Author Topic: World Leaders (Read 337 times)

Chongo · « **on:** May 28, 2006, 09:22:12 pm »

Didn't want to litter the announcement on this with discussion, so here's the general purpose of this topic:

- What are the current thoughts, specifically from the core GM Team, on character types that bear no role as being a world leader?

Important things to remember in this discussion folks should you want to throw your 2 cents:

- This is meant as a friendly discussion only to clear up the overall concept of the world leader as it may prevent any misinterpretations of this new aspect of Layo. There is nothing controversial about it.

Let me throw out an example of Eight Bit's character Key. The salty, angry loner. Now I know that in the past I've played characters like this, perhaps not as well, that really don't fit the profile of any sort of worldly recognition. Or the silent ranger that wanders the land, bringing atmosphere to the environment for other players (what I deem successful gameplay), but never act in facilitation of anything. The character you love to see around, though you know will never be in the foreground.

Now I've read through the explanation of what constitutes the world leader, and perhaps a few quotes on it could be pulled to answer this, but I think I'd like to hear what level of facilitation is expected. From how I understood it, certain very successful atmospheric character types may be better off grinding through as opposed to taking status, in order to maintain their intended roleplay and general level of public awareness.

Fun fun.

Acacea · « **Reply #1 on:** May 28, 2006, 10:30:24 pm »

I do think that perhaps all characters are not meant for the role; however I don't see anything that says that the ones that are, must actually be in-game World Leaders...rather it seems to more refer to a role within the community as a whole, with benefits to the character that achieved it. I don't see why the character in question must be an open, heroic ruler of a kingdom or something. One might as easily represent a shady part of the underworld. I'd think it is just like when everyone was doing ECDQs--for the most part, they're the epic, legendary heroes whose faces go well on the front of a cereal box. But occasionally you have the darker (or simply less open and loud) foundation shakers whose accomplishments are whispered in fear. And whose faces and names are only rumored, or maybe are on the front of a "Wanted" poster. Or something. Since everyone who has passed their ECDQ was grandfathered into the 'World Leader' bit, this makes Rufus Coldfinger a World Leader... and I don't think there's really a better example of what I'm talking about than that one. A longtime player that is held to a higher standard of roleplay (already shown with a rare alignment that he is expected to be capable of handling said maturity and higher standard) and community involvement, whose epic character happens to be a creepy evil guy who sees the benefits of the work put into both aspects. The kind of large roles that these character types can achieve are just as much a privilege as the more public versions. So...I personally see no real reason why someone like EightBit couldn't achieve the role (should he actually devote the time to it!): his characters are all fantastically roleplayed and each have clear strengths and limits, fitting into certain niches of the world; he attends GM quests and runs around with players outside of them ; he sets a pretty nice standard in general for that sort of thing. I can think of a lot of giant things that a tiefling with an eye for opportunity and few ethical concerns can get her hands in, without having everyone trying to shake her hand every five minutes...most of them involving something illegal. He's got a crazy imagination, so I'm sure he can think of more. The player would have a leadership role with the status achieved, while the character can influence the world without exactly being Queen Allurial. Should the character were abandoned for a long stretch of time, it would lose its earned benefits, just as if it had disappeared for several years in game time. In my opinion, this status is limited by the effort and desire of the player, and not automatically by their "character type." There are plenty of roles to fill.

Quote

A World Leader is not just an in-game title, indeed the title in game will most assuredly be something else, and it is a title that references the player as a whole but gives benefits to the character that earned that title.

(I do not at all speak for the team and am just as interested in seeing if this is confirmed or corrected.) (I also just woke up from a nap and am feeling a little rambly...not sure how coherent all this is.)

Pankoki · « **Reply #2 on:** May 28, 2006, 11:00:21 pm »

Coherence and rambling aside. You're absolutely right. The World Leader is not an in-game title. It's simply a role in the community of that player and the benefits of influence, or power, or dominion, or simple leverage that their character may have. (Shortened 2 sentence version that maybe doesn't graciously explain it all, but says basically the same thing :p )

_M_O_B_ · « **Reply #3 on:** May 28, 2006, 11:10:04 pm »

*loves Pankoki for his small explanation*

Leanthar · « **Reply #4 on:** May 29, 2006, 04:53:14 am »

You are exactly correct Acacea.

Blackguy · « **Reply #5 on:** May 29, 2006, 06:45:31 am »

I know that it's hard to see the ECDQ's go away, but I just have to say im quite happy for this change. I could never seen my character go Epic as she is now. Shes quite happy being a wizard that develops her powers. She's not fit to be a worldleader ( as explained above ), and as such this is a welcome for her to expand her abillities to lend aid to those that might need it. She does a lots of quests,and lots of RP, and shes happy, and im happy with the way that is.

Yllyrryon · « **Reply #6 on:** May 29, 2006, 01:14:24 pm »

Thanks, Acacea, for the clarification. And many thanks to L and the Team for the new "World Leader" system.

For me, this is liberating in that now, I can really get to the heart of my characters and play their lives out from that perspective. With the previous Epic System, there was no advancement beyond level 20, which alienated the gamer in me. It's all about role play. And I adhere to this principle - but after having experienced Layo for nearly a year, I acknowledge that the gaming element (getting more powerful as you level; getting wealthy in gold and "stuff", etc.) is fun and I love that element, too.

So shoot me if I've commited a cardinal sin by confessing this.

I reached level 20 as Ael with two and half months to spare, ahead of the 12 month period. Emotionally, I felt like a spot light had been put on me to some how prove my character before I could continue a very fun aspect of the game, namely, continuing to level him. With the new rules, characters can continue to level without having to go through the epic approval process. So it totally made my day when I read L's enumeration of the World Leader system. Both my characters have their plans, aspirations, etc...and by following them if either one of them ends up as a World Leader, then it's icing on the cake. No longer do I feel that my creativity with respect to Ael is being hampered by a superficial "trial by fire" process.

Thanks.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #7 on:** May 29, 2006, 02:17:10 pm »

Well, here's a question. It's implied, but never implicitly stated, that to become a World Leader, one must have a character of 20th level or higher. Is this true? Even Queen Allurial's only a level 10 Aristocrat, tops.

Ozy_Llewellyn · « **Reply #8 on:** May 29, 2006, 02:31:17 pm »

Quote

Stephen_Zuckerman - 5/29/2006 2:17 PM
Well, here's a question. It's implied, but never implicitly stated, that to become a World Leader, one must have a character of 20th level or higher. Is this true? Even Queen Allurial's only a level 10 Aristocrat, tops.

I would actually say she’s around mid epics, due to the challenge rating I see when examining her with Ozy. Considering the handbook and the nature of Layonara, people start leaving a mark right away. But to become world renowned for whatever reason, doesn’t happen till around the point of level 20.

http://nwn.layonara.com/World%20Leaders

"A player can request to have a WLDQ run in order to become a World Leader at any time after reaching level 20."

There for as Acacia stated, they may not hold any tangible evidence of it, but they are probably significant.

Leanthar · « **Reply #9 on:** May 29, 2006, 02:36:07 pm »

And that is one of the exact reasons we made this move Ylyrryon.

Leanthar · « **Reply #10 on:** May 29, 2006, 02:36:41 pm »

She is far more than just an aristocrat Stephen, far more.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #11 on:** May 29, 2006, 02:40:47 pm »

Wow... A queen that's actually got levels? I'm impressed. I wish that her entry had been completed on LORE...

Anyway, so this replaces the ECDQ system as an optional thing. Personally, from what I know of it so far, it seems to make a lot of sense, and I know a lot of people will be very happy that they don't have to keep from levelling.

It's a shame that by the time I'll have been here a year, we'll be on NWN2. Will the WLDQ system carry through to NWN2?

Leanthar · « **Reply #12 on:** May 29, 2006, 02:44:21 pm »

We developed the system in the hopes that we can use it from this time foward. It should help with the world load on the team and it doesn't harm the players and those that want to be more can be more... So yes, it should be around forever--but times change and if we can't handle certain things we may have to change things again...but since we are not forcing things and players can continue to level I think it will be around forever.

Nibor21 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 29, 2006, 11:42:35 pm »

How does the development of the WL system effect certain character development issues?

I have right from the beginning of my characters development had a wish for her find her fathers great sword (taken from her by the Orcs who made her a slave for 2 years) and return it to her fathers grave. As I plan on continuing to play a straight Barbarian I have no need to request a CDQ to complete this, and was therefore hoping to base my ECDQ (if I ever reached that far) around that part of my characters life.

This ambition has been an important part of Karana's life and her desire to go ahead with it has been either discussed or alluded to in several conversations with other PC's.

Karana is not the sort of person who would ever seek to become a world leader (although chief of the Elksoul tribe is an ambition) has a dislike for many of the rules and conventions of society and actively dislikes the aristocracy in case they feel she is a lesser person than them.

Does this now mean that this character development path is closed to me and I need to find means of exploring this avenue and resolving certain personal issues in Karana's life without a GM led quest?

Thanks,

Nibor

Acacea · « **Reply #14 on:** May 30, 2006, 12:52:55 am »

I think it's important to remember that in reality, while this is certainly a huge change, the actual quests are still epic in scope. It's now a reward for people who seek that level of roleplay, while still allowing people who don't, the ability to progress without it. People who have completed them are privileged in both the community and in-game sense, and get tossed the extra responsibilities and expectations to go with it. It does not restrict what your character may do with them, or put every single person who applies for one as a potential stuffed up aristocrat.

Don't feel creatively limited by the title "World Leader."

I also don't feel the change in this kind of system at all affects your ability to have a cdq ran involving character backstory. It just opens up roads for the people who wouldn't "go epic," while reserving a place for the people who put the time and effort into doing so.

KageKeeper · « **Reply #15 on:** May 30, 2006, 01:18:25 am »

Again, very well stated Acacea.

Eight-Bit · « **Reply #16 on:** May 30, 2006, 02:54:20 am »

Oh man, the things I would do if Key was able to actually get to the mechanical point (ie epic levels) to become a world leader, but truthfully all of my characters really don't get any stronger past level 11 or so as a rule of mine, to prevent myself from becomming a Jerky McBashinstien kinda guy. So I don't know. I have a few months to try. I might as well.

Oh, by the way, I did decide to pick Key of my collection of characters to try and take to epic, after I realised Llu is a dried up and annoying wash-up of a Mage.

Good Wordyness today Acacea, too!

Leanthar · « **Reply #17 on:** May 30, 2006, 05:51:44 am »

"...Does this now mean that this character development path is closed to me and I need to find means of exploring this avenue and resolving certain personal issues in Karana's life without a GM led quest?...."

No. I am not even sure why you think that would be the case. The quest series that it takes to become a WL is just as difficult (and time consuming) as it was for the ECDQ--it is the exact same sort of quest. We just are not forcing a player to take or quit leveling any more.

What Acacea said above is correct.

Yosemite Sam · « **Reply #18 on:** May 30, 2006, 02:37:59 pm »

I, for one, welcome this change. It gives those of us who cannot make all the plot queasts due to RL a chance to continue progess. Its not that we wouldnt like to, for some of us we just cant. Its hard when you have a job, 2 children, and several activities (like church) to find 5 hours that will cover a scheduled plot quests. I can do it occasionally, but not to the degree that it takes to become a world leader. I have not been running Perago a lot because I cant really spend the time to do him justice at this point. He is the toon I take on the plot quests I can make. Micheal is my easier to run so I dont have to pay as much attention character, although he has a pretty good story in hiw own right.

lonnarin · « **Reply #19 on:** May 30, 2006, 09:31:51 pm »

Aye, what I like most about this is that it frees up the GM workload considerably so that they can set their own pace and run quests in their own style instead of having to constantly be doing 1/2 of them CDQs. On a server with thousands of players, and a good number of them wanting a prestige class of some sort in their development, it almost made ye feel bogged down with the constant requests in your queue piling up faster than you can complete them. Meanwhile, folk who'd been here for years had to wait at 20 for months and months, frozen in level. A lot of them went temporarily insane, some bitter and left the community, others just giving up and falling out via attrition. I think I remember when poor Harlas was on hold for something like 6 months because the workload was so heavy.

Both this new system, and making CDQs no longer give out end-quest xp are the two best measures passed so far for GM sanity and stress reduction. It's also considerably more realistic now to level more freely. According to the old epic-cdq system, more than 3/4s the troops of bloodstone's army would theoretically be known by name by most of the world's populace, been active members of the community for a year, maintain forum presence, have attended GM quests actively and submitted their papers 2 months in advance. *snickers*

Great update!