Enemy Behavior and AI

[Eight-Bit]

Let's face it, I'm not sure if the AI Layonara used as customized in many ways, but to be honest (and constructive, I'm not dumping on you guys!), it was pretty easy to understand how the enemy thought. From a realistic viewpoint it is common sense that the more complicated an AI, the more processing power it takes. It is a fine balance.

Monster spawns move about pretty much randomly after spawning, or in some cases stood perfectly still after they spawned (lag, maybe?). I'm not sure if there was more to it than "If you can see a PC - Attack". Bottom line, it is predictable and once that happens part of the game gets thin.

What I really don't want to see are simple and easy to use standards that players develop to deal with spawns. Luring, despite being considered a roleplaying faux pas, was pretty common practice when I was more active in the game. Something so simple as a call to all enemies within earshot to follow the one who has spotted a PC may suffice.

The questions we need to ask ourselves is how important is the enemy AI to the overall experience. It is not the most important aspect. In fact Layonara could keep the same system if such a thing was possible. Yet in many games a poor AI can break the gameplay.

I want to open the discussion on the AI in general. What do you want to see? What don't you want to see? How complicated does it need to be to keep you engaged? What kind of behaviors do you think will improve the quality of the game?

[Frances]

What I would love to see is enemies that realized they're overmatched, and either leave you alone, run away, or run off after they've attacked you and realized they're getting beat badly.

On the same note, it would be cool to see either a group that attacked and decided to disengage as a group, or to see the group break and run away individually. Even better, if you chase that group that ran away, you suddenly find yourself in an ambush by their friends (which was their plan in the first place).

[Dorax Windsmith]

Very cool ideas, I've always thought it would be cool to try to negotiate prior to combat. Right now that only seems possible when a GM is controlling the creatures, but if there was something more than just "when it see's you it attacks" that would be a huge improvement in the immersion experience.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Especially with the animals. Like sure, a lion MIGHT just ran at you an attack you, but realistically, they wont attack a person unless they a A)Hungry or B) threatened. I mean the badgers are insane, and so are the rats. Rats Run away, even insanely large ones....

And then the deer... Who has EVER seen a Deer, while out hunting turn and face you and say "Alright, Boy! Yer MINE!!!"

[Honora]

I remember playing Dark Ages of Camelot and the spawns would run away...and bring a baker's dozen of their buddies back. Or they'd keep running until they triggered a bunch of spawn - you had to be careful and have good crowd control or you were toast.

Did make for some memorable battles though!

Got to agree about the deer. I think Layo has the most agressive herbivores in the gaming world! :P

[miltonyorkcastle]

You beat me to it, Frances. That's what I was going to suggest, heh.

[Leanthar]

Yeah Honora. I always liked that AI. It was really cool and players had to think!

[lonnarin]

Agreed on all parts there. Another aspect of luring that can be developed on is how much it's reliant on line-of-sight and listening checks of the monsters. It should be logically easier to sneak around a monster's back than its front, but NWN hardcoding makes the difference hard to tell, and adept rogues walk right up to them unseen without using cover. What might also help realism in luring would be a "proximity alarm" for monsters who alert their allies nearby whenever they hear something or get hit. Gothic 3 handled this pretty well; when you sneak up on a band of orcs, they chase you as a group and most of them break pursuit as a group, returning to their old posts. So when you try to draw off one orc, 3 or 5 show up... and you run like the dickens. After half a mile or so, most of them break off their pursuit, though the ones you stuck a few arrows in followed a little further and you could murder them off in the woods. You have to use cover and line of sight to your advantge to pick things off, kill or steal when nobody's looking, etc. To some extent this improves the thieving and mugging system, where you can lure people into allyways and beat them down while the guard sits out on the street twiddling his thumbs.

But the main thing I'd like to see is realistic AI for all things, and I agree that the carnivorous deer and anger management badger need a revamp. Hopefully we'll not only get a new version of the mass-animal empathy skill, but also smarter animals that react a little better. To those with no animal empathy, a deer would sprint away on sight or the first twig snap, though a ranger or druid could plausibly walk up and pet it, handfeeding it berries and such. Maybe if there was a walk-only toggle to animal empathy? It makes sense that you have to move calmly in order to calm animals, even druids wouldn't sprint up to a bear. We also need to divide the animals into factions a bit better, so that you don't see wargs standing next to deer or cute fluffy bunnies without eating them. We shouldn't see however, gate guards breaking their posts to chase bunnies on a murderous rampage, though one would surely get involved if a warg or bear was near the gates.

Another idea I had for animal empathy was for some form of "Nature's Ally XP" wherein druids could go out to the woods and instead of hunting, they tamed and fed animals and planted trees and such. Then they could serve a more peaceful and nurturing role to some extent, and one would have to use the right food for a success, lettuce and carrots for bunnies, muttons and corpses for the predators, etc.

In all, the animals should mostly be at odds with enemy factions, unless the particular spawn has good reason to have mixed numbers. Dwarven mercenaries shouldn't have an immediate truce with every skunk they see, and clever druids could steer a stampede of rhinos through an enemy camp. I'm a big fan of enemy factions that fight eachother.

[scifibarbie]

And dont forget the chickens!

Our chickens are super vicious! I mean...one chicken can kill 2 deer if its really really riled!

[Falonthas]

not if you pet them from the head and not up their back

they are like cats, rub em the wrong way and ya get a beak in your hand

[Honora]

..."Anger management badger"...

heeee sorry that made me giggle. I picture a badger with Jack Nicholson's face, sunglasses and all...

[Pen N Popper]

An interesting NWN2 example of enemy AI: Khalidine

[Desicardo]

The same might apply to Treants as well. While a forest guardian may attack a clanking fighter on sight, I don't think the reaction would be the same to a druid or ranger.. perhaps tree-empathy... or something. The idea of an animal running away would be nice to see too. Perhaps for all creatures having a stat defining agressive nature would be good. So cute furry bunnies would be a 1 and dire tigers would be a 100 and use some type of roll to determine reaction using the stat as a modifier. Reaction being either flee, defensive posture (defend and fight back if attacked), or attack agressively.

[Eight-Bit]

I agree on all points thus far!

[Pen N Popper]

As mentioned above in regards to luring, better "Player AI" would be welcome too.

If PCs get better at fighting by killing NPCs, does it not make sense that the victorious NPCs get better too? (IC consequences for IC actions: You lose and your enemy gets stronger.)

If PCs overwhelm a group of NPCs to a degree where some escape, do the PCs gain skill just as if they had killed the NPCs? (Must all games be about slaughtering to the end and not the myriad other ways of "winning?")

If the NPCs can escape, would it make sense for the PCs to also be able to escape? (IC consequences for IC actions: Fleeing the battle leaves you alive and your enemy stronger.)

[Eight-Bit]

I like your idea, PnP! It would benefit sneaky characters quite a bit. A bonus for using your "sneaky" skill to elude, evade, or escape a threatening conflict.