Something I noticed....

xXDenizeNXx · 02-08-06, 07:23 PM

If I am re-opening an old can of worms plz forgive me and delete the post.

But I just can't get over how many wierd and wonderful different races you see getting around Layo upon my return. Sorry to whine but it kinda irks me to see a Half Giant or drow or goblin etc standing on every street corner of Hlint. Anyone else feel the same?

From the description of Hlint.....
"Location:
Hlint lies close to the center of the continent of Mistone.

Population:
2,000 (60% Human, 15% Halfling, 10% Dwarf, 5% Half-Orc, 5% Gnome, 5% Elf)"

NOT ANYMORE!! LOLz

Seriously though, in our quest to make the most interesting of charachters on Layo for the braggin rights are we missing something ....
Food for thought anyways.

Peace
Den

Edit* I just re-read this and saw it looked like I invited conflict but thats not my plan. I am just simply being an old fuddy duddy reminiscing about earlier times i guess. And the whole post is pretty rich I guess since I was the first half giant on the old version rofl. Whois a little hypocrite then eh..... I am lol soooooowweeeeee *big dimmy hugs*
I just meant to say simply that you do not need to be a drow etc to have an interesting charachter, some of the best characchters on the server are/were (thinkin of Plen and his wings?? lol) .. humans.

miltonyorkcastle · 02-09-06, 04:40 AM

Actually, it has been discussed, of course, many times, and, in fact, the GM's do keep track of the number of "exotic" races. As such, from time to time, L has, and I'm sure will again, stopped approval for certain races (Drow and asimaar come to mind) over an extended period. Believe me when I say, humans and elves dominate the adventuring population.

Rayenoir · 02-09-06, 05:33 AM

I'm sure I've annoyed people with my semi-frequent mentioning it before as well, but is there some sort of policy about the number of followers of a given deity? I don't mean clerics and paladins (as at least with paladins, those are limited enough to begin with *cough*weneedmorevoraxpaladinsforgetabouttoran*cou gh*... oh come on, I wanna see a paladin charge into battle because they feel they *should*, not because it's the last resort.

)

But everyone and their brother being a Lucindite these days... yeesh. You don't *have* to be a lucindite to be a spellcaster! I hope there's some formula in place as far as donations to temples go, or they're going to be way overpowered as far as influence.

Overused races are limited. Overused deities, perhaps as well? I'm just curious as to whether there is some thought on the matter.

feniox · 02-09-06, 05:56 AM

I think you could be on to something there as far as Deities go, but I don't think it should be changed or anything, because it's the same in real life. Some religions have a far greater reach than others, and some belief systems are scorned or frowned upon by people in society, but to the people that believe in them they are still as prominent as the next.

You can make life very difficult for yourself on layo depending on your deity and/or subrace though (as it should be

) such as Chanda, who I imagine is the only cleric of Corath on the server. I myself used to have a character here called Vyl'iath Ezra, who to the best of my knowledge was the only cleric of Baraeon Ca'Duz to have been around. The problem with playing that character was pretty tough, because most people wouldn't associate with him because of who he was (I never made an attempt to hide it, I even had the Ca'duz shield symbol), it was fun for a while, but then it kind of started to drag because even a lot of the other Drow characters wouldn't work with him because of it.

I think I strayed a bit off topic now, and I've actually forgotton what my original point was going to be...heh.

miltonyorkcastle · 02-09-06, 06:28 AM

Blah, this is a multy-god pantheon! Why isn't there more multi-god worshippers? That is, why does everyone "pick" one god. Why not venerate, two, or three, or even eight different gods. When on the ocean, pray to Mist or Shindaleria, when selling your wares, pray to Deliar for good deals, when leading a charge against the ogre hoard, say a prayer to Vorax, etc. Heck, even communicate with the gods you don't like (just don't go ing them off in their own temple unless you have a death wish ;-) ). Curse the gods you don't like, and praise the gods you do. One god doesn't govern everything on Layo afterall.

For that matter, Cole is still looking for a patron diety of mercenaries. Vorax doesn't work- he's too noble and worried about justice. You can guess why Toran doesn't work. Corath won't work either, as he's worried more about the destruction than the competition. But fear not! All you mercenaries! One day, Cole will find the god that governs Luck and Competition! ;-) ;-)

EdTheKet · 02-09-06, 09:21 AM

Quote:

From the description of Hlint..... "Location: Hlint lies close to the center of the continent of Mistone. Population: 2,000 (60% Human, 15% Halfling, 10% Dwarf, 5% Half-Orc, 5% Gnome, 5% Elf)" NOT ANYMORE!!

So tell me Denizen (and welcome back BTW

) have you ever asked if these Half Giants, goblins and what not, who are all PCs,actually live in Hlint? They're all adventurers, so most don't have a permanent residence, so I don't count those. In addition to that, to warrant a 1% mention it means that there would need to be 20 half giants at least, which we don't reach, nor do we reach that for goblins, so no, at the moment I am not changing the racial make-up of Hlint's population. (And yes, it is something that is considered when updating, in the old handbook it was:
1,830 (60% Human, 15% Halfling, 10% Dwarf, 5% Half-Orc, 5% Gnome, 5% Elf) (so the number of inhabitants increased)

EdTheKet · 02-09-06, 09:26 AM

Quote:

miltonyorkcastle - 2/9/2006 5:28 PM Blah, this is a multy-god pantheon! Why isn't there more multi-god worshippers? That is, why does everyone "pick" one god. Why not venerate, two, or three, or even eight different gods. When on the ocean, pray to Mist or Shindaleria, when selling your wares, pray to Deliar for good deals, when leading a charge against the ogre hoard, say a prayer to Vorax, etc. Heck, even communicate with the gods you don't like (just don't go ing them off in their own temple unless you have a death wish ;-) ). Curse the gods you don't like, and praise the gods you do. One god doesn't govern everything on Layo afterall.

Hear, hear! It IS a multi-deity pantheon and you can bet that the regular people do just as you say, pray to Deliar when making sales, offer to Shindaleria when sailing, or offering a quick prayer to Vorax ifattacked, just choose the right deity for the moment (if you're not a cleric or paladin, because then you're devoted to one).
Everyone picks one deity because clerics have to and people don't read

even though it saysin the Character Submission guide that only clerics have to have a deity.
Anyway

xXDenizeNXx · 02-09-06, 11:18 AM

Quote:

EdTheKet - 2/10/2006 5:21 AM So tell me Denizen (and welcome back BTW

) have you ever asked if these Half Giants, goblins and what not, who are all PCs,�actually live in Hlint? They're all adventurers, so most don't have a permanent residence, so I don't count those. In addition to that, to warrant a 1% mention it means that there would need to be 20 half giants at least, which we don't reach, nor do we reach that for goblins, so no, at the moment I am not changing the racial make-up of Hlint's population. (And yes, it is something that is considered when updating, in the old handbook it was:
1,830 (60% Human, 15% Halfling, 10% Dwarf, 5% Half-Orc, 5% Gnome, 5% Elf) (so the number of inhabitants increased)
�

HeHe Ed, I knew you'd say that :P *gives Ed big Dimmy Hugs* thanks btw Okay point taken but I have a valid point in saying what is the use of playing an exotic race if your just going to RP it like say for instance a Dwarf sees a Drow and accosts it and the Drow just goes Oh great not again get a life Dwarf. Are they playing the race for the rich RP experience this exotic race will (and the player MUST realise this too before they play it or they have the brains of Dimmy LOLz) give them each time they meet a new person or did they just say whatever I might play a (insert race here) for the sake of it? Now if ANYONE wants to see a Drow RP'ed well look no further then Edthekat's Matriachal Drow Priestess. (gratuitous buttkissin aside now heh :P) Okay another example, Take Dimmy. With str 25 and a decent dex of like 12 i think he could woodwork/ Mine / Weapon make / Craft Armor and In no time at all be a master of the craft at like a paultry level. Heck he can even solo the most of the first two levels of the Haven mines with luck and enough kits, all this and only level 6! But thats not what Dimmy is about eh he is more then likely chasing a cat in Hlint, playing Tag with the goblins or playing hide n go seek with his friends. GAH w/e this is an old topic anyways, I just don't like unrealistic RP when it concerns this whole racism thing, didn't like it 12 months ago don't like it still now. You won't convince my Dwarf to be all happy and fluffy to Drow cause there "good" anyways heh I know it's fantasy and I realise we have griefing rules but everyone playing hug the Drow aint realistic RP neither and I know Ed's with me on that one! *puffs* end of rant LOL *disclaimer* I don't mean to offend anyone here, I am not trying to be insulting nor am I inviting a flame war, if you are reading my post with an angry voice in your head instead picture a jolly fat guy just wanting an intelligent discussion and you'll be on the money *winks* Peace Den

miltonyorkcastle · 02-09-06, 11:40 AM

I agree with you on the race relations. I would, however, point out, that since you've been gone, there have been several Drow characters who have had a hand in major workings of the world for good, and as such, have gone a long way in building a hope and trust for their race among the surface dwellers. The open wedding between Sahala and Ael was a prime example of how much more trusting the people have become of the dark elves.

Now, this of course, opens the door for some very nifty quest ideas where the evil drow exploit this newfound trust. *winks wink* =P

lonnarin · 02-09-06, 11:58 AM

Bjornigar used to have a drow working for him chained to the wall in the weapons room, but then Unthuz chewed off his own ankle and ran away...

EdTheKet · 02-09-06, 12:43 PM

Quote:

miltonyorkcastle - 2/9/2006 10:40 PM I agree with you on the race relations. I would, however, point out, that since you've been gone, there have been several Drow characters who have had a hand in major workings of the world for good, and as such, have gone a long way in building a hope and trust for their race among the surface dwellers. The open wedding between Sahala and Ael was a prime example of how much more trusting the people have become of the dark elves.

I beg to differ. Strongly.
The last five years or so drow, to name a few things,:
1) Put siege to Hlint 2) Stole the remains of Toran's First Paladin and turned him into an undead general 3) Poisoned numerous wellknown adventurers so they wouldn't interfere with their schemes 4) Laid siege to and eventually occupied the city of Spellgard for several months 5) Did several other nasty things which I won't reveal at the moment
So it is not even close that the drow have some kind of better standing or reputation during the last few years, especially not with the general population.The marriage and the fact that a handfull of drow were involved in some good deeds pale in comparisonto the centuries of evilness (well documented in the history and folk tales if I say so myself). Hope and trust? I don't think so, not by a long shot. The general populace, and adventurers would be good to follow, is distrustful of drow and rightly so.

**Varka** · 02-09-06, 12:44 PM

To Geddrin:
I know how it feels dude.......seeing both drow and half-giants fist time you play here.
Well...Varka learned to live with it. Not accepting it.

I remember Ronus and I wanted to hang a drow in the city once......wow folks went crazy.
Many were saying I was evil and all....it does not matter.
I just play a regular dwarf / “average Joe”.
Just play your dwarf as you want and speak to those you believe in.

Etinfall · 02-09-06, 04:57 PM

Quote:

EdTheKet - 2/9/2006 4:43 PM

Quote:

miltonyorkcastle - 2/9/2006 10:40 PM I agree with you on the race relations. I would, however, point out, that since you've been gone, there have been several Drow characters who have had a hand in major workings of the world for good, and as such, have gone a long way in building a hope and trust for their race among the surface dwellers. The open wedding between Sahala and Ael was a prime example of how much more trusting the people have become of the dark elves.

I beg to differ. Strongly.
The last five years or so drow, to name a few things,:
1) Put siege to Hlint 2) Stole the remains of Toran's First Paladin and turned him into an undead general 3) Poisoned numerous wellknown adventurers so they wouldn't interfere with their schemes 4) Laid siege to and eventually occupied the city of Spellgard for several months 5) Did several other nasty things which I won't reveal at the moment
So it is not even close that the drow have some kind of better standing or reputation during the last few years, especially not with the general population. The marriage and the fact that a handfull of drow were involved in some good deeds pale in comparison to the centuries of evilness (well documented in the history and folk tales if I say so myself). Hope and trust? I don't think so, not by a long shot. The general populace, and adventurers would be good to follow, is distrustful of drow and rightly so.

Hear hear!
or is it Here Here!!
it can't be Hare Hare!!
Her Ear Her Ear!!

miltonyorkcastle · 02-13-06, 05:57 AM

*chuckles* maybe I should have explained better my first statment in that post- "I agree with you on the race relations..."

I'm wasn't suggesting that the general populace should or even would have any measure of trust in a Drow. What I was suggesting, is that there are a significant number of influential people (primarily adventurers) who would vouch for and have friends among the Dark Elves. Those who , despite the atrocities of the Drow race, would at least give a Drow the opportunity to prove himself/herself trustworthy.

My own character, Cole, does not trust drow, and was there at the occupation of Spellgard, and when adventurers were being poisoned. He's killed many and points out to any Drow he meets that he has done so. He has, however, developed a working relationship with certain "darkies," even offering them a measure of respect.

There are a significant number of respected people who have seen that the Dark Elves are, in fact, capable of doing good, and that in itself is enough to have hope for their race, however minute that hope is.

Yes, I realize I'm debating with the loremaster himself, although I truly don't disagree with him (not that it would matter if I did). It just is apparent I needed to clarify myself.

EdTheKet · 02-13-06, 11:14 AM

Quote:

What I was suggesting, is that there are a significant number of influential people (primarily adventurers) who would vouch for and have friends among the Dark Elves. Those who, despite the atrocities of the Drow race, would at least give a Drow the opportunity to prove himself/herself trustworthy.

First of all, what makes you think they’re influential, and with whom do they have influence?

Second of all, they don’t have friends among the Dark Elves, they have friends among Dark Elf outcasts (for lack of a better word). Dark Elves are treacherous in dealings with other Dark Elves, and even more so in dealings with other races. They will break any agreements made with people from other races as soon as an agreement is not advantageous to them anymore.
So the smart thing to do is to not trust a Dark Elf, not even one that’s been on the surface for a while or one that has helped you a few times. It’s likely to be a ruse and you’ll get backstabbed in the night.
And it’s even worse if elves start to treat them as friends!
They should hate each others guts. After all, the Dark Elves betrayed the Surface Elves…. Err, the Surface Elves betrayed the Dark Elves… Errr…. Who betrayed who again?

This Betrayal led to the War between the Elves (in the year -2311 on Layonara, check the timeline and the history sections). Every Elf knows this, moreover, from an elf perspective (who live 7 centuries) it’s not even that long ago!
As for opportunities to prove themselves worthy. There are 51 drow characters above level 5, only 25 of those have been played the last 3 months and there are a couple of hundred thousand drow. 25 out of a couple of hundred thousand, if people are smart they shouldn’t give them an opportunity to prove themselves. Based on the centuries of backstabbing, atrocities and betrayals, people should expect them to turn on them eventually, so shouldn’t give them the opportunity.

Quote:

My own character, Cole, does not trust drow, and was there at the occupation of Spellgard, and when adventurers were being poisoned. He's killed many and points out to any Drow he meets that he has done so. He has, however, developed a working relationship with certain "darkies," even offering them a measure of respect.

Nothing wrong with respecting your enemy

Quote:

There are a significant number of respected people who have seen that the Dark Elves are, in fact, capable of doing good, and that in itself is enough to have hope for their race, however minute that hope is.

Have these respected people read the history books and been around lately?
Drow. Are. Evil.
And as for doing good? Or doing a small bit of good for a larger evil plan in the background? Judging on the well-deserved reputation of the drow, it’s the latter.

Quote:

Yes, I realize I'm debating with the loremaster himself, although I truly don't disagree with him (not that it would matter if I did). It just is apparent I needed to clarify myself.

Loremaster, I like that

Thanks.

miltonyorkcastle · 02-13-06, 11:45 AM

*grins* I have to stop looking at things from a redemptive perspective. That is, everyone starts off evil, and then has a chance for redemption (becoming good). I.E. "Yeah yeah, Drow are evil, but so is everyone else." (Oi. That sounded a little like Ozy there...0.0...)

It just doesn't work in a fantasy setting w