Rping poison

[pulindar]

a thought maybe we should come up with a new forum for RPing because i have seen alot about it here and i just might help
this topic is about RPing poison making. Poison is evil and sneaky anyone who does it should have a bad reputation if your trying to be good or nice you shouldn't be doing it unless your trying to find an antidote, im not saying who to limit it to, just saying people might want to limit themselfs. also anyone whoes in the top ten on poison making should have a bad reputation and be distrusted just like i feel most drow should start off at least being distrusted. I don't think people should just be accepting poison making as ussual its not a nice thing and its sneaky read it description. At first i thought that it was just plain normal and didn't like the restriction but ive learned a bit from people on this server and thought to let others know about how it seems to me. I met someone whoes on the poison list, not naming who, but they seemed to be trying to act as though they were a good guy poison makers aren't good guys maybe a TN acn experiment, never get over level 1 in it, but anyone who gets higher is definitly leaning twards chaotic and towards evil. Please just don't RP it as normal in the CNR poison thread they were suggesting making it illegal i think thats a great idea also offer rewards for anyone on the top five of the list if you do that. and good characters you should try to avoid poison makers CG less than the other two because he can understand it a bit but he should still be strongly against it. These are all just my opinions feel free to comment on them any way you wish my feelings won't be hurt just try to keep this a bit on topic.

[Vyris]

Hmmm, I disagree on your perception of poison as evil. Poison is a tool, nothing more. This is akin to the handgun debate here in the USA, I am still of the belief that guns don't kill people, people do. I'll give an example that U used just last night, my character Bidwick is walking through the craft hall and notices another character whom he knows and respects crafting poisons, He talks to the character for a while, because he needed information that the other character knew. They converse about the poison making for a while, and Bidwick asserts his beliefs. Bidwick is NG, as far as I feel about NG vs. poison making I RP it as I stated above, it's not the tool, it's the use.

Swords kill far more things in any given day than poison does, yet some of the most holy paladins use swords to great effect. Anyway. theres my two coins.

Vyris

[pulindar]

hey just thought of this how about making the rewards, if you make rewards for catching poison makers, about 1000 per level of poison making that they have maybe 500 per level. that would make people really want to catch poison makers and turn them in it would also make it so that it'd be a bit harder to find them though because it would be secret don't use the charts just use people talking about it and they have to have a good reason for how they found out so and so was a poison maker. Naturally because this wasn't there when some people started making poison they may be removed if they want to have their poison xperience taken away. btw the 500 per level is minus 1 level so people aren't turning in level 1's. make the improvements suggested in the CNR forum and then do the illegal and reward thing that way its worth it. I know it will be a while before this happens but i just thought putting the idea out now would be good. Btw that guard thing where people may join the guard of the city that someone was talking about might help with this you could send a group of guards to patrol the area looking for suspicious people naturally they couldn't go to where the poison was mae but they could watch for people who collect it from spiders. just another thought.

edit : Btw the people catching someone would need DM supervision and a way to catch the person without killing them we only want live people caught

[pulindar]

i feel it is more caotic than evil but i also do feel it leans on the evil side. caotic because its a sneaky way to hurt someone in battle. My TN cleric of Dorand wouldn't use poison because he is straight forward when he fights as Dorand is, but a TN cleric of Baraeon Ca'Duz would use it because Baraeon likes poison.
as for evil its a dasturdly thing to do put poison on your blade and then sneak up and use it on someone. Many a Paladin goes rushing into battle with his sword drawn and ready to kill evil but he also is being obvious about his sword being drawn and how he's going to attack he doesn't come in and strike with a sword that has a bonus on it just to torture his enemy. which is what poison does in the game at the moment lowers your stats which is a lot like torture, I also feel its evil because look at the creatures that gvie poison they're spiders Spiders are only liked by the Lord of spiders Baraeon, and Baraeon is argueably the most evil diety out there he's NE. For other reasons ask L i figure he's the one who decided to make it limited in the first place

Thanks for posting here i do like what you said but i had to say my opinion for the subject please give more examples on how it's not evil and refute mine if we discuss this with an open mind then we may be able to come to a firm agreement on wether or not it is evil, but please do you agree that it's caotic?

[OneST8]

Sorry but I don't think Layonara will turn into a police state. I for one will certainly do whatever I can to prevent that.

As already stated above: poison doesn't kill people, people kill people.

If your logic were to be used IRL then anyone who bought standard houshold cleaning materials (like bleech, comet and such) would be classified as "potential wrong-doers" because they have all the materials to make explosives. Heck you can make a thermite bomb with simple store-bought materials (and no I'm not going to tell anyone how I know this or how to do it either).

[feniox]

I make poison in the game but trying to keep it a secret from everyone, I mention it to none of my friends, and have even told tales about people for making poison and studying necromancy. He uses poison as a tool, an enhancement for his weapons and a great way to reduce the strength of enemies. The way I'm trying to roleplay it, is that there's two sides to my character (who is a Drow), one side is distrustful, cruel and sneaky, but to most people he appears polite and kind hearted, which is really just a front. Thereby showing different attitudes to different people, depending how it will benefit him most.

Depending on who asks him about poison his answer will be different, I had a roleplay with another character about 30 minutes ago about poison crafting (which I was subsequently rewarded 1000xp by a GM for ) where I admitted I was a poison crafter, however when talking to my friends I act completely differently.

In this way im expecting (even hoping) that at some point I will be caught out, someone will see me crafting poison or the like and then I will be landed in a situation where I will have to explain myself to my friends. Only problem with this is now i'm on the poison charts, so people might "keep and eye" on me, even if they have no RP reason to.

[steverimmer]

What about druids making poison then? They have combat spells which dish out poison how then can it be wrong to make poison when there is no prohibition on using magic which uses poison to cause damage?

[aine feir]

Yep.... if asked about crafting, my character simply says she deals in natural essences. Usually the RP follows along those sort of lines, and she will not use the word 'poison', unless someone expresses an interest in such substances. She knows how 'society' views such things, so she doesn't go around making trouble for herself if she can avoid it.

As far as its creation and use being evil, I agree that its simply another tool - maybe we all perceive it as 'evil' because usually it's used to kill other people, but in this world (non PvP) we only kill mosnters and evil things, so it's like a fire enhancement to a weapon or a potion to buff abilities as far as my character views it. a rational view of its creation and use would be that it is just another crafted tool I suppose, and your use of it determines its ethical or moral nature (though its use is not really very potent anyway, as far as damage is concerned, at least with low level poisons - not sure about the higher level stuf - she's not talented enough for that yet)

[Eight-Bit]

When I am asked to craft any amount of poison, I first question where this knoweldge came from. If I am not content with their ability to know that Key uses and makes poisons, I will end it OOCly. The second, I will return an unaddressed and unsigned letter to the person looking for the poison, giving them very specific instructions about how the transaction will be taken.

If all goes well, and is RPed correctly, they will not know that Key was the one who made the poisons, and leave happily knowing that they got what they wanted.

[pulindar]

feniox - 3/12/2005 12:26 PM

Depending on who asks him about poison his answer will be different, I had a roleplay with another character about 30 minutes ago about poison crafting (which I was subsequently rewarded 1000xp by a GM for ) where I admitted I was a poison crafter, however when talking to my friends I act completely differently.

i know i was the one that you RPed with nice job by the way excellent maybe you could give me some pointers some time in RPing as of yet im not so good btw i got 400which was my first time getting any from RPing so im very happy about it i think it means im getting better and i made that character to enhance my RP so thanks for the learning process feniox


as for poison being evil well i suppose that you guys convinced me that its not evil, i was having trouble thinking on how it would be evil but felt that it was i shall go over to it being netraul in that perspective. But i still feel that it is caotic in a way no one has yet mentioned that so im unsure if you guys agree or just plain didn't get to it in your responces. Also i doubt most people would do poison and people who do would be strongly looked down upon if it was found out they did by most people because asaine feir said society doesn't look positively at it. also eight-bit in another post suggested making poison illegal and i liked the idea because it would make it harder for regular people to get items with poison in them and would show more of a feeling of the society as i persieved it. Maybe your right Orth and my idea about the rewards was bad esspecially with the trade skill charts. But we're trying to make this seem like RL right and if someone knew that someone else was making bombs in their house then the person who found out would probably be pretty freaked out and may even try to do something with the law. Sure everybody has the materials but not everybody uses them, anybody can go and get some smll spider poison even a level 1 although it might be hard for one of them they could do it but most people don't make poison. thats what i have to say and thanks for responding to my post all i learn more every day here even if i still keep some of my own ideas i will use some of yours too hope ya don't mind.

P.S. edited : there are alot of things that aren't evil in RL that are illegal by the way

[qane]

I tend to think of poison as a cultural thing. There are hunter-gatherer societies who use poisons for hunting. Depending on the poison, one could argue this is a fairly humane way to hunt, as some kinds of poisons would involve doing less overt damaging and wounding to the animal while it is conscious in order to kill it. Of course, there are other poisons that are quite unpleasant. Many of these groups are fairly peaceable otherwise, in other words, I would not agree that it is fair to call them "evil." Other culures, like ours, consider poison use to be a pretty disreputable way to fight. The culture that the idea of Paladins came out of is one of those.

So, it seems to me, we could decide that poison use in some areas is considered evil and should bring sanctions, while others it's perfectly fine. Not sure if the GMs have a position on this, but it might be a community - i.e., our - decision.

That being said, I think for Druids to use "natural essences" like spider venoms ought to be perfectly fine, unless perhaps they are LN and live in an area where poison use is frowned upon.

[Eight-Bit]

Oh well. Bottom line, if you're not TN, CN, or Evil, you shouldn't use poison.

Am I right?

[ZeroVega]

 I'd think so Eight-Bit, but I'll go ahead and add in my own thoughts here just so I can say I did.
ÂÂSomeone said earlier that if Bob makes poison to support his family, and sells it to a man that then uses it to kill the mayor of a town, would that make Bob evil?
 My thoughts on using poison are, it shouldÂdefinatlyÂnot be used by LG, NG, or LN. It doesn't really matter what the poison does, I mean really think about it, the point of poison is to take a fight of skill between two parties and turn it in one's favor by use of a weakening agent. To decrease one's strength, constitution, or dextarity so your victory will be easier. (Hence using poison is a chaotic/evil act, with the exception to that rule being TN)
 As to the above making the poison, well it's very very shady. Is making poison evil? Well if you're just making it to make it I'd say no, kinda stupid but not evil. However if Bob sells it to Shady Character, that makes Bob a down right idiot. Really think about this, you might be a TN Bard looking to find a cure for a certain poison, but you'll certainly have enough intelligence to NOT sell it to people that look suspicious. I say making the poison it's self is not evil, however selling it is Chaotic.
 I also understand what others are saying about Druids and poison, well that's very interesting and I don't have much to say that can go against that, so yeah you're probably right. Druids are Always Neutral, meaning they're about balance to some degree, I highly doubt a NG Druid would over his enemy in millions of maggots and watch them eat him alive, but then again I wouldn't put it past a NE Druid. Using poison for hunting animalsÂI wouldÂput into the Chaotic category however I've never played a druid nor do I understand them fully so I can't say.

[Harlas Ravelkione]

The main purpose of poison is not killing people. Poison can be used as a drug in small doses, and it can be used for hunting, to paralyze or instantly kill prey (bloodflow stops and the poison should not spread throughout the body). A hunter might use poison from berries on his arrows - why not? And he might use it in tobacco or spirits to get drunk/high - why not?

All a question of RPing it the way you intet it to be.

Harlas

[lunchboxkilla]

My View on this is like this.

Back ages ago when war was done with sowrd and sheild and armor... The fighers would use any dirty trick in the book to get an upper hand on their foe. IE putting a Knee between some one's legs and hitting very very hard... In the D&D relms..... Any thing should go if it's a fight to the death... My Cleric taunts and that would be an evil thing...Not really honerble in a fight but hey it gets the job done quickly. If poison give the upper edge in a fight to the death then by all means it should be used. We're here to fight the bloodstone army.. and we neeed every little bit every little trick every little cloak and dagger action we can in order to win.If it gives us an inch go a mile...

And no I'm not promting cheating the game mechs or break rules..

If a CG cleric cast Greater Restoration does that make him evil? or better yet... Destruction on a monster that is about to kill a helplss family will that make him evil? its all how it is used...

[Zhofe]

In the real time period that D&D is based on, yes, battle was done however it could be, and the victor was who was left standing. What we have here is a romanticized version of the past however. In this world, our brave Arthurian-esque knights would usually sooner choose death than dishonor.

That being said, there is room for interpretation of Honor.

Quin uses Knockdown, allowing him to attack an enemy without fear of reprisal. His justification is that to allow an evil blow to land is to allow a victory of evil, if but a small one.

Poison is a bit different however. It is not something that takes skill to really use. (atleast in the case of poisoned weapons) I would not say that only evil or neutral people would use it, but there should certainly be some restrictions. I personally think that Druids, Rangers, and Rogues should be allowed to use it (perhaps a barbarian if the RP was right.) regardless of the alignment. Fighters and Clerics should be able to use it only if they are chaotic Neutral or evil. And Wizards, Sorcerers, Bards, etc, should be able to use it if neutral or evil .... Though, that is just me ...

As for making it, I would say that lawfull and neutral good could not make it .... and other than that, it should be fine. Again, just my opinion, and I think that there is alreadyt a good system of restriction on the poison for now.

[Eight-Bit]

Zhofe - 3/13/2005 10:02 PM

In the real time period that D&D is based on, yes, battle was done however it could be, and the victor was who was left standing. What we have here is a romanticized version of the past however. In this world, our brave Arthurian-esque knights would usually sooner choose death than dishonor.

That being said, there is room for interpretation of Honor.

Quin uses Knockdown, allowing him to attack an enemy without fear of reprisal. His justification is that to allow an evil blow to land is to allow a victory of evil, if but a small one.

[red]Poison is a bit different however. It is not something that takes skill to really use[/red]. (atleast in the case of poisoned weapons) I would not say that only evil or neutral people would use it, but there should certainly be some restrictions. I personally think that Druids, Rangers, and Rogues should be allowed to use it (perhaps a barbarian if the RP was right.) regardless of the alignment. Fighters and Clerics should be able to use it only if they are chaotic Neutral or evil. And Wizards, Sorcerers, Bards, etc, should be able to use it if neutral or evil .... Though, that is just me ...

As for making it, I would say that lawfull and neutral good could not make it .... and other than that, it should be fine. Again, just my opinion, and I think that there is alreadyt a good system of restriction on the poison for now.

Poison takes an exceptional amount of skill to use properly, expressed by the epic dexterity you need to use the best of the poisons with total success. If Poisoning a weapon was simple, and everyone could do it, the Use Poison feat would be given out at level 1.

[earth monkey]

I was thinking how a goblin tribe might look at poison as a type of magic. When the shaman or Witch doctor blesses your blade it will make our enemies weaker. I do think it is just a tool. But for us characters that come from low tech backgrounds it might be a way to add a new element to our RP.
The thing that makes the poison feared is its sneakiness, and the way someone uses it. There are evil majics and evil poisons, perhaps only certain food poisons can be made by evil people. If the way that we are using poison to add damage to a weapon is evil, then any blade blessing paladin is just as evil.