Rogue Levels

twidget658 · 06-09-06, 10:41 AM

I keep getting asked if I am going to take any rogue levels. I play a ranger and do not view him as a thief. What are the benefits of taking levels as a rogue?

Niles09 · 06-09-06, 10:46 AM

well my characther is half rogue half ranger. Makes you able to sneak attack (which can be very nice with a bow that which usually dont give any extra damage) while the ranger lvl's makes your char more accurate (bigger base attack) more HP and general better in combat. Besides if the monsters arent to strong a ranger/rogue can fight alone by using a summon to distract the enemy while sneak attacking.
But short said, I picked this combination for RP cause that was the type Zan is and are.
If you dont see your characther as a rogue like person, then dont pick rogue levels.

Acacea · 06-09-06, 11:59 AM

Rogues are the coolest class, and that is why everyone should be one. Ahem. That is... You know rogues...good at getting to what people want to keep from them. Money, valuables. Secrets. Blackmail...enemy locations...chastity. Clubs on the head and stabs in the back work pretty well. So do quick fingers and silver tongues. It's a versatile class. A lot of people take rogue levels for the skill points, the sneak attack, evasion, etc. It is (in my opinion), the most common multiclass for little to no RP reason, simply for its mechanical perks or cool points. That's not to say it is everyone, nor am I seeking to point at every multiclassed rogue to discuss who is (or who is not...) doing (or not doing...) something (or... actually something pretty much covers it.). I play a bard/rogue myself. It's not like that never happens, though, and I just feel that it easily happens with rogues the most. I mean, if you've got to ask everyone else why your character should be going rogue, maybe you should just stick with the treehugging, right?

Chongo · 06-09-06, 12:16 PM

I'd probably offer an alternative view on that Acacea... someone above my paygrade please weigh in. We may be on the same page here, but those terms seem restrictive.

I think a lot of folks view rogues fairly narrowly and make them synonomous with theives. I think on one spectrum you have the theiving conspiring type, but on the other you simply have a saavy individual who is probably less then lawful in nature. And by less then lawful it doesn't mean that they will always pick their friends pocket, it simply means they will always look for intelligent fast tracks to getting a task done, including slicing at tendons, setting traps, or sneaking in the back window rather then breaking down the front door.

Therefore, I deem them almost as variable as the fighter class, having such a broad scope that in the end is really dealt with more in alignment then class.

Any thoughts?

twidget658 · 06-09-06, 12:33 PM

Yes...tree hugging is my life and do not plan on any rogue levels (or any other class for that matter). I was just wondering what the big push was. I have never played a rogue and am not very familiar with the class other than what the book says.

"...if you've got to ask everyone else why your character should be going rogue..."

I didn't ask.

I asked about why OTHER people went rogue and what the benefits/reasons were and some knowledge that I obviously did not have. People were asking me first and I was wanting to figure out why. From what I have seen, my ranger can do all the things a rogue can do except the 'illegal things’ (pick pocket, etc). Not as good, but enough to get by. But again, I am a bit ignorant of the rogue class.

Chongo · 06-09-06, 12:44 PM

They're either suggesting based on your character being a sneaky type of fellow or they're offering basic number benefits. The most profound number benefits being uncanny dodge if you're a dexxer... as this will significantly increase your survivability fighting large groups where you're most often flanked by a few creatures. But there are a few classes you can get uncanny from, SD, assassin, barbarian, and dwarven defender. Your dodge AC at your level will go up 4 AC points from tumble... which again isn't as powerful given the nature of encounters here and how often dodge AC gets negated... but it's still a good plus on the numbers. And if you're a dual wield dex based ranger, it fits naturally when crunching numbers based on bringing up the traditionally low AC and tremendously low dex ranger flanked AC, and the sneak attack damage being applied to all of your 6 attacks.

But, if you're a tree hugging non-saavy type ranger as implied, then they probably aren't suggesting based on character type.. it's just number benefits, the major changes listed above.

twidget658 · 06-09-06, 01:17 PM

Thanks a lot, Chongo, you have shed a lot of light on the rogue class. I appreciate your responses and I look at rogues in a different light now. The AC thing is a huge issue with my ranger, but I do not think that it is worth altering my course as a 'tree hugger’ just for power.

Thanks again!

Stephen_Zuckerman · 06-09-06, 02:14 PM

There are three reasons people choose Rogues.

Skills

Sneak Attack

Use Magic Device.

All three can be terribly useful, but it's Sneak Attack that shows up most often. After all, a few extra d6 can come in handy.

Myself, I play rogue because it fits my character. Medium skill in combat, great flanking, good skills, and a knack for that whole getting things away from others thing Acacea mentioned.

Though honestly, your main reason should ALWAYS be "that it fits the character," not that it gives cool feats. Otherwise I'd take 5 levels in Ranger, 5 Levels in Cleric, and the rest in Fighter.

Acacea · 06-09-06, 03:16 PM

I didn't mean to imply that rogues were thieves, end story. They are about the most versatile class ever, though I've heard I might be a little biased on that one. *Coughs.*

It was a pretty simple question of "why do people take rogue levels?" though, and I have a tendency towards the essay length posts just to say "Go rogues! Woooooooooooo!" or something similar.

Etinfall · 06-09-06, 03:44 PM

I'd rather hear the question. Why should my character want to be a rogue?

Well, growing up in a brothel, I found it to be very usefull to be able unlock a door or two. And the things I heard and saw, without being seen that is, would come in handy some day.

merlin34baseball · 06-09-06, 03:44 PM

My character is a rogue/wizard. Granted the emphasis is on the mage part but the rogue part at least gives my something to do in combat when my spells run out. Also the sneak attacks with the bow help a bunch as well as the high DEX for keeping my AC up as well as the tumble... Plus the high INT gives lots of skill points when I level as a rogue. I have seen some amazed adventurers when the mage disarms the trap and opens the lock...

Nyralotep · 06-09-06, 04:10 PM

My char, Zupzupzandzawae is a rogue/ranger. He started out as one who loved to hide and sneak and suprise people and things. He grew into liking animals and wanting to help out the balance of nature. Rnager was just a natural extension of how he acted as a rogue. He's very good at sneaking and moving silently, cross class with Ranger too so they compliment each other. Plus being able to unlock doors is invaluable. Rogues are great party characters but unfortunately too many don't wait for the rogue until they meet a door they can't open....

But rogues can also be great intelligence gatherers too as well as having UMD which is incredibly useful.

Faldred · 06-09-06, 05:00 PM

As has been pointed out, a Rogue isn't just a thief. Many Rogues aren't theives at all. They are "skillful" characters, and depending on your focus, can lead to several different characterizations.

The typical "thief" rogue is clever (high INT) and nimble (high DEX). She (any pronoun will do) is going to focus on stealth, opening locks, and dealing with traps (set, detect, disable), and lastly combat support skills.

A "scout" rogue (my favorite way to play one), is similar in skill set, though is more likely to focus on spot and listen skills rather than locks and traps. This would be the most likely way to multi-class a ranger, as the "scout" mentality syncs well with a ranger's skills.

A "diplomat" rogue may put more emphasis on CHA, and related skills of bluff, intimidate, and persuade. This is more of a RP rogue than a combat rogue.

A "thug" (high STR and CON, lower INT) won't be as skillful, but will likely compliment her other combat skills with some stealth. A fair fight is for Paladins, not thugs.

Stephen_Zuckerman · 06-09-06, 05:58 PM

Don't forget the Adventurer build. Mainly DEX but even abilities for the rest. Well-spread skills, with maxed Heal, Hide/Move Silently, Tumble, and moderately even other skills (Such as Search, Gather Info, Disable Trap, etc.) and some UMD to make the rest up.

Basically even, a jack-of-all trades for the class that was built for it.

twidget658 · 06-09-06, 08:55 PM

Heh, I can do all these things in a well balanced party...why have a character that can do it all? That seems like a jack-of-all-trades and master of none. Multi-classing seems like trying to get the best of more than one world unless they are a prerequisit for a PrC.

I do have a Ranger 4/Wizard 4/Arcane Archer 1, however this is my only stab at a multi-classed character so I think the build is a bit flawed.

*shrugs* Oh well, I will be staying just a plain ranger.