The Grinding Goblin.

miltonyorkcastle · 06-26-08, 02:22 PM

Let's see, where to start:

I suppose, first, I'll define grinding as doing something (such as using a skill, or killing a particular monster) repeatedly to gain experience.

Second, I recognize that grinding will be a part of any game anywhere. Really, we grind in RL when we want to learn a skill. You want to be good at whistling, you whistle and whistle and whistle until you're decent at it.

So what I want to know, then, is what will the grinding balance be in the new Layo game? It seems to me that skill-based systems lend themselves to grinding. Admittedly, my primary experience with a skills based game is through Elder Scrolls, particularly Oblivion. And that's not a multiplayer game. But it's all skills. And if you want to become decent with a skill, you just do it over and over again. Which makes sense. Then again, it only takes several hours of me holding down the "cast" button to increase my Alteration magic skill to master level. In a multiplayer environment, that's no time at all. We'll all be masters at darn near every skill (that we don't have to collect stuff to use in practice, like alchemy) within the first week.

Heh, even gaining skill with a blade in Oblivion meant finding a badguy, beating on him a bit, then healing him so I can beat on him some more. I can go on doing that same thing for hours. Boring as all get out, but then it's over, and I'm a master with the blade.

You know, what, though? It's not exactly "bad RP" to practice a skill until you master it. What we don't want is that skill practice to completely take away from a character's non-mechanical development.

So how do the developers plan to make the system so we don't all become masters in a week, but also so we don't all have to grind for a month to gain one increase in a skill? Especially since there are no character levels any more (or at least that's the impression I got), only skill levels.

What I would suggest is that skills cap below "master level" for what can be learned by sheer repeated practice. After hitting the cap, it's simply a matter of time/(some other measurement of a general increase in experience). So everyone can, if they choose, become relatively good with any skill by sitting down and just practicing until their brain/hand/feet hurts. This would indicate that you're "trained" in the skill. Going beyond just being "trained" would have little or nothing to do with straight practice and more to do with just living and applying those life skills to your craft.

The answer to the above question really relies on whether there will be any mechanical character advancement outside of skill advancement (see my HP thread). It also pertains to the questions about communal learning/advancement.

Dorganath · 06-26-08, 03:24 PM

Without going into too much detail, skill points can only be gained if the use of a skill involves some amount of "challenge" to the character. Also, there is a progression to earning skill points as you increase in skill level.

So killing hordes of low-level goblins will be an exercise of diminishing returns.

To go further, however, will get into areas that we can't yet discuss due to a variety of factors, including intensive play-testing and balancing.

AeonBlues · 06-28-08, 01:17 PM

So skill progression is in fact gained by use of a specific skill and not some other system where skill points might be given and allocated by the player?

I am a huge fan of Oblivion, so I would be very excited by this kind of system. One of the things I noticed is the the makers of this game gave up on pure use of skills for balancing and allow characters to purchase skill points from NPC trainers. Particularly, skills that characters would use a lot, like restoration and destruction magics, were much harder to advance in then say illusion or conjuration.

By the way, I will pay $60 if you port the game over to the Xbox360 platform

AeonBlues

zenvidar · 06-29-08, 09:47 AM

Well, they would only be able to port the game over if they were able to get it into the xbox online store.

But even then, that would require a lot more cash in working with Microsoft.

Being able to publish the game for not too much more than it already costs to keep layonara websites, servers, etc. running would be ideal for them.

I would guess that a port would be long in the future, if so.