Weary of Friendly Fire

[Chongo]

I hope you folks find this constructive.

I'm getting a little weary of the blind pokes from the wings. And it's towards one thing in particular: That roleplay has depreciated on this server. I don't care who's saying it or whether they have more or less experience on this server then I do, I'm just a bit weary of that sentiment.

Now, I haven't been here as long as a few of you, but I've been playing NWN since it came out and Layo for the majority of it. Here's what I've noticed of what goes on in any module:

- There are new players
- There are old players
- There are plenty of players in the middle
- There are young people
- There are old people
- There are those suffering from college omniscience
- There are snotty people
- There are brown-nosers
- There are anti-establishment ranters
- There are quiet people
- There are nice people
- There are people that rp more then adventure
- There are people that adventure more then rp
- There are people that think adventure can not be rp
- There are anti-progressionists or those edging towards it
- There are powermongers or those edging towards it
- There are people who play 10 hours a day
- There are people who play 1 hour a week
- There are people who get along
- There are people who don't get along

There are people you end up loving, likewise there are those that rub you like rough grain sandpaper.

There are all sorts of personalities and people and varying tenures and maturities that have been on Layonara at any given point in its online existance. Same goes for every other server. These roles and this variety has never changed in it's overall percentages from what I've seen, it's always a true mixed bag.

Likewise, there are the all too common sentiments always bouncing around:

- We don't roleplay enough
- We are too harsh on rules
- The cliques are unbearable
- There isn't enough community
- Things aren't balanced
- Devs need to be more open
- Devs need to use more discretion
- XXX gets preferential treatment
- XXX shouldn't be where they are
- XXX dev(s) are out to get me
- And of course: Us versus them, in any of it's myriad forms
- And finally: Times have changed for the worse

If I spent more then 5 minutes hatching this I'm sure I could list a hundred more, all bouncing back and forth against each other in the ongoing pendulums of opinion and emotion. The same themes passing by, generation after generation of players and devs alike. It's the last one that usually makes me chuckle, but as of late is growing tiresome on my ears.

"Times have changed for the worse". I've heard this many times, and it comes in generation-based waves usually. The thing that always irks me is not so much the ignorance or self-righteous tone it usually takes, but the contradiction it typically puts on their grievance. Whatever their issue, most often depreciation of roleplay or playerbase, they usually voice this before or during their departure from the server, which is usually just proving themselves quitters who never quite got it. And here's why.

Generations come and go. They attain server lore, they participate in events changing the server. On a server like Layonara where there is so much player impact, the server shapes itself around them. Usually it's a particular era of players, people that became their own little adventuring company during those times. They become the center of roleplay focus, not based so much on their *ability* in roleplay, but by the fact that they are so engrained in things and happenings on the server. And in these little era's coming and going, there seem to be a few trends.

Many head towards development for the server since they've helped shaped it during their era. Some get sucked into development so far that they don't re-emerge. Slowly the adventuring companies of 'old' wither, "this dev doesn't log onto play enough, this guy got bored and left, this guy started playing another game, we can't do anything without the people who don't play as much anymore," etc etc... while there's still a core group struggling to hold on. Some adapt, some leave. And I honestly can't forgive the excuses of 'the server has changed for the worse' before departure.

The correct response has luckily happened for the majority, and can be summed up as:

What did XXX player do when his favorite RP and adventuring buddies left or moved onto pure development? He picked up new players, gave them a chance, brought in new generations of server shapers, and continued to have fun.

Generations come and go. Eras of lore come and go. It is not an easy thing. It is not easy to find your favorite individuals moving on. But get off the high horse, roleplay is not depreciating, the server is not changing for the worse. The excuse of roleplay caliber is age old inaccuracy. If you simply let new people in they find their ground, probably at the same pace you did.

People saying this have just lost their immediate reminders of identity. There are always going to be the different types of players coming and going; good, bad, experienced or inexperienced. There is always going to be the same percentages of those types of players coming in. These sentiments are a pretty simple matter, you think the community has lost it's sense but it's you that has lost your sense of community.

Community is always going to be changing. To be a long standing player on any server, you need to accept this. Community is bigger then just one generation, just look at the progression of Layonara.

Now, in all of this I will make one concession. A significant chunk of the Bloodstone era generation, the people that shaped a lot of the lore we have grown to know... they are gone. Some left around or immediately after the fall of Bloodstone, Reventage for example. Some have just recently not so much left, but have moved into development of the new Layonara, Rhizome or Orth for example. They log in now and then, but not like it used to be. And hey, I get it. It's a downer, those are the people I really miss adventuring with. And they do hold a lot of the server lore for their eras of gameplay that we currently regard as Layonara history. Our personal sense of lore has definitely hit a struggling point due to this change. And yes, it's a downer.

And in this concession I will say that we could in fact use some change, that some of the "let-down" complainers may have some footing, however poor their delivery. Plot quests need to be reinvigorated, perhaps redelegated to bring forth new and motivated blood. Generations of players need to be fostered through a server-wide cause. Once it was Bloodstone, the mainstay of plotlines to maintain that community gathering point. I will conceed this, that things could be worked on in this sense to bring forth some cause. There are so so many players just waiting in the wings, waiting to find some cause to get back in there. For some it's the update. Fair enough, I can't say I can criticize that heh. For others it's apparently roleplay, and the simple solution to that folks is to just log in and try it. But yeah, I'll go with it, we could use some plotline cause, so however misguided this roleplay sentiment may be, I can somewhat see an issue in it all.

But the community is still there. The caliber is the same as it's always been and there are a lot more individuals waiting in the wings to surprise you with their roleplay. It's not like the people sticking with NWN after all this time are the click-happy powermongers looking for more. More graphics, more monsters, more killing! No, it's the people looking for community. To any of you calling out the depreciation of roleplay, wake up. Find your sense of community instead of needing the last generation of players to hold your hand through it. Honestly, step it up. Instead of floating on the outskirts proving yourselves not of the caliber you preach... step it up.Talk to the new player, the younger generation, do what the generation we hold in such high regard did before us and continue to help the Layonara community find new roots.

[LynnJuniper]

I'm glad my 'drunken raving' brought this about or atleast was the last straw for this. I always enjoy reading your postings Chongo. I can agree with a lot of this and in it see the flaws of such arguments. Such arguments however need to be brought up both so that there is no (or less) Animosity from holding it in, and so that things as productive as this come about from it.

Ill quote this as well as I think it bears repeating. I second this: But yeah, I'll go with it, we could use some plotline cause

[Pseudonym]

Curse you Chongo for your well worded, relevant, thought-provoking, positive post containing thoughts and sentiments with which I 100% agree.

I'll surely never catch up to your Thanked count now!!!

*Speaks to self* Let it go, just let it go

[miltonyorkcastle]

Chongo, you've just summed up what's been rolling around in my head for some months now. Thank you for putting this forth in a concise, well organized manner.

I also agree (and I don't say this lightly) with you 100%.

[Talan Va'lash]

Chongo's observations in the OP are incisive and cut straight to the core of the strife that exists in NWN communities. I've seen it over and over on this server and others.

[LordCove]

I'm mainly bumping this since its a bloody good post.

Yes....lots of people who shaped the Layo history have gone. But there's a lot of new characters who have climbed the ladder and are making their mark in the world just as the people who have gone did....
....I'd like to see their efforts rewarded much as the old ones did.

I'd like to see Nye placed high in the ranks the "Ha-haaa" Druids, Katrina placed into an insane asylum, Shak given full access to Hempstead, Kinai come to terms with Hawk's death.....
....Muireann made Tempest, Daralith assassinated for being so evil , Valaria made High Priestess of Folian, Ark get locked up for being....well....him, Rhynn pull off her "plan", Tegan finally wisening up to Sall, Beli become Lord High fast puncher and runner of Vorax, Hardragh sold into slavery ....

...Im curious as to what the hell Milara's doing behind his borders. Are fleets of Dragons gonna suddenly descend on Layo? What the hell would we do if they did? Will I ever get to kill Zoraje? Will Ron ever finish his training? Will Seth ever learn to cling onto a Dragons back? Will Aryanna ever stop poking people?

There's so much going on ingame right now. A lot Im not even clued up on due to Times and such. But yes....I'd like to see more Plot driven scenario's. Before a main topic of conversation was " so Whats been happening with Blood?" .... now its " so whats new?". The common goal gave us all a reason to do what we did. Now....those who couldnt make the Plot Quests ( Way to early for me ) or have just joined....dont know what the big picture is.

But lets remember....we've a new host of upcoming GM's about to bounce onto our screens. Who knows what wonders theyre gonna torture us with.


//way early in the morning....and Ive had way too much Fosters

[LynnJuniper]

Hey Guys! Check the Calendar Leanthar's added a new plot quest in August! I think its seriously what we need to pull the characters (and the players) Of the server together again.

And I'm against rabid fanboy/girl blathering, but thanks Leanthar for starting this up again and realising its really a needed thing in the big pictures.

[AeonBlues]

A lot of the in fighting that Chongo was writing about are very prevalent in group structures and organizations. One of the things that I have said to new players via Tell, is that "Layonara is like starting at a new school. It seems a bit lonely at first, as it takes a little time to make new friends." When you think about it, it really is. We are people with various degrees of experience, and administration. We have first impressions and clicks.

What I try to remember, is that I am here to have fun. I am not here to live up to anyone else's standards. I am not here to produce drama for others. I am here to have a good time. I obey the server rules, because I know that if I don't, I will have a bad time. I try to live up to the spirit of the server, because I like the spirit of the server. Don't expect me to be perfect, I make no claims to be a professional game player, or RP developer. We are all armatures here, as this a hobby. Relax and have a good time

AeonBlues

[Talan Va'lash]

Originally Posted by AeonBlues

A lot of the in fighting that Chongo was writing about are very prevalent in group structures and organizations. One of the things that I have said to new players via Tell, is that "Layonara is like starting at a new school. It seems a bit lonely at first, as it takes a little time to make new friends." When you think about it, it really is. We are people with various degrees of experience, and administration. We have first impressions and clicks.

What I try to remember, is that I am here to have fun. I am not here to live up to anyone else's standards. I am not here to produce drama for others. I am here to have a good time. I obey the server rules, because I know that if I don't, I will have a bad time. I try to live up to the spirit of the server, because I like the spirit of the server. Don't expect me to be perfect, I make no claims to be a professional game player, or RP developer. We are all armatures here, as this a hobby. Relax and have a good time

AeonBlues

I enjoy your contribution to the RP on my quests.

[Masterjack]

Awesome..This thread just about sums up what I have wanted to say for a while. I'm just glad the upgrades took a bit longer. Beli was able to advance to a level where he could enjoy them all. Now to get Buddy there...