True seeing

[Damien]

I don't know how True seeing works on this server, but one thing that has always bothered me, is the fact that a lvl 40 rouge or assassin or shadodancer or whatever can use a lot of skill points on stealth skills, and even feats, but then a low level guy happens to have a helmet with true seeing and ruins everything. It just doesn't seem fair...

It would be great if True seeing gave you the ability to see through all magical concealment spells, and instead of automatically spot hiding people as it usually does, it would give an X amount to Search and Spot per X levels of the caster.

If this already been discussed/altered, just delete this thread.

[Pankoki]

We really really really really want to do this. But Bioware hardcoded the True seeing ability to always pierce stealth when monsters use it. So we would only be able to change the player side version and not the monster version, which obviously is too unfair.
  Unless you can point to us to a fix of some kind.

[ZeroVega]

Could you take the original True Seeing out for both players and monsters and replace it with a custom made TS that does what Damien said?

[Pankoki]

Thats a question for Orth to answer, but I think that would involve changing all the monsters with TS and although we can change the ones we made for Layo, there are also those in the NWN standard pallete that we can't.
  I'll let orth answer though.

[GhostWhoWalks]

I'll answer...

There are two types of true seeing.

The first is the spell.

And yes, we could change that. And how that worked. And it would impact players and npc spellcasters.

The second is the creature/item ability, which many boss type creatures, dragonkin, etc possess naturally. That is unchangable.


A lot of pvp worlds change the spell, since they have to worry about player vs. player combat. But on Layonara since that's not an option it was never something we considered worth while since there are/were few spell casters that actually use true seeing it is mostly a player vs. player thing.

Can we change the spell? I imagine yes. Is it worth the time/effort to change it?  Personally I'd say no since without pvp combat, it won't really change anything.

[vgn]

While I, like many others, would like to see this changed, as Ghost points out this isn't pvp, so really it only affects the fact that some monsters can see you which can be a bummer sometimes, but not the end of the world. For character interactions, this is a roleplay server, if you know True Seeing shouldn't let you see someone hiding, there is no reason you have to actually acknowledge seeing them.
Just today, Vin followed Plen around for quite some time hiding. Because of where he was going, Plen had True Seeing up. He never once acknowledged Vin was there and following him yet orth had to know Vin was there, and in fact unless orth really does just type random stuff all the time when alone, he not only knew Vin was there, but also was putting on a little show.

[freemen2]

Heh heh, he as been acting like he wanted Oz' job as of late

[orth]

vgn - 5/13/2005  12:45 AM

While I, like many others, would like to see this changed, as Ghost points out this isn't pvp, so really it only affects the fact that some monsters can see you which can be a bummer sometimes, but not the end of the world. For character interactions, this is a roleplay server, if you know True Seeing shouldn't let you see someone hiding, there is no reason you have to actually acknowledge seeing them.
Just today, Vin followed Plen around for quite some time hiding. Because of where he was going, Plen had True Seeing up. He never once acknowledged Vin was there and following him yet orth had to know Vin was there, and in fact unless orth really does just type random stuff all the time when alone, he not only knew Vin was there, but also was putting on a little show.

Yeah vgn this was the case exactly.  Though I put on a show by myself for the heck of it too sometimes. Heh.  The problem is I knew you were being stealthy just because I know your character.  Sometimes people just don't realize that the person was hiding if they have True Seeing up.  Maybe I'll make it so when someone is in stealth it shows somehow, so people with True Seeing know they are actually being stealthy... and for all intents and purposes they shouldn't be seeing them in the shadows.

[Leanthar]

"...Maybe I'll make it so when someone is in stealth it shows somehow, so people with True Seeing know they are actually being stealthy... and for all intents and purposes they shouldn't be seeing them in the shadows..."
  I like this idea, maybe put a colored glow around the one in stealth if somebody is looking at him/her with true seeing.

[steverimmer]

I wonder if a black or shadowy glow would work better

[ZeroVega]

Would it be possible for people with True Sight to see a 5 foot radius of darnkess around the person sneaking? That'd be kinda neat.

[Chibi]

Darkness isn't something you can change the radius of I'm afraid... It's just on or off -.-

The problem I see is: Once you've perceived the stealthy character with true sight on and you've checked that he's using stealth mode, how do you make it show the effect you want on the stealthed character without forcing the effect on everyone else who can see him (including himself)?

[LoganGrimnar]

I like where this is going, i alwese thought it was strang True seeing saw everything, maby take true seeing out and make it just see invisablity. but that likly wouldent work becouse it wouldent see through that clearc thing sancuary or whatever it is. The other day i was playing with one of my stealthy chars and just listening in on people talking about whatever when someone noticed me and the mage with them poped trueseeing on everyeone and chased me around Hlint, it was fun, but kinda wrong that why could see me. Stealth isent only good for PVP, somtime i like to take a stealthy char and fallow lower level chars to make shure they dont get in to deep, and then if they do i can halp and be gone again before they can confront me.

[ZeroVega]

  Honestly the regular Sanctuary spell isn't all that good. Almost anything that is a high enough level to cast True Seeing should be able to make the will save vs it, and since we don't want to be able to see sneaking characters taking it out, wouldn't be a horrible thing to do in my opinion.
    Greater Sanctuary makes you unseen no matter what so that one's out. Yeah, I'd say if it's possible, just toss See Invis on all them Dragons (their Will save should make it so regular Sanctuary doesn't effect em) and really the only thing that will definatly be changed is that they won't be able to see sneaking characters without making their check... is that even possible though? Taking the TS off dragons? Meh, anyway, sounds neat, I'm all for it.

[orth]

You can't toss See Invisibilty on a creature, it's not an ability, only a spell.

[ZeroVega]

  Huh, I've seen creatures spawn with spells on em, see invisibility being the major killer for me (as a wizard). Then again if it can't be an ability and only a spell someone could pop up and dispel it, then turn Invis again and have a free pass to wherever. Oh well, guess we suck it up and move on.