Visual Attachments

[miltonyorkcastle]

Yeah, so if you have a sword equipped, the sheathe appears at your side, or on your back, or whatever. If you have a backpack or cloak equipped... you get the picture. The point is will we be able to dynamically display equipped items as well as clothing, gear, etc?

[orth]

We are trying to support many equipped items with model updates. Not only when they are equipped, when they are stowed as well (ie shield, bow, two handed weapons on your back, single handled weapons at your side).

Bracers, gloves, boots, cloaks, helms/hoods, shoulderpads and armor/clothing will also be visually represented. Smaller things like rings, earrings, amulets will most likely not have that visual representation in game.

[Doc-Holiday]

Something important to keep in mind, and a lesson learned by EQ2, is that people do not always like the armor or weapon style presented by the new things they've found.

Just as we players prefer a particular look or style for our characters, so do MMO players. It can be frustrating at times when a player finds an outfit that matches their character only to have it ruined by a new article or a level that renders the equipment useless.

The action taken to fix this is to allow players access to both an inventory screen and an appearence screen. If nothing is equiped in the apperance screen the default apperance of the armor and items shows (Often rendering a character looking like they dressed themselves in a dark wardrobe room). If something is placed in the appearance section, the armor then takes on the "appearance" of the equiped item but not it's stats. Thus allowing a character to keep a prefered style while keeping up with level nessesary equipment and class related equipment that may or may not look hideous.

[miltonyorkcastle]

Well, I agree to that in some sense, Doc, as I have always maintained specific "looks" for my characters. However, I'd really like to see that when you buy a sword, or pick it up, that if you plan to use that sword, you use it regardless of how ridiculous it looks.

In other words, while I take full advantage of altering the look of my weapons and armor here in NWN, I might actually prefer that option being unavailable.

To counteract everyone wearing cookie-cutter armors and such, perhaps a script that randomizes the look of looted armors/weapons could be implemented, and different styles (not different armor type, just different designs) of armor/weapons could be sold in different parts of the world/different cities. In this way folks could identify themselves with a region through wearing the local armor design, or someone could try faking being from a certain, region, etc. You could even have regions that specialize in a certain type of armor, say, light armor, so they have many designs and specialty light armors, but they have to import their heavy armors, so the heavy armor you buy from that region actually looks like armor from somewhere else.

Also, this means that armor designs that can't be bought could be dropped, so that adventurers don't just covet their found armors for having a special ability, but also for having a look few others have.

I'd also support a crafting system for design so that when you make an armor, you decide on it's design at the outset, and from there on out, that's what the armor looks like. You could then produce "signature" designs and such, and people could identify a character's work. "Oh yeah, I have a set of platemail made by Seteece. Quality smith, he is."

[Gulnyr]

Originally Posted by Doc-Holiday

Something important to keep in mind, and a lesson learned by EQ2, is that people do not always like the armor or weapon style presented by the new things they've found...

There are some opinions on this posted in a long and eclectic thread (more specifically somewhere around my post here). While I think that a rise in magical power of an item should equal a drop in how malleable the appearance is, therefore limiting how much 'good' equipment's appearance can be changed, I understand the 'I want my stuff to match and look good' mindset, too. Just, y'know, let's not have full plate that looks like normal clothing or a bikini; that's stupid. While I can imagine armor that is magically altered to have a permanent illusion or be permanently invisible, that shouldn't be something players can just decide to make their characters' armor be.

And though I understand the need to appeal to a wide audience (and would, in this case, normally call 'dumbing down'), I really like what Milt's saying up there.

[Doc-Holiday]

My sentiments exactly, my post was made assuming certain things are just not greatly changeable. However I would like some flexability in appearance.

Perhapse take a page from Morrowind... layering... Wearing shirts of diffrent cuts and colors with tunics and armor overtop. Pants, dresses, kilts, so on so forth. Some very attractive options there.

[Gulnyr]

Originally Posted by miltonyorkcastle

To counteract everyone wearing cookie-cutter armors and such...

I was considering armor styles and protection this morning, and felt silly that I hadn't considered separate pieces before.

Separate slots for each body part could also help prevent cookie-cutter armor. Torso, upper arm, lower arm, hand... Then characters would have actual bits of armor to wear on certain areas, giving a similar variation of styles like the customization tools allow now except that each bit has its own armor rating. A breastplate, for example, would give your torso a high rating, while your arms would be unprotected unless you also added armor there (or had some sort of magical protection). The layering concept might even be worked in somehow.

Let's say there's an archer shopping for some leather trousers. Leather trousers cover the pelvis, upper leg, and lower leg slots (five total). When the player equips the trousers onto the character, all five slots are taken by that one action. Easy on the player.

What if the archer also had knee pads, though? Maybe knee pads are in a category of auxiliary accessories, bonus things that can be added to armor to improve or alter it somehow, even if only in appearance. But how would those sorts of things be applied? Maybe knee pads can be sewn in by a tailor, or even crudely by the archer (if he's not also a tailor). Are knee pads removable? What if someone without long pants wants to wear knee pads? Lots of questions.

Yeah, so, it's part of an idea.

[Marswipp]

[rough breakdown]
Chain mail, leathers, and clothes:
coif (chain)/ hat, helm/helmet (Leather)
shirt (torso, arms, wrists)
leggings
gloves
boots

Plate and scale mail:
Helm/helmet
Breastplate
Shoulder plates
Upper arm and/or lower arm
gauntlets (wrist and hand)
boots
[/rough breakdown]

[ycleption]

One thing that I think would be really nice is rather than have set item slots for each body part, allowing a total number of items that can be distributed differently. In nwn, for instance, you have to make a fairly significant mechanical sacrifice if you think your character wouldn't wear any jewelry, for example, or if you want your character to be barefoot and cloakless, since the game structure is designed for each item slot to fill a role.

I'd like a system where a Deliarite could have a glittering ring (or two!) on each finger, while a Krashin barbarian might eschew jewelry, but wear stacks of enchanted furs and carry magical totemic statuettes, and still others could choose to have an nwn-style balanced assortment of items. Obviously, the system would have to ensure nobody was wearing two helmets or whatever, but it would be really nice to have a system that was flexible enough to allow players to decide what a character would wear, rather than the game structure dictating it.

[miltonyorkcastle]

Good call, Yclep.

[stragen]

One of the best thing in Layo, over vanilla NWN is the ability to create a complete look or design.

What would be nice if those designs could be 'captured' into a outfit design that could be saved, and loaded by the player.

Want the outfit of a paladin of Toran? Load a default version, then add some minor tweaks.

Play a tailor? A customer orders a new outfit, and they get your 'summer' style. Next season, it's a new style.

I guess more important then preventing people from alternating crafted or dropped gear, is to only allow it to be alternated a finite number of times. Or make it harder to alter with each change.

[zenvidar]

The customization system in layonara is nice to be able to change the look of your item. The same could be true in the mmo. You get a new monk robe but your character prefers the simple priest's robe. (which I always like on my monks). You can change it up and it looks so. Or even customize the colors of the backpacks you have on your back.

I like that idea of the seasonal styles. That would be interesting.

[Gulnyr]

I was thinking of encumbrance and the bulk of things for some reason, which led me to thinking of how characters look carrying all the junk they carry, which reminded me of this thread, particularly Doc's post.

I don't really have anything of substance to add, but decided to post the opinion that it's too bad extraneous, non-equipped stuff doesn't appear on a character sometimes. If everyone is so concerned with their characters looking cool, they might stop trying to haul around all that stuff if it were visible. How cool can you look with those ten bags hanging around you, y'know?

[orth]

Character customization seems to be a vital feature for making the players happy, but at the same time, there are those hard core players who believe what you wear is how you should look. We have tried to cater to both types with our planned system as this feature can be very divisive.

To that end we will be introducing a system where players will be able to utilize a Fashion Illusionary Device. Other players will be able to decide whether or not they want to accept or deny this illusion as long as they have enough Perception.

The Fashion Illusionary Device (not its real name right now) will allow you to appear any way you like. Yes this will mean full plate armor can appear to be a nice flowing dress if such is how you wish.

Characters who frown upon such an illusion will be able to deny it as long as they have minimal Perception and at the same time use this 'feature' as a snobbish way to roleplay. "I believe in real fashion, thank you very much!"

This system will also allow us to stretch our art assets a little furthur, since we wont have to make 14 different types of Copper Axes to appease those who appreciate customization. It also functions as a minimal economical drain which we can use to offset some of our economic faucets.

[Gulnyr]

That is somehow very pleasing to me. I have no idea what it is exactly, but I'm definitely enjoying that on several levels.

[HooD!uM]

will ring and necklances still be set at 2/1 ? how about earrings and brooches? will they be implemented?

[Dorganath]

At the moment, the intent is:

Rings: 2
Amulet/necklace: 1
Ear rings: 2
Brooch/pin: No

I believe also the intent is to make these things display visually in some way, but whether or not that is in for initial release is another matter.