MMO and character approvals

[jrizz]

Sorry if this has already come up.

I feel that the CA process needs to stay in some form. I think lowering the barrier to entry by allowing (legal) PCs to start with no approval or bio but then require one to go beyond some point is a good way to go. This will get people "bought in".

[Marswipp]

[rough, speculative idea]
basic fighter/bowman/spell caster (none to few requirements)
priest/priestess (the player must have read and understand the requirements for the deity of choice)
druid (the player must have read and understand the requirements)
most seriously complex builds (complete character introduction)
[/rough, speculative idea]

[jrizz]

Yeah I think some kind of structure of this kind is good where the more complex the PC the more is needed. Ranging from nothing needed to a CA.

[Marswipp]

I feel like elaborating on the rough outline I thought up...

Basic fighters and archers may have little to no use for magic.

The basic fighters: Halberdiers, pikemen, spearmen, swordsmen, axemen, martial artists (That's most of them, right?)

The basic archers: bowmen and crossbowmen

The basic spell casters: wizards and sorcerers

[EdTheKet]

Originally Posted by Marswipp

I feel like elaborating on the rough outline I thought up...

Basic fighters and archers may have little to no use for magic.

The basic fighters: Halberdiers, pikemen, spearmen, swordsmen, axemen, martial artists (That's most of them, right?)

The basic archers: bowmen and crossbowmen

The basic spell casters: wizards and sorcerers

Please don't forget that we're skill based, not class based

[Marswipp]

I'm not forgetting. I'm providing the terms for soldiers trained with specific weapons. (Excluding the magic users)

[Thak]

I think the concern some share is the possible negligence towards rp without the char apps in place.
But are char apps needed to have an rp environment? In the NWN version, possibly because everyone is on the same shard.
In the MMO there will be a very clear divide between the RP shard and the more lenient open one. To put diffrent types of gamer mentality into each environment they feel more comfortable with.

The problem with char apps in the skill based system is who has to be approved? Everyone that wants to get skill points in spellpraying for instance? Checking every player what kind of skills he's improving after being approved would be very tough. You can learn almost any base skill at any time.

Just my personal thoughts on the subject anywho.

In any case, Layonara is about role playing and we will make every effort for people to enjoy their time rp-ing.

[Eight-Bit]

Just going to put two cents in here...

...actually I might keep them in this case.

My point is people are not going to pay money to go through anything that even resembles the current character approval process. There is a whole lexicon of information that is necessary to know if you do not want to be Johnny Farmboy.

Don't even forget the logistical ramifications of having to go over every approval. There are going to need to be people reading these applications to ensure that they are valid, while the applicants wait to play the game they're playing for. People who are going to have to know everything there is to being a character on Layonara. Heck, I did it for a few weeks before I felt like I was taking another English course that semester. I'm not trying to be negative, in fact I am being reasonable. When you factor in money into any equation, people are going to want a share.

If there are character applications (of any kind) I doubt people will be so willing to part with their money. That is the cost of going so public like this. Layonara, as a small-time PW could maintain the level of control that was necessary to keep things in line.

[ycleption]

I'm sure you're right, that it will be difficult to sustain a large population and retain the same kind of scrutiny we have now for character approvers.
For many of us, however, the character approval process is a big part of why we came to this server. It's the first level of screening, to let players know what they are getting in to. This isn't an elitist "keeping the undesirables out" attitude, it's a way to impress on potential players the level of RP that is expected on Layonara, and giving them the tools to be able to do that. Someone who can't answer where they came from, whether they have living parents or siblings, who thinks that they can claim they have slain scores of dragons, will never be able to RP, and may in fact become more discouraged than they would have been by the approval process in the first place.

Some kinds of compromise are certainly possible, as it's been suggested above, allowing a fast track entry for those who want to skip the approval process, but limiting them to only a few skill lines, and making it very clear to them what will be allowed as far as what they can claim for their character. If even that is considered too restrictive, maybe just offering character approval as an optional service. While not required to get a character in play, those players who wanted to ensure their story is consistent with lore and who want help fleshing out a personality could have a character approved (I know I'd still want the approvers to go over my backstory, even if it wasn't required)... maybe some sort of ooc mark could be shown on approved characters, to give them a sort of cache, and provide an incentive for the approval process.

I think many of us have a legitimate fear that this could become another "mmo where rp occasionally breaks out," and that the lack of the approval process could have a detrimental effect on the community here. I've stated, and I intend to do everything I can to cough up the cash to be able to play the mmo when it comes out, but I will have a harder time justifying paying if the RP starts suffering as the result of unapproved characters over-running the game.

[Skywatcher]

Another option might be to have multiple servers that all emulate the Layonara world environment and have certain servers have the requirement that you have an approved character. Sort of like how Layo is a NWN persistent world you could have subsets of the Layo servers that require more review to get access to. These servers could be the ones that have more affect on making world changes so that would encourage people who really want to make a difference to keep tight RP and go through more wickets while others who just want to hack and slash could still enjoy the environment and the world would still change around them so they would be a part of it but just not being the primary movers of world events. If the infrastructure was there you could even have servers dedicated to training new players on RP and helping them move from the average Joe servers to the Elite or Epic servers if you will. Just some thoughts that occurred to me as I was thinking of how to balance people getting fun for their money but stilll encouraging RP and adherance to the standards that have made Layo great.

EDIT: You could also save the GMs a lot of trouble enforcing rules and such if you had some servers that were not GM'd at all and some that were but to get access to GM time you would have to go through some screening. Say if you wanted a CDQ you would have to request it and meet certain requirements like having an approved character bio and such. Players could use the "non GM'd" servers for testing concepts and raw hack and slash but to get a "real" character in the world you would have to start at level one with an approved bio on one of the supervised servers with higher standards.

[miltonyorkcastle]

Maintaining the various servers is what I'm worried about. The cost, essentially.

But I would really prefer exactly what Skywatcher is suggesting. Say, 70% of server space for the general populace who pays and just wants to explore/hackandslash, with no approval process or GM questing of any kind, and very little GM monitoring. The other 30% is reserved for those few who are willing to possibly pay a monetary fee and still go through all the approval processes and general RP req's we currently maintain. The advantage then would be the GM run quests and the ability to have a tangible affect on the world (not to mention the generally huge, open-ended possibilities of an RP environment).

For some reason I kind of think the MMO team has already mentioned implementing something like this, but to what extent, perhaps, is the question.

[orth]

Originally Posted by miltonyorkcastle

Maintaining the various servers is what I'm worried about. The cost, essentially.

But I would really prefer exactly what Skywatcher is suggesting. Say, 70% of server space for the general populace who pays and just wants to explore/hackandslash, with no approval process or GM questing of any kind, and very little GM monitoring. The other 30% is reserved for those few who are willing to possibly pay a monetary fee and still go through all the approval processes and general RP req's we currently maintain. The advantage then would be the GM run quests and the ability to have a tangible affect on the world (not to mention the generally huge, open-ended possibilities of an RP environment).

For some reason I kind of think the MMO team has already mentioned implementing something like this, but to what extent, perhaps, is the question.

This is the direction we're heading. One world where anything goes, not as monitored, free for all. One world where roleplay is center stage. Your characters must be approved, they must fit the lore of the world. Roleplay will be actively monitored, quests will be ran much more often on center stage then on the free for all.

Anything that happens on Layonara 'Prime' will effect the free for all shard. For example, some players on Prime do a quest that caves in a copper mine. We update and the players on the free for all are no longer able to get to the copper.

This will encourage the drive to get your player accepted to center stage, to be able to make differences and be the one responsible for the world changes. Understanding your actions have an impact on the state of the world.

This is our intentions, but as you immediately stated, costs are our concern and if we can't sustain both servers we'll have to find a happy middle ground.

--

On Eight Bit's point, I really don't understand why a lot of folks think just because you pay for something you should get things exactly as you want and with no work whatsoever. Try to get membership at a country club, its more then just forking over the money.

[Falonthas]

just like in the clubs as well

we have a daily cover anyone can come in pay the cover and enjoy every part of the club thats a pay as you go area

now when they ask about a skybox or balcony area they are told those are for card holders only and their are various packages to be a cardholder

not that the package levels would apply but its the same concept
everyone can run about downstairs and watch the show

but the best seats are above with an unimpeded view of the stage

[miasma_hemlock]

This kind of worries me. I always thought I was a decent enough roleplayer, but the character approval process just kills me. It kills my creativity, because I know if I take any chances besides the most obvious choices for her story it will raise red flags. Even now I have an idea for a halfling cleric I'd love to be playing here but I just can't bring myself to spend an afternoon writing her back story, then hoping for approval. So I just lurk in the forums instead. I can't imagine I'm the only person who would be turned off by not only having to go through and approval process, but paying for the privelege.

The thing is of course most people playing here now would like character approvals, but really, isn't that a chicken and egg thing in some ways? As in no one who wouldn't go for an approval process like this would be here, because they've already passed on Layonara. I know I've tried to get a few real life friends to play and they've all said forget it and "why should I go through that", and these are other improv actress/renaissance faire freaks like me who may have been a lot of fun here. I resisted too, it's only because an old boyfriend was a player here who insisted that I give it a try that I got hooked (and to be honest he wrote my original character application..!)

I would imagine there's lots of others who don't come from a tabletop D&D environment like so many people here seem to who are turned off by the paperwork. And being exclusionary and creating a private club environment works for a free server with limited capacity like this, but I don't know how far it can really scale up. As excited as I am to play the next version of Layonara I don't even know if I would want to pay if the approval and CDQ processes are like they are now.

I don't know, I really think peer pressure might be enough, as well as guilds and religions and any other in game organizations having rules and requirements for their members, and other in-game things that serve to flesh out the world, bring people together in groups and set high standards. Anyway it's not like all of World of Warcraft is going to immediately rush over who you open your doors... Or will they?

[Pen N Popper]

I personally find the approval process a bit of an annoyance. People that have been here for a while know how it works: Submit your PC concept but stick to the middle-of-the-road. Why rock the boat right out of the docks, eh?

Once ingame, no one gives a rat's behind what you submitted for your PC. Do you play well with others? Yes, great! Do you make life entertaining for others? Yes, great! Does your PC have some weird stigmata on his left toenail that might be dragon induced? Sure, sure, whatever!

All that said, I know I would have brought some non-LORE-spur-of-the-moment obscenities into the world. Once your ingame, though, things are what they are. Whether I had the common sense to avoid mentioning these quirks in my bio or not, creative people play the way they play.

I, for one, am curious to see what transpires.

[Dorganath]

The current approval process is in place for a reason. That reason is not to stifle creativity, but simply to make sure the character fits into the world. Beyond that, there is a very large amount of latitude. Your character bio is not the absolute "gospel" by which all future character actions must be made, but rather the foundation for who your character is at the time he/she is created. Naturally, like real-life, one's character can grow and expand beyond their more humble beginnings. We expect and encourage this.

We do, however, seek to avoid people who claim to be fallen celestials, once the Right Hand of ((insert deity here)), or any number of other fantastic, interesting and completely unsupported character concepts. We also want to avoid Neutral Evil Cleric/Assassins of Toran who adopts and raises stray puppies to aid the blind (extreme example, but you get my point). Part, in my opinion, of what has always been nice about Layonara is that most people start out with humble beginnings, and then discover and grow into something much greater.

In any case, what about the MMO?

Clearly, the MMO is a different animal. Clearly, if we wish to appeal to a much larger market, then having a stringent CA process for all characters will make absolutely no economic sense whatsoever. Really, having any sort of CA process for the mass-market doesn't make much sense at all. That said, we will still have a focus on RP. The general plans at this time were outlined above by orth, and if you read them, you might get a sense of where we're going. We recognize that a lot of the people who want to play here may not wish to RP, and those who do may not wish to really participate in the plot of the world. That's fine, and the world will change around both, just like the real world changes around you and me, even though our individual influence is arguably negligible outside of our own personal circles of friends and family.

So rather than debate what is or is not good about our current process, let's keep an open mind about what the team is cooking up for the future.

[Eight-Bit]

Originally Posted by orth

On Eight Bit's point, I really don't understand why a lot of folks think just because you pay for something you should get things exactly as you want and with no work whatsoever. Try to get membership at a country club, its more then just forking over the money.

Well, let me just say that I work quite hard for the money I have, and I like to use it to get things I want. Character approvals take a lot of experience to review properly. Now imagine what I said before about money: people are going to have to read approvals. People are going to want money for their time. Most players(I'd say about 70% ), on the other hand, are not going to be interested in the process of defining the character especially when it comes at a monetary expense. Look at most MMOs: a character is a sum of their skills, not their experiences or personality. In almost every MMO, you define your character's appearance, race, skills, and some other minor junk before you get in game. It's a fifteen minute process, tops. MMOs are all about time, and people want to start killing thousands upon thousands of rats as fast as possible.

With all that said, I wasn't aware of the "anything goes" server and the roleplaying server concept. It sounds like a great idea!

[bobby1361]

the rp server and anything goes server solves my problem
I think we shoudl keep CA for the rp server.

[stragen]

Suggestion:
Light character creation and approval. The user simply clicks a few drop down options (or other spiffy user interface) and a character description and background is created.

Select race (Human, Elven, Dwarf ... )
Select location of birth, Country/Town (a map would be good here!)
Select physical attributes, Hair Colour, Eye Colour, Height Weight
Select template (automatic skill suggestions, eg Mage, Priest, Warrior)
Select backgrounds (farmer, baker, carter, merchant )
Select personality (A few simple text choices, perhaps based on simple modern personality profiles)

From all this three lots of text are auto generated, Appearance, Background, Personality. Along with the appropriate declarations.

Expert users and hard core writers can edit this to their hearts content.




I really like the two shards proposed. One for characters that fit into world lore. The other where characters can be... anything!

What could be great is 'roleplay days' where the roleplayers move into the other server to show them what can be done to improve immersion.



-Stragen

[Script Wrecked]

Originally Posted by stragen

Suggestion:
Light character creation and approval. The user simply clicks a few drop down options (or other spiffy user interface) and a character description and background is created.

Select race (Human, Elven, Dwarf ... )
Select location of birth, Country/Town (a map would be good here!)
Select physical attributes, Hair Colour, Eye Colour, Height Weight
Select template (automatic skill suggestions, eg Mage, Priest, Warrior)
Select backgrounds (farmer, baker, carter, merchant )
Select personality (A few simple text choices, perhaps based on simple modern personality profiles)

From all this three lots of text are auto generated, Appearance, Background, Personality. Along with the appropriate declarations.

Expert users and hard core writers can edit this to their hearts content.

Further, given that most races come from particular places, how about incorporating that into the character creation process:

Race Chosen: Dwarf

Major Dwarven Centers:

• Bloody Gate
  Subject to recent conflicts, Bloody Gate...
• Ulgrid Kingdom
  Nestled high in the Brech mountains, the Kingdom of Ulgrid...
• Lyn
  Seeming unreachable behind the conflict lands of the Hammerbound mountains, Lyn...

with some blurb about each place, with any recent events.

Then (if applicable) something that refines their choice based on path chosen/profession/(class):

Path Chosen: Dwarven Priest

Possible Locations:

• Ulgrid Kingdom
  The Ulgrid Kingdom is home to the temple of Vorax...
• Lyn
  The town of Lyn is home to the temple of Dorand...

Something to narrow down the multitude of potential choices for a "typical" character.

That way, when you first logon, and another character asks you the perennial question, "Where do you come from", you can answer, rather than sending back a tell saying, "Sorry, I only just got here"; there's nothing like knowing where you come from to make you feel a part of something.

Regards,

Script Wrecked.

[stragen]

That way, when you first logon, and another character asks you the perennial question, "Where do you come from", you can answer, rather than sending back a tell saying, "Sorry, I only just got here"; there's nothing like knowing where you come from to make you feel a part of something.

Beautiful. Exactly what I was thinking.

[Gulnyr]

Originally Posted by Script Wrecked

• Ulgrid Kingdom
  The Ulgrid Kingdom is home to the temple of Vorax...
• Lyn
  The town of Lyn is home to the temple of Dorand...

This isn't really on topic, and it isn't a criticism of the example supplied, which I understand is offered to demonstrate the point, but I am hoping the various churches will be more appropriately represented with temples and shrines than they are now. It has been said that there are way more temples than the ones we see in-game, but the limitations of NWN prevent everything that should be there from being there.

So, to tie that into the topic (or at least to the part in the quote), even though there may be several temples of Vorax, perhaps the primary clerical training center is the temple in the Ulgrid Fortress - or maybe some completely different one. Or maybe there is one on each continent. Or, y'know, ten per continent. Continents are big. *shrug*

[Leanthar]

It is not only the limitations of NwN, it is the limitations of hardware/bandwidth/resources and online game play in general. It is not a good idea to put something in-game that is visited rarely (and only by a few) that takes up space/resources/manpower (of some kind) when you could use that same space/resource(s)/manpower for something that is utilized by a far greater % of the population playing the game. And we will not even get in to the time it would take to create the temples...and we all know if everything 'looks the same' (ie the same art is used) people will grow bored of that as well.

I agree with you though, and I wish we could have a better "showing" of the temples but in online game play that is just not possible...and most certainly not even close to possible with our limited resources and manpower.

[Eight-Bit]

Originally Posted by Leanthar

It is not only the limitations of NwN, it is the limitations of hardware/bandwidth/resources and online game play in general. It is not a good idea to put something in-game that is visited rarely (and only by a few) that takes up space/resources/manpower (of some kind) when you could use that same space/resource(s)/manpower for something that is utilized by a far greater % of the population playing the game. And we will not even get in to the time it would take to create the temples...and we all know if everything 'looks the same' (ie the same art is used) people will grow bored of that as well.

I agree with you though, and I wish we could have a better "showing" of the temples but in online game play that is just not possible...and most certainly not even close to possible with our limited resources and manpower.

One day, man. One day. You can always release updates, patches, or expansions if this takes off. Hey... extra cash with an expansion.

[Script Wrecked]

Following this tangent off-topic...

Given the sparse use of temples...

You could have a temple (to a specific deity) in multiple towns/cities, but said temples (to the specific deity) would all use the same interior area. Entering the temple is easy, exiting would require a bit of code to pop people back out where they entered.

Just an idea...(1)

Regards,

Script Wrecked.

1: Yes, there are a whole bunch of issues this would raise, but this post is just floating an idea

[miltonyorkcastle]

Actually, it was my understanding that there are very few temples in the world, but many shrines. For example, a major city only has one, maybe two temples, which represent the preferred deity of the region. However, that same city has a shrine to nearly every deity, perhaps even a few of the evil gods, only that their shrines are hidden.

Villages and hamlets don't typically have the resources to maintain a temple, which restricts temples to larger cities. All villages have shrines, though, and the smaller the village, the fewer the shrines you are likely to see. Also this is the reason for pilgrimages.

Of course, Mr. Loremaster, if I'm wrong about this, please let me know.

Temple = roofed structure for gathering/training/archives/etc.
Shrine = statue/symbol/place to pause and say a prayer/roofed structures not likely

[Leanthar]

Yeah, you are pretty much on target there Milt. Temples are very expensive and shrines are cheap and easy to erect. So for the most part you are correct.

[Gulnyr]

Originally Posted by miltonyorkcastle

Actually, it was my understanding that there are very few temples in the world, but many shrines. For example, a major city only has one, maybe two temples, which represent the preferred deity of the region. However, that same city has a shrine to nearly every deity, perhaps even a few of the evil gods, only that their shrines are hidden.

Villages and hamlets don't typically have the resources to maintain a temple, which restricts temples to larger cities. All villages have shrines, though, and the smaller the village, the fewer the shrines you are likely to see. Also this is the reason for pilgrimages.

Of course, Mr. Loremaster, if I'm wrong about this, please let me know.

Temple = roofed structure for gathering/training/archives/etc.
Shrine = statue/symbol/place to pause and say a prayer/roofed structures not likely

While I don't disagree with what you are saying and don't question what Leanthar intends for his world or says is possible given the resources available, LORE seems to disagree somewhat. These are the first few I pulled up on the respective deity pages, and I just stopped after the fifth one:

Temples to Aeridin can be found everywhere, from the largest city to the smallest village. Most also act as a house of healing for the wounded and the sick and as a place where the poor or unfortunate can find help to get their lives back on track. Spread far across all continents of Layonara, the Church of Aeridin stands in good regard with most peoples.

This clearly says they are all over the place, and seems to indicate staffed temples rather than shrines.

The temples of Toran are known the lands over as houses of safety and refuge. None in need shall ever be turned away. They are strongholds in their communities, ready to harbor any and all comers from encroaching evils. All temples have at least one Paladin assigned to them. Some temples are also homes to Justicers. However, since there are so few Justicers, they are forced to travel throughout regions to hear cases and to make decisions. This means that every temple has a room prepared should a Justicer arrive unannounced, so that they may always have a place to lay for rest and to contemplate trying issues in solitude.

Shrines are not strongholds and can't really harbor anyone, nor do they offer housing or solitude for traveling faithful. Yes, I know the Justicers part is out of date, but the temples wouldn't morph into new forms just because some people left (or were thrown out of) the church. Also, they would need to be all over the place for it to be worthwhile to mention the unnamed number have housing and solitude available for the traveling Justicers. If there were only one or two temples... duh, y'know? There wouldn't really have been a lot of housing for the Justicers in the various regions, then, either.

Temples of Rofirein are a mixture of grand and humble affairs, often doubling as local courts and houses of justice. All temples maintain a fair library that holds documents of law and other books of factual interest. The largest place of worship is the Cathedral of Rofirein in Pranzis, a magnificent edifice replete with the splendor and majesty of the Law. Each local temple is home to a High Priest, a number of local clerics, and serves as a temporary home for questing clerics.

Ignore the Pranzis part, or pretend it says Western Gate. Besides that, the beginning could mean anything as far as numbers go, since even the two in-game count as 'temples' (plural) and each can often be a courthouse for its local area. Again, though, shrines aren't really set up for housing, and shrines don't have high priests and a big staff. Also, a single temple on Mistone and a cathedral on Dregar (now on Corsain) isn't really much of a housing prospect for questing clerics.

Az’atta’s clergy build and maintain temples to her anywhere there are likely to be those in need of their help and protection.

This one's vague, but it does leave the potential for a ton of staffed temples scattered all over.

The clergy of Xeen often run festhalls in bigger cities that cater to all senses and include nearly every pleasure imaginable. Xeenites are also known for their skill in making great wine, and for this reason they can be often seen working for royalty and nobility.

The festhalls are often considered temples of Xeen, and often serve as such since they are favorite gathering places of her worshippers. Smaller temples to Xeen exist also, but they aren't very numerous due to the clergy preferring to spend their time in the festhalls rather than some boring temple. Both the temples and the festhalls are beautifully decorated and nearly all of them contain a fountain of wine where people can gather around and enjoy the taste of the goddess' gift.

I guess 'bigger cities' is open to interpretation, but there would still be a few big temples along with a couple of little ones wherever. Shrines, though tended, aren't necessarily manned.

Maybe all of this is out of date and all of it will be rewritten to more correctly describe the reality of the world, but these are some of the examples that have led me to believe there are temples, not just shrines, all over the place.

[Dorganath]

To begin...

This one's vague, but it does leave the potential for a ton of staffed temples scattered all over.

There's more to this than what you posted. Az'atta actually has few enduring and permanent temples. Her clergy is highly migratory, and will build temples where and when there is a need, but also move on and abandon them/tear them down when that need is passed. I actually ran a CDQ (which evolved into another CDQ) for someone seeking to find lost temples to Az'atta. They found one...and a defaced stone that was probably a shrine...and something completely undetermined that might have been a temple. Point is, the full context disagrees with your one sentence.

Taking the Toran example, there's no way that Toran would have a full-blown temple in every town, whether it's something on the order of Fort Llast or the Citadel in Huangjin. If a small town did have a temple, it might just be as simple as another house with an ankh on the door. Some places may have a simple shrine and maybe a priest in town...some places may not have a presence of Toran at all.

Speaking more generally, we're also bumping into a version problem, where what you are quoting is based on old lore and which has not really evolved to its proper accuracy. It's entirely possible, even likely, that the words "temple" and "shrine" were used somewhat interchangeably in the old lore. I think it's just an unfortunate ambiguity.

And also take into consideration that some deities may simply not be popular or desired in some locations. A large, generally lawful city like Port Hempsted probably won't have a "temple" to Corath, but it would be almost certain that someone had a "shrine" or altar somewhere, known only to the faithful. One might have to look really hard to find any traces of Aeridin in Arnax. Finding a temple or even a shrine to Lucinda in Brenuth would also be unlikely.

[Gulnyr]

Certainly. I can understand all that and don't have any argument with it, really. I'm not trying to suggest there should be temples growing like dandelions all over the place, but that the previous, potentially out-of-date lore suggests that they are common. Even with the possible use of 'temple' and 'shrine' to mean the same thing in many of the write-ups, that impression still comes through.

The Toran example, for instance, talks about Justicers having some solitary temple space within the region where they are operating. It doesn't suggest there are temples in almost every village like Aeridin's does. What it does suggest is that some sort of official church housing for visiting Justicers exists near all the major population centers, at least in the kingdoms where their law was welcome. If there were only one or two temples, those would not be places a Justicer would need spare space should he drop by unannounced, but would more likely be his headquarters where he would have permanent quarters with his name on the door.

Again, I'm not arguing against what anyone has said, whether it counters the LORE pages or not. I was just giving some examples that showed why it could easily be believed that there were a lot more roofed, staffed temples than in-game visibility lets on. If nothing else, at least this showed that the LORE pages are wrong and corrected my misconceptions from what I read there. Cheers to the future pages that match the reality of the world.

[HooD!uM]

im a little bit worried about this ca process and the other shard idea..

1. Alright..i make a character on the rp server...if its anything like the NWN approvals..this could take upto 2 weeks to be approved, ( 3 weeks in some cases). Are you expecting people to pay before the character is approved, or once they log in?

2. what happens if say 90% of the population ends up on the Free shard? Will it still be cost effective to keep both servers running?


3. Why would someone read a 200+ book on lore about this world just to pay to play?

I dont mind paying to play a game, but i dont expect to be told how i can play a game i pay a monthy fee for (unless i was hacking or some other serious infringment like griefing or being racist and such). Every mmo out there is basically all geared towards PvP, because basically, that what most people want, Even in supposed RP servers...


sorry if it all sound negative, but these points are more or less true for every mmo out there....just my thoughts on this matter..

[Gulnyr]

Totally unofficial comments/answers follow:

1. If the plan is to more closely monitor the RP server to make sure things fit appropriately (no sons of gods or "pwnd!"), then perhaps anyone can give it a go. If they aren't fitting the RP requirement (which I don't expect to be outrageously high), then maybe the character is transferred to the open server. That doesn't have to be instantaneous. There could be an RP training area, or there could be some discussion with GMs, or a system of warnings. And/or. To say it another way, character approval could be an ongoing process of sorts rather than a system of submitting before playing. Or maybe there are better ideas already in the works.

2. Is there a free one? It was my understanding it's pay either way. Wherever they are, that's money supporting the world.

3. I doubt many would, whether they pay or not. People who want to do a better job of fitting into the RP would look a little harder, though.

"Every MMO out there" can stuff it. If the Layo team is just going to make a clone, they may as well throw in the towel. Targeting the clearly small, niche market of players who don't mind having rules placed (aka being told how to play) so that a good RP environment can be maintained seems a better route to success than trying to go toe-to-toe with WoW or whatever on their terms. I've read comments about the new Star Trek MMO saying how much people really want to get into it and RP, but morons always ruin it with the 133t5p34k and the USS Boobs Ahoy. Layonara is unlikely to make any headway in the market if it only offers the same old thing. There are a gazillion choices for the "no rules" crowd, whose developers are really more interested in the money than the world, and nothing like Layonara where the value of role playing is appreciated.

[Hellblazer]

Originally Posted by Eight-Bit

Well, let me just say that I work quite hard for the money I have, and I like to use it to get things I want. Character approvals take a lot of experience to review properly. Now imagine what I said before about money: people are going to have to read approvals. People are going to want money for their time. Most players(I'd say about 70% ), on the other hand, are not going to be interested in the process of defining the character especially when it comes at a monetary expense. Look at most MMOs: a character is a sum of their skills, not their experiences or personality. In almost every MMO, you define your character's appearance, race, skills, and some other minor junk before you get in game. It's a fifteen minute process, tops. MMOs are all about time, and people want to start killing thousands upon thousands of rats as fast as possible.

With all that said, I wasn't aware of the "anything goes" server and the roleplaying server concept. It sounds like a great idea!

You know I have only notice how old this thread was :P, but this is a question that endure in my mind today still.

There is a mmo game I used to play that had two sets of server, RP and arena. Not exactly what you guys are aiming for if I read right, but yet, even in the "RP" server, it degenerated into some kind of kids wow.

So I'd like to know if there has been more thoughts process and what it is, on how you are going to insure a standard for RPing on the central stage world?

An about the money issue. AO had a free version of the game where a lot of people used (even today) but inside the game and strategically placed so it didn't feel weird, they place paid publicities for products and companies. Maybe this is something you guys could take a look at to have at least the RP server, free to play, and keep the other sever, pay to play?

[Pandapuff7]

Someone might of alredy pointed this out
but im pretty sure with everyone that plays this game is mainly into it for the Rich RP expirance that not alot of other servers have.

I realy hope you do set up an RP server, making it free would also be great

I woudlent want Layonara to be another WOW