested in learning a trade... "Oolright lad, ah rent ye a room in me hoose iffn ye fills it entirely fulla weapons! Ah dun make em meself, but ah kin teach ye where all da good ore is an how ter git at it. Now ye buggers, ye gonna keep at dat forge and keep workin at it until ye quite being a blood drow! AAARGH!" Soon like a treehugging, obsidian rumplestiltskin on paint chips, the dark elf did as was tasked of him, becoming a bidness partner in the great line of forging.

Life was good for him over the months, his armors further enhancing his defensive style of battle and his massive funds entirely poured into perfecting the art. Being so fat and hardy, there was no crafter alive who'd offer him a decent price on double-wide platemails, though it was useful in that he did not have to add much padding, his bulbous form jiggling beneath the gongs of battle as he protected his ore from hordes of ogres and giantkin who'd do naught but stare at the shinies without the foggiest clue of what to do with them. It was during a trip to the mines with a big fighter strangely named "Fragsnot" that he recieved his 1st blessing from a god that couldn't be attributed to pure luck...

He and Fragsnot swung their pickaxes in tune, ringing out small earthquakes through the corridors. Yelling out, "By Dorand, ah want dese bloody bags FULL or ah ain leavin!" he was then hasted anonymously and chipped yet another mystery mineral. Yes, the mineral bath would soon reveal, yet another emerald.

At this point he gave up just paying lip service to Vorax, the idjut who never gave him nothin but a lowly position as a drill isntructor, and his eyes widened to the realization that indeed, somebody *was* watching. Since the one consistancy he's found has been that it's always happened when he was either making armor himself, or helping others learn to make armor, he figured it HAD to be Dorand and decided that he wanted to convert his faith. Better to pay back the god who graced you than to pay lip service to a dolt who just points at orcs and screams, "KILL!", never giving anything back but scars and broken merchandise. It was Dorand, not Vorax, that helped him gain what he has today... and it suddenly made sense to him why he preferred the hammer to the axe. "Why kinnah ye be more like ye brudder!" he scowled at Vorax, waddling out of the crafthall one dwarf richer than any other, save for Gloin.

Hard work, perseverence, QUIT BLEEDIN! These are what make a dwarf great. Besides, Vorax'd have him become a bloody paladin and take some kind of poverty oath, it's DORAND who idolizes the words... "Git tah WORK!"

So now, Bjorn is his own aristocrat, his cause is to be the best there ever was at any craft he sets his mind to, his way of life is spent about 90% of the time in a mine gathering more ore for the forge, all he needs now is a god to look up to and thank for all he has. All the bloody mortals that think they're owed something by him can go pike off... AAARGH!

*by about his time in his life, Dorand is surely smiling upon him, as Vorax shakes his bloody axe in disgust, expecting some kind of tithe for nothing*

[stormspirit]

So this is a diety change only here? Okay understand why the application now, I am taking advice on if a DD should be allowed to serve Dorand.

Will get back to you.

[lonnarin]

none of the powers of a Dwarven Defender are tied to religion, wisdom, charisma or any god's boon; they are all battlestances. Dwarven Defenders need only be lawful, but can range from good to evil, so it's more of a battle tactic style like battlerager (cannot be lawful) than it is a holy/unholy champion type class.

[stormspirit]

The issue is I think that we are having trouble with the why Dorand defender. The voraxians defend the lands, you would think promoting the tenants of dorand would be instructing apprentices to mastery of a craft, mastering crafts and making things of beauty and functionality yourself. It might be a delight for a servant of Dorand to see his work used by a defender, but not be the one to use it. I dont see why a craftsman would waste time learning battle stances when he could be devoting that to his craft. It is not seen as a matter of diety gratned powers, but more as to the why would you learn it over spending time with the crafts that you are supposedly devoted to mastery of.

This is not a no however, I would like to hear your discussion on these points.

[Diamondedge]

Uh, if I may... I hate to be a big corn on the foot and jump in on someone else's submission but I think Bjornigar, regardless of DD ought to follow Dorand. And now I'll back up DD to Dorand like so:

Dorand does not say no to dwarven defenders. Dwarves step up to defend their kin time and time again; there is no real distinction between a dwarf of Vorax and a dwarf of Dorand; They are both dwarves. To both, the defense of their clan and kingdom is important. To both, crafting and creating is important. To both, valor in combat is critical, and to both, living a life of honor is important.

The difference lies outside the dwarf. The difference is only that Voraxans will go out to seek out enemies and go to war, and destroy them for the good of whatever. The Dorandites will craft zealously in the hopes of creating the perfect object, to create as Dorand creates. Religion is outside the dwarf, though. The dwarf will take kin far more seriously than he will take some stuffy priest of his order. Thus there should be no reason why any dwarf of Dorand should not be a dwarven defender.

I bet in dwarven lore, Dorand and Vorax work together a bunch, like in the smithing of the first dwarves. Or the fight with Grand. I bet Dorand played a major role in that.

And if it came right down to it, why not make Bjorni follow both Dorand and Vorax? He doesn't hate Vorax; I remember him giving a bunch of muttered prayers to him a while back. In fact, that would solve everything far easier than typing up so much stuff I just typed up.

[lonnarin]

1) dwarven defender is in no way tied to deity. Nowhere in the NWN, D&D or Layonara handbooks have shown me differently.

2) he started as a defender who supported Vorax, a god who was largely inactive in his life. Dorand decided to bless him 5X, 4 emeralds and 1 DM initiated blessing while crafting. If Vorax decided to play an active role in his life as Dorand, his tune would be differernt. This is in response to events that played a major part of Bjorn's life. If Allah raised my dying son to full health, I would not thank Buddha for it.

3) one does not entirely reinvent their own personal fighting style if they switch from christianity to judiasm. A punch to the jaw is a punch to the jaw. Same goes for the lift of a sheild and a firm brace for impact. Bjorn is fat, he does not charge ahead but instead braces behind his sheild. Why would any self respecting dwarf trust in human made sheilds with their own life on the line?

4) Bjorn is currently lvl 10 in armorcraft and lvl 1 in weaponcraft. Battlerager is to weaponsmith as Defender is to armor smithing.

5) the Dwarven way of life is not chopping heads, it's the forge. Any orc can swing an axe, but it takes a real dwarf to bash a hammer over the same anvil for aeons just to make something useful. Dwarves aren't known for their storming blitzkrieg strikes, but rather that they hole themselves in their halls during a seige and wait it out.

6) somebody needs to defend the oxen

7) if Vorax can smile upon an orc who doesn't even match his cleric required alignments and who doesn't even meet the guidelines for orc characters in the handbook, then Dorand smiling upon a Defender isn't so hard of a stretch... http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums...=16377&posts=6

Bjorn is LN, Dorand is TN. He could theoretically be a cleric of Dorand if he wanted to, but Defender has zero cleric-wise spiritual components, so I won't even get into that.

9) Religion is a personal thing, just as fighting style is. Character development has no room for arbitrary stereotypes.

10) Somebody needs to guard the wee apprentices from harm while the ore's getting chopped. Dead apprentices are only as useful as their own weight in veal. While Bjorn is very fat, he is not quite that heartless.

11) "The defender is a sponsored champion of a dwarven cause, a dwarven aristocrat, a dwarven deity or a dwarven way of life" His way of life is mostly centered around crafting right now, both improving his own skills and those of others. Hard work and determination; that's certainly a dwarven way of life, a cause and ties most to Dorand.

12) If a Battlerager who cannot be lawful can support Vorax, and Vorax is lawful, then a Dwarven Defender who cannot be chaotic, which Dorand is not, can most assuredly be a Defender.

13) Bjorn will gain no new feats, skills, classes etc from this deity change. It is purely to help flesh out his character by giving him a faith that he truly believes in.

14) the only alternative Dwarf Deity is Sulterio... egads... Do you really want Bjorn to enslave the world?

15) Aren't Doran and Vorax brothers?

16) Bjorn is the only dwarven defender he has ever met... NPC, PC or in the handbook. Where are these Voraxian Defenders mentioned?

17) He is not asking to be a Dorandite switched to Defender, but rather the opposite. He learned being a defender in the midst of war at Bloody Gate when he venerated Vorax. He is not requesting a new class, just a deity that suits his worldview better, who sponsors both a dwarven way of life and a dwarven cause.

1 Those who craft excellent armors learn to use them excellently. If they don't then they just become corpses in nice platemail.

19) He has yet to break a law. Breaking laws entail risk. Axe idjut Battleragers are lawless, while defenders rarely take risks. People who fight wars out of faith are risky idjuts, while those who train in good hard, honest work as Dorand decrees are far more likely to be more concerned in defense.

20) If a Dorandite would not be willing to sponsor his own armor in combat, then he is no Dorandite.

21) Bjorn has always used a hammer rather than an axe

22) It gives him joy to teach others how to do good, honest work; almost as much as it does to yell at lazy boozing bums who just sit there and ask him for free stuff.

23) He learned the art of defending in service at Bloody Gate. Snipers who came home from Nam did not simply forget how to load a gun.

24) Dorand is more of a Dwarf than Vorax will ever be. Forging, crafting, hacking off Grand fingers... all Vorax seems to be is a bearded Toranite with orc-like axe envy.

25) If people don't craft, they aren't even worth remembering in Bjorn's mind. Forts are made through skill and determination, not laurrel sitting, lolligaggin, tree-huggin or other such goodly idyllic wordlviews.

26) Bjorn has spent over a month at lvl 12 doing little else than crafting. Other dwarves just run off into Berhagen and axe at giants 24/7.

27) Bjorn has 3 official apprentices right now... Unthuz, Willy and Mith. The list of unofficial apprentices that he teaches trades is very much longer.

2 I've yet to meet a cleric of Dorand who teaches more people about crafting than Bjorn does.

29) Bjorn's a worker, not a war criminal.

30) Paladins rarely show the amount of justification to follow their gods as Bjorn does to Dorand.

[EdTheKet]

Sorry, have to comment on this one:

15<b />) Aren't Doran and Vorax brothers?

Well... no

[stormspirit]

I still think some of the reasoning is shonky, but Approved since clearly you have put alot of thought into this diety change.

A dm can fix this for you ingame.