The MMO is a Skill Based Game that encourages RP

[Leanthar]

In the MMO you will be able to create any character that you can think of and this means that you are no longer limited by a class with arbitrary skills and/or attributes/stats that you must adhere to via coded systems. For instance if you wanted to create a red haired Dwarven Berserker then you would create your character and through the course of the characters life equip him or her with the items that are associated to the skill(s) you wish to improve upon (more about this coming in future posts) and have fun. Almost any combination is possible, which gives you (the player) a great deal of freedom in creating a very personalized character.

See the image below for one possible dwarf character.

SOME of the possible Main Skills (as equipped):
- Defense
- Offense
- Dodge
- Light Blunt
- Axes
- Light Armor
- Spellpraying


SOME of the possible Refined Skills (as equipped)
- Battle Focus
- Cunning
- Disarm
- Execution
- Fracture
- Frontline Fury
- Hamstring
- Improvisation
- Leg Sweep
- Misdirection
- Mutilate
- Off-Hand Attack
- Parry
- Quick Strike
- Ravage
- Sunder
- Surprise Attack
- Weaken Armor
- Weapon Master

Possible General Skills
- Any

[ycleption]

First, I am very glad the team has gone in this direction rather than a class-based system (I'm not going to launch into my class-based systems rant here), however, I have a few concerns. First, some classes in the current system not only are a set of abilities and training and such, but also represents a certain role within the world; paladin and cleric are the ones that spring most obviously to mind. Will the MMO have some way of representing this kind of role at character creation, or have certain skills that are exclusive to those fulfilling certain roles? I would hate to see the prestige of having a touch of divine favor go away to accommodate a more open character system. Many of the established organizations (monastic orders, paladin orders, etc) are only open to certain classes currently; will the MMO have some way of limiting membership of these organizations, or will the lore that is based around them change?
What I really would be sad to see happen is the flexibility of the system you seem to be describing abused to make super characters without regard to RP decisions. It's a little harder to do that in nwn, because of multiclass restrictions, the character submission process, etc.Will there be equivalent limitations to prevent rp-ignoring godly cookie cutter builds from springing up?
Thanks.

[vgn]

Seeing as how the goal of the game is to promote RP, I doubt we'll see Roles like Priest and Paladin going away. I can't speak for the team and this is by no means any official answer, but I would venture the following guesses:

Roles/Titles/Group-Membership will likely be defined by certain rule sets.
For example, a priest of Katia:
1. Has a neutral-ish alignment.
2. Has skills focused on divine nature magic (plants, animals, earth, etc)
3. Might have developed skills to speak with animals.
4. Has skills in using leather or cloth armors.
5. Has skills in using a staff as a weapon.
Anyone declaring devotion to Katia and having some (or all) of the above could be a "priest" and through RP and development of those skills to higher levels different titles could be granted, etc....

Second example, a paladin of Toran:
1. Is Lawful and Good.
2. Has focused in fighting skills like heavy armor and long sword.
3. Has focused on horse riding skills.
4. Has focused on protection and possibly healing (laying hands?) divine spells.
Anyone declaring devotion to Toran and having some (or all) of the above skills could be at least a holy warrior of Toran. I'm not sure if a title such as "paladin" will continue through but if so, I would imagine titles like Paladin, Champion, etc, would be earned through RP and development of skills.

If it's not like that....well then I'm sure there is some way to have those roles, but that is how I imagine it would work well with the system Leanthar hinted at.

[zenvidar]

So, it has certain similarities to World of Warcraft and Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. Then I could easily create a character similar to a monk, or some sort of broader stealthy character.

[lonnarin]

Originally Posted by vgn

Seeing as how the goal of the game is to promote RP, I doubt we'll see Roles like Priest and Paladin going away. I can't speak for the team and this is by no means any official answer, but I would venture the following guesses:

Roles/Titles/Group-Membership will likely be defined by certain rule sets.
For example, a priest of Katia:
1. Has a neutral-ish alignment.
2. Has skills focused on divine nature magic (plants, animals, earth, etc)
3. Might have developed skills to speak with animals.
4. Has skills in using leather or cloth armors.
5. Has skills in using a staff as a weapon.
Anyone declaring devotion to Katia and having some (or all) of the above could be a "priest" and through RP and development of those skills to higher levels different titles could be granted, etc....

Second example, a paladin of Toran:
1. Is Lawful and Good.
2. Has focused in fighting skills like heavy armor and long sword.
3. Has focused on horse riding skills.
4. Has focused on protection and possibly healing (laying hands?) divine spells.
Anyone declaring devotion to Toran and having some (or all) of the above skills could be at least a holy warrior of Toran. I'm not sure if a title such as "paladin" will continue through but if so, I would imagine titles like Paladin, Champion, etc, would be earned through RP and development of skills.

If it's not like that....well then I'm sure there is some way to have those roles, but that is how I imagine it would work well with the system Leanthar hinted at.

Indeed, what I like most in a skill-based system is that it doesn't make you nerf your character advancement and power just to conform to the religions. Clerics in Layonara's NWN version need to often take extra feats just to use one specific weapon, or deal with horribly offset stats skewed so that a cleric in robes or light armor just isn't feasable. With light armor, unarmored and heavy variants all being skills you can work on in your own leisure, you can have a whole lot more flexibility in matching the archetypes of a religious order without sacrificing much needed eschew feats or spell power feats just to be accepted as one of the order. Now we can actually have those ilsarian clerics who excell at archery on par with a ranged specialist, or a high attack-rolled and beefy Voraxian warpriest who isn't limited by low HP or a limp wristed attack roll. And if we get unarmed and unarmored skills in the mix, Aeridenites can finally fulfill their vows not to bear weapons and LIVE to brag about it!

[Dorganath]

There will be some skills/items/etc. that have explicit deity restrictions. Most are without such restrictions, however. Also, there are unarmed skills, and other skills that require that one is unarmed to use them and are more effective for someone with a high unarmed skill.

[freemen2]

Ok now I'm drooling LoL

[Link092]

It may be weird, but I'm giving the team an imaginary hug.

[Gulnyr]

Will the skills be set on skill trees, where one skill may require another skill as a prerequisite, or is each skill meant to stand alone? Some of one and some of the other?

Will skills have skill levels, with more focus in a skill granting a greater benefit, or will skills be more or less like D&D and NWN feats, either on or off, you have it or you don't? Or, again, some of one and some of the other?

These questions came to mind while I was considering specialization, and how the cost for specialization should be a penalty in broader areas (unlike the simple method of D&D where a Fighter automatically knows how to use pretty much every weapon, melee or ranged, with a high degree of competence). Using D&D and NWN terms, I was thinking of how focused Weapon Masters are on one, single weapon, how they mentally become one with their weapon of choice. They are truly specialized, so much so that while such a combatant would surely be dangerous at any time, a Weapon Master using a different weapon that his weapon of choice should be kind of awkward. In mechanical terms, he should have traded or eschewed skill with many weapons in order to become the most skilled warrior possible with his chosen weapon, leaving little or no skill with short swords, longswords, maces, axes, lances, spears, halberds, bows, or anything other than his chosen great sword, for example.

And that got me thinking about whether skills would be on trees, requiring some skills to learn others (which is sometimes good, depending on the skill), and whether skills had levels or were more like D&D feats ("I can" or "I can't"), since both of those help determine just how specialized a character can be, whether with weapons or spells or smithing or cooking.

[Leanthar]

".....Will the skills be set on skill trees, where one skill may require another skill as a prerequisite, or is each skill meant to stand alone? Some of one and some of the other?....."

As it stands now every skill stands on its own. There are no skill trees. With that said, every skill gets better as you use it. There may be sub-skills that are opened under that given skill that can be further improved upon. So for instance there are refined combat skills (as it stands now) that fall under specific weapon skills, but it is not really a skill tree as they are thought of most of the time; it is just access to another skill for that given weapon. And that new skill can be improved upon with use, just like all other skills (as it stands now).

"....Will skills have skill levels, with more focus in a skill granting a greater benefit, or will skills be more or less like D&D and NWN feats, either on or off, you have it or you don't? Or, again, some of one and some of the other?...."

All skills can be improved upon and improving that skills means you will be better at it. They are not just "on" or "off". As you use a skill it improves. If you don't use a skill it does not improve. To add to this, your attributes modify all skills so it will be important to improve the proper attributes when "leveling up" in order to fit a "class" that one is trying to become better at over time.

".....These questions came to mind while I was considering specialization, and how the cost for specialization should be a penalty in broader areas (unlike the simple method of D&D where a Fighter automatically knows how to use pretty much every weapon, melee or ranged, with a high degree of competence). Using D&D and NWN terms, I was thinking of how focused Weapon Masters are on one, single weapon, how they mentally become one with their weapon of choice. They are truly specialized, so much so that while such a combatant would surely be dangerous at any time, a Weapon Master using a different weapon that his weapon of choice should be kind of awkward. In mechanical terms, he should have traded or eschewed skill with many weapons in order to become the most skilled warrior possible with his chosen weapon, leaving little or no skill with short swords, longswords, maces, axes, lances, spears, halberds, bows, or anything other than his chosen great sword, for example..."

We are on the same page. Every weapon requires a skill to use it and improving that skill will give you more refined combat skills to use with that weapon, but it is not really a skill tree as most think of it. It is more or less just opening another skill for use with that weapon that can be improved upon by using that new skill. To use a skill the proper object must be equipped (specific weapons or specific armor for instance).

One of the really cool things about a skill system, and something I am seeing more clearly as we get further along is just how cool it can become. You are no longer limited by a "class" and what that class should be "good at". Any character can use any skill at any time, but they need to use it a lot in order to become good at it. What is neat about the system is that it fits a world quite well because as new game systems are brought in you don't have to force the system in to a class (and balance all of those classes), you just create skills around that system that supports it (and balance the skill line and new system). Then players that want their characters to be involved in that system use those skills, those that don't want to be involved with that system don't use those skills at all (crafting for instance). But you could take it even further to other systems, vehicles, sieges, scholary, rulership etc. (and I am not saying we have those systems--they are examples only). Some players will want to be involved in some (or all) of those systems and some willl not, but because the systems would have skills to support them it is the players choice at what to do. This makes for a wide open game world and allows the players play as they desire, which increases the immersiveness and the feeling of it being a world, and the replayability (amoungst other things).

The added bonus is that it makes the job for a developer a little easier in that we can roll out systems over time and not force them in to something (a class for instance) and destroy the class balance, we create the skills for that system as it is being developed (keeping all other systems and skills in mind of course). Which in my opinion is also much better for the player base.

/* I just want to point out that things can change during development and testing, just understand that please.