Spell Line Skills

[Leanthar]

We wanted to introduce a few skills that are being worked on for the MMO and figured that spell-lines would be a good place to start. Please understand that everything in this post is subject to change during further implementation as well as testing and balancing. We can't answer much more than what is posted here as so much is still up in the air.

Enjoy!

Spellweaving: The traditional wizard skill, Spellweaving is all about raw power and the shaping of it into harmful and useful ways. They are masters of the Al'Noth, which is our new term for magic (instead of weave) and are able to channel it in pure forms or in more colorful elemental types. To spice things up this time around, each elemental conveyance has been given some sort of triggered ability just so that their utility was clear in multiple situations.

Spellweavers dont have as solid crowd control abilities as Spellcallers do, but to balance that out almost all their spells have side effects that can easily make up for what they lack in that area (for example; freezing spells that cause damage but also slow down the victim). Combined with the ability to dish out more "burst" damage than any other spellcasting class, Spellweavers certainly will have a new way of fitting into their "glass cannon" role.


Darkweaving: The main idea behind having an individual skill line for a dark magician was to avoid an issue we constantly faced in the nwn community; "Was that spell an evil spell? Or is it how it is used?". At first glance that may seem a simple answer but some of the spells we had really danced along a thin line and it was mostly opinion as to which side it belonged to at any given time. Darkweaving is our answer to that question. If you are practicing this skill you are up to no good or simply ethics and morals hold little influence in your life.

While that was the reasoning behind its existence, it still needed to have a unique flavor, we didnt just want this to be an "evil" spellweaver, we wanted them to have a methodology exclusive to them and that no other caster class had (or had little of). So the Darkweaver became the slow spell-torturer (or damage over time). Their spells may not pack an immediate punch, but they add up over time, ticking dangerously with each passing moment and skillfully draining any useful attributes that one takes for granted. Curses, poisons, diseases are all in the arsenal of a Darkweaver and with their vampiric abilities they will outlast most others.


Spellpraying: Now this was a difficult one to get a good start on. Layonara has many deities, and they are all completely unique from one another. Sure there is some overlap here and there but we really couldnt say that all Spellprayers were the quintessential "cleric" as other games do because it simply doesnt apply to Layonara. I mean we even have gods that by dogma wouldnt encourage any healing at all. So this was certainly a tricky thing to setup and it is probably one of the skills that will require the most work to get right (and balanced).

For now we think of Spellpraying being in version 0.5, while all the other skills are a clear 1.0. So this skill is subject to much change. The basics of what we do have are oriented in capturing very global themes that all our deities do have, which is the channeling of a divine gift to bless or smite things. In addition, Spellpraying brought the "Deities excluded" field to the game. This field basically disallows followers of certain deities to learn a particular spell from any of the skill lines that are marked as being forbidden by that deity. Basically what this field brought us was the ability to not have Aeridinites casting Venomous Touch (From Darkweaving) and have some form of control and flavor while we inject more flavor into Spellpraying. With the "Deities Excluded" addition we are also able to apply it to entire skills (or spells as stated above).


Spellgrowing: Layonara has always been based around nature in some manner and we have always had Druids or Rangers of some kind. Clearly we needed a skill-line that supported the nature loving type. Spellgrowing is a very party friendly skill-line, having some very unique buffs, some excellent healing over time spells, as well as spells with integrated crowd control.

Keeping to the tradition of shape shifting, we also implemented that in this version of Layonara, the shape the caster takes depends on animal totems that they acquire through questing in the world and each shape allowing them to do something in particular. Having for instance a fox shape will allow them to scout and cover distances in a somewhat stealthy outfit, or perhaps something more feral like a feline or a wolf to deal damage as nature intends.


Spellsinging: Next we move on to the bardic skill line. This tends to be the made fun of and underdog in most games, so we figured it was about time it had some severe loving so that it would not become something that was a quirky thing to do but actually something that would be sought after by many. Enter the Spellsinger. At its core, this skill line provides the best party support in the game, hands down. It can restore, enhance, and ward just about every variable that is important to all characters and a well played Spellsinger may be able to keep a party up and running longer than a Spellprayer.

The beauty of the Spellsinger is the fact that one of its main attributes is Agility, which means that it already lends itself to a whole different set of skills than other casters are likely to be using. A Spellsinger will be able to use finesse type weapons and skills with ease due to their attributes and the plethora of aiding spells it will have. Which automatically takes them out of the usual rut they find themselves in with most other games. Sure other casters can use those skills as well but they are likely to not be as "gifted" in them due to their agility.


Spellcalling: This was a late addition in the design process. We basically needed some sort of summoner class but we werent really happy with what we had. It seemed too much of a copy of a spellweaver with a few summons here and there and that didnt seem to justify an entire skill line. Essentially it is a character whose magic comes from the often thin line between worlds and not generally from their environment.

The Spellcaller, at its most basic is a summoner. The summons have unique abilities and grow in power as the Spellcaller increases on their own. But why stop there? If these guys can control forces from beyond, they should be able to manifest it in all sorts of fun ways, and thats what we did. In the end Spellcallers ended up with a lot of utility and some really fun mechanics in addition to having a way to strengthen and use their summons cleverly in combat.

[Blackguy]

Finnaly some mmo terms i can relate to. The future looks bright. Thank you for sharing this past birthday nugget with us

[Marswipp]

I sure hope things turn out as planned!

[TheGreatProphetSquishy]

Alright, I know I said I wouldn't wander around here As much (I lied =P I love checking up on you silly guys!)
And this..
Looks completley awesome! Good job team writers. In playing a Shadow Weaver in FR cannon for a bit, the Darkweaving looks particularly awesome.

[miltonyorkcastle]

A little comment on the Spellpraying skill line:

I hope that "balancing" it means taking more than combat into account. That is, the followers of certain deities should be better at combat than others. To be even more specific, I hope there is more selection than attack/damage and healing. Spell/skill lines that do nothing for combat at all (at least not directly). For instance, perhaps Prunilla's prayers actually summon food. Wouldn't that be awesome? "I'm hungry. Dear Prunilla, grace me with your divine care." Poof! An apple appears in your hand. Sure, the priest of Prunilla may be much worse in combat than some other priests, but Prunilla's not about combat at all. So then I'm looking for the classic skill-boost spells (like boosting "lore" type skills, or lock picking) but also just plain useful non-combat spells/skills. A spell that grows a tree. That's it. No mechanical benefit in combat. But hey. You freakin' grew a tree in, like, two minutes! Holy Katia!

I think you catch my drift.

[kenty191]

Spellsinging woo! You know I had given some thought to the fact that the new incarnation of Layonara might not include anything 'bardly'. Glad to see I was wrong!

[Nehetsrev]

Originally Posted by miltonyorkcastle

A little comment on the Spellpraying skill line:

"... Sure, the priest of Prunilla may be much worse in combat than some other priests, but Prunilla's not about combat at all...."

*Lyle chimes in* Obviously spoken by someone who ain' nevah fought wit' some 'o the more rambunctious Layonaran weeds while tendin' their garden. *chuckles*

[EdTheKet]

Originally Posted by miltonyorkcastle

A little comment on the Spellpraying skill line:

I hope that "balancing" it means taking more than combat into account. That is, the followers of certain deities should be better at combat than others. To be even more specific, I hope there is more selection than attack/damage and healing. Spell/skill lines that do nothing for combat at all (at least not directly). For instance, perhaps Prunilla's prayers actually summon food. Wouldn't that be awesome? "I'm hungry. Dear Prunilla, grace me with your divine care." Poof! An apple appears in your hand. Sure, the priest of Prunilla may be much worse in combat than some other priests, but Prunilla's not about combat at all. So then I'm looking for the classic skill-boost spells (like boosting "lore" type skills, or lock picking) but also just plain useful non-combat spells/skills. A spell that grows a tree. That's it. No mechanical benefit in combat. But hey. You freakin' grew a tree in, like, two minutes! Holy Katia!

I think you catch my drift.

Yep, and that's one of the reasons why it's now at "version 0.5" and subject to much change. With 28 deities, it's a big chunk of work

[Marswipp]

Aeridin will be getting the best of the healing spells, right? (Of course!)

[ycleption]

Originally Posted by miltonyorkcastle

That is, the followers of certain deities should be better at combat than others.

This is the only thing I take issue with in your post... yes, overall, a Voraxian should have better combat type skills, but maybe Prunilla could get a "defend hearth and home" skill, with massive combat bonuses when within a certain radius of the player-designated home (or maybe kicks in if they own housing, or something). Obviously, Aeridin might get bonuses vs. undead. Ilsareans could get a skill which allows them to pick another character as their true love and, should they be in danger (fall below a certain health threshold), true love's defense kicks in, transforming the Ilsaren into a deadly force. Etc.

So, while these specific ideas might be too difficult to implement or not effective or whatever, but even some of the less warlike spellprayers should be able to make the Voraxians turn there head and stare in narrow situations.

[Gulnyr]

Originally Posted by ycleption

So, while these specific ideas might be too difficult to implement or not effective or whatever, but even some of the less warlike spellprayers should be able to make the Voraxians turn there head and stare in narrow situations.

Certainly, but "better at combat" is a general statement with a general meaning. In general, a Voraxian with Vorax's blessing is going to make Prunillans and Ilsarans of similar "level" seem less competent in a fight. That only makes sense for a god who is all about battle; his blessings and his followers are going to be more generally useful in any combat situation, not just specific cases. That means they are "better at combat."

[ycleption]

Originally Posted by Gulnyr

In general, a Voraxian with Vorax's blessing is going to make Prunillans and Ilsarans of similar "level" seem less competent in a fight.

Originally Posted by ycleption

yes, overall, a Voraxian should have combat type skills,

^This was supposed to have read "better combat type skills" :P

So I absolutely agree with you, I was just trying to point out that while Milty's examples would certainly be cool, situationally appropriate combat skills should not be overlooked for gods that are not warlike, and that "game balance" (however you choose to see that) can be achieved by giving some combat powers to all deities, so the players who care about such things can play a follower of whatever god they want without worrying about being drastically under-powered.

Right now, the biggest mechanical differences (other than alignment and race of typical followers) between the deities are what equipment their followers can use... and lo and behold, the ones who can wear full plate and get fun weapons are the most played deities. I just don't want to see an MMO where everyone plays Voraxians because they have better combat power, and I think one way to steer players away from that is to give follows of prunilla, ilsare, goran, aragon, etc, some specific combat powers.

Again, not saying that hey, here's a tree, isn't a great idea, not saying that Voraxian's shouldn't overall get the best war powers, but players get inured to even the coolest skills, and I think that even RP-focused players often make character decisions based on mechanics.

[Gulnyr]

One thing about NWN (and Layonara as built within it) is that combat and quests are the only ways to gain meaningful experience points. The classes are all adventuring classes, and the skills and spells are mostly focused on adventuring. While it's not impossible to make a non-adventuring character who is only a smith or a baker, that character won't really go anywhere level-wise (and will have a hard time getting started since no one has any resources as a brand new level 1 character). The game isn't set up to truly allow non-adventurers the way they should be implemented.

The new Layonara doesn't have to be that way. Non-adventuring characters could be viable from the very beginning. It may be possible that Ichabod Ironbanger can be created and played only as a smith, starting the game as a newly hired apprentice or something. A Hammer of Dorand might adventure, or he might just hang out in the forge and smithy making stuff and blessing other smiths. If it's possible to play a non-adventurer, I think combat-oriented spells and skills offered by every god would not necessarily be important. Will it be that way? I have no idea.

Sure, a big hunk of players may still go for more militant gods and play adventuring characters, but that's the way it goes. Offering non-combatant, non-adventurer characters and the structure and mechanics to let them be complete characters like any fighting adventurer automatically makes places for the gods who aren't about combat. They would fit into the world where they belong instead of being shoehorned into granting battle blessings and such, even if they do still offer one or two for those special circumstances.

[Acacea]

Originally Posted by ycleption

Right now, the biggest mechanical differences (other than alignment and race of typical followers) between the deities are what equipment their followers can use... and lo and behold, the ones who can wear full plate and get fun weapons are the most played deities.

I do think we are all agreeing with each other and are just the types to go for the extra clarification in detail - so I will go ahead and put in what I think about this sentence. Right now, this problem is magnified because we have a single cleric class that comes with a set package. The ones that are the most popular are the ones that, in my opinion, fit that pre-conceived package. The ones that can use full plate, the ones that are combat oriented and such things. The smite clerics work really well with the cleric class. Other gods almost require a multiclass which then loses "clerical" power.

Clerics of non-standard gods (or even standard, but not the stock "cleric") are underdogs because they don't fit the very narrow mold of the cleric class. A cleric of Kith for example is a very sad thing - regardless of your dex your reflexes are never going to be that great, all the tracking skills are cross class, and let's not even go into the whole spear thing. Lucindites don't get any cool magic bonuses and have to sacrifice a lot for arcane knowledge. Katian clerics are considered completely different from druids when they should often be druids. Folian clerics have to multi with ranger and then end up with the weakest of both classes. Same with Brander and rogue, and why in the world doesn't Deliar have the Appraise skill as not only favored but required?

So while of course we all agree that customizing deity blessings is a big thing, it's at .5 okay, etc, I will add that clerics of any deity will be much, much better off than they were before because of the skill based system. They posted the spell lines - why should a Katian priest not have Spellpraying and Spellgrowing? Why should a Lucindite not be also a spellweaver? An Ilsarian a Spellsinger? Look at the potential combat skills - a Voraxian will be better in combat by default, because he will customize his skills to be a war machine as well as a spellprayer. Someone of Prunilla will more likely be focusing on cooking. That is just the cleric diversity from the start by virtue of having a skill-based system - even before you add deity specific blessings and abilities.

Blessings would be wonderful, but my point is that even at .5 completion, a cleric of any deity will be a much better representation than is at all achievable in NWN right now. Since all skills should serve some purpose, a cleric choosing any other skills to go with their deity's portfolio will be useful in those areas. It may not be damage, but it will be use. I am excited to see what deity specific things can be implemented, but in the end to do 28 spell lists would be impossible for what is still essentially a single "class" that will not be used by everyone, so we have to remember the amount of deity customization we can do in other areas to make up for it. Even five deity specific spells for every deity is an additional 140 spells that have to be created. And the more time you spend on Spellpraying, the less time you have to, you know, make sure that things take damage when you hit them, that a transition doesn't port you into the pits of hell, that your armor isn't on backwards, etc.

So yeah, while I still agree, I do think that the whole "everyone picking the full plate one" is not necessarily applicable here because of how vastly different one could make 28 different spellprayers by using the other skill legos to go with the single shared praying skill.