Evil

[Falonthas]

The word means many things, most of all what primarily every player on the servers fight against. Yes there are the small duos and trios who keep in their small groups plotting and trying to thwart the greater good,but many who are attempting to be the very minority,perhaps dont see what it really is.

Evil doesnt have to do with dressing in black and having a sinister voiceset, and covering yourself in skulls.
By the way those are the first ways you will be found out and in the end ripped apart by the goodies.

Evil on Layo for PC's is subtle, it isnt a planned shift to evil alignment worshipping Corath.Odds are you wont be approved for the shift unless you learn the subtlties that lie within the world we have all come to love so much.

Now, this is coming from actual knowing not guessing:
When your Evil the following will occur:
1- Clerics will know, as their god/goddess will tell them
This means if you die in combat, unless there is a reason beyond all matters of them being sick, whether you travel with them or not, you will be dead for a long time, Thats right no raise, no rez, and if on a DM quest, alot of laying on the floor begining to decompose.

2- Palladins will know, if the clerics havent already told them
Something about being a Holy Warrior for a god gives them a slight insight
(not to mention severe internal pains if they wander too close-thanks Ro)

3- To survive you need to think so far outside the box, you will find it hard to be devout, to whatever god/goddess you have chosen.
See evil means one primary thing in all aspects, they will give up prey, or coin, or divine love, for their own selfish hide, after all you cant formulate the downfall for your gods wishes if your dead now can you.

Evil on Layo is subtle. Yes im saying it again. And for those who are new it will be hard to think why or how it has to be subtle. Just because you worship an evil god/goddess, doesnt mean you are the anti-thesis of the land.

You have to earn your place, and that means you have to live long enough , to gain skill and power enough to be able to walk through the city gates and your very presense causes doom and gloom, not with any action, but with reaction from those around you.

If you try to be despicable and known when your character is starting out, chances are you will be found out rather quickly, and if you dont have a little group to run about with, you will spend alot of alone time.

One of the most evil characters I ever met, he was simply sick and deranged, but you know something, noone would want to take him outside for a fight cause you dont know what an evil person is capable of,(and yes thats you Czukay).But if you found him in full armor in the caves and he happen to be killing the same giants you were, you would bring him with you for simple survival.
You know hes foul, sick, twisted, and eats pieces of meat stuck to the spines on his armor, but he can fight and ,though he might not do so directly, save your collective behinds.

Evil can be many things, and those who learn how to be discreet and not show their whole hand at the table on the first bet, are the ones who will be around to win the pot.


Evil and Evil intend-tend-tobes

You have to think far ahead,outside the box, and lay your plans and have contingency plans within those plans.
Always have plans with plans, or you will find yourself surrounded by those who have discovered who you are, and you wont have the strength to stand against those who would put you under the stones and not think twice of ridding yet another Evil from the land.

[miltonyorkcastle]

Correction on point #1- I'm assuming you're referring to the divine relation "spell." Which does not inform a cleric of another PC's alignment, nor does it give away another PC's deity. Please see Divine Relation for the specifics and an example. The gods are actually not in the habit of giving away PC alignments, though during GM-run quests clerics and paladins have attempted to "detect evil." Unlike with Divine Relation, for which there is no counter, there are actually ways to block a "detect evil" attempt. My point being, a cleric/paladin may or may not be able to divine whether a PC is of an evil alignment--it's not a sure thing.


Otherwise, yeah, what Falonthas said: Blatant evil better be powerful or they'll get the smack-down from any nearby "good guys." Better to be tricky and subtle than to flaunt your selfish aims.

[Black Cat]

Evil and Divine relation are not the same...

A. A Cleric following Vorax (yes, yes.. I know) will cast divine relation on an Evil char who is not following any deity at all... what will my cleric learn? Nothing.. just that said evil char as a deity that (if any, I won't even know if he's a follower of any) is Neutral to Vorax.

B. But if a char is following, say Mist (*winks*), I will learn that said char's god is Enemy to my god but... said char is most probably good or neutral (Mist is a chaotic neutral deity, okay perhaps evil too... but I won't know either), but I won't know that for sure.

C. But of course if a char is following Corath, is dressing in black, wearing skull all over, speaking like a madman, etc... and I cast Divine relation (which I probably not even do, assuming outright that that char is evil... but then again I could be wrong), I will learn for sure that that char's deity is enemy to Vorax... and it won't take a genius to know (or at least think to know) that the char is Evil.

Now if I'm to travel with the first char (Evil, no deity), and if he is acting normal (i.e. not showing too much pleasure in killing, not killing for the love of it nor doing anything 'evil') I will never learn he is evil.. and might even become friend with it... only to have it blown in my face when said char will come out of the closest and blow the world up.

But you can be sure, my cleric will shun or be outright hostile to char C, refusing to help or travel with if he has a chance (provided I don't brought it behind bars... or challenged to death). And if I actually have to travel with (GM quest or anything), you can be sure I won't lift my little finger to help.

[Gulnyr]

Psst! Mist is Chaotic Neutral.

[Drizzlin]

Well I don't know where to begin, while I see the extremes of your statements, I feel you completely miss what it means to be evil on so many levels. Evil is not just an act, it is about intent.

I think some of what I consider to be evil people in the world we live in are people who on the outside are seen as "good" people by society as a whole. I mean look at the preachers caught molesting children. These are people who walked around in society seen as sacred and holy. (I am just pointing out the ones caught, and not saying all preachers do or have done this. I am just using this as an example of "evil" acts done by people.) The people didn't run around cutting the heads of chickens off in public and committing the evil acts you are suggesting in your post. These priests were seen in public as great men all the way up to being caught.

Then there are people who do evil acts every day, or at least what most would consider evil, and they are hardly evil. Sure they might be a bit twisted and have some mental issues. An example is the guy who flips that switch at the electric chair, or gives the shot to a patient on death row. No matter how you try to justify their acts, they are killing someone every time they do their job. Again I could psychoanalize their behaviors all day, however I would not call any of them evil. (nor do I rule out some of them may be, and have found the perfect job to get away with something legally, that they desire to do illegally)

You can be one of the most evil and vile creatures on the planet and never break a single law, nor would anyone ever know. You could sit there and take pleasure in torturing cancer patients about dying in person at the local hospital as a hobby, find amusement in hearing stories of abuse, rape, and sit down and eat a burger in front of starving children in Ethiopia and laugh at their plight.

Anyone who could do these acts and feel good about themselves in the morning is a sick individual, who has never broken a single law.

On Layo, as a player of an evil pc, the evil and vileness behind the characters thinking has zero to do with "acts" of evil. He is NE because he is out for himself on every single level. He takes pleasure in his beliefs of Hate and vengeance. He is the person that would throw away his gold before helping a single starving soul. He would rather die before showing compassion or love. He is incapable of even doing either one. Is he capable of terrible horrors? Yes, but that is just a small part of what makes him "evil".

I mean trading someone food for a part of their soul, simply to have the ability to rub that in their faces and know at the end of the day you are slowly draining apart of their life, simply for the joy of watching them suffer is evil. Now where is a law broken there. In fact the best part about it, is that the evil pc let the one trading make the choice on giving part of their soul. They used their charisma and the needs/greed of the person be their tool of evil.

I feel like I have rambled some and I can go on all day about this. The most evil people out there are the ones that you think to be saints. A person who can smile in your face and call you a friend, while stabbing you in the back and robbing you blind, are IMO some of the worse people out there. You may never even know they did it. Hell they may go out and help you try to right the wrong and you never find out it was them. Those people are out there and they have no conscious.

The act of doing something, knowing the consequences, knowing the moral dilemma involved, and then still doing the act doesn't make someone "evil". Doing the act while knowing those things, and enjoying it is a whole other question.

[miltonyorkcastle]

Drizzlin: Your post supports Falonthas' post, which was in essence, "Don't flaunt your evil-ness unless you want the good guys down your throat."

All of the examples you provided are of "evil" folks who co-exist with "good" folks by way of not making their intentions known, by being subtle.

And really, this thread is less about what it means to be evil, and more about how to play an evil character and not get jailed the first night you spend in Hempstead.

Though I would generally agree with your assessment of what it means to be evil.

[Script Wrecked]

If this were a thread about what it means to be evil, attached is a subsection from the Nymri Players Guide by Jim Canup (used with permission). I keep it just for the section on RPing evil. I'm not saying its definitive, but I found it insightful. It reiterates what Falonthas and Drizzlin have largely said, and makes a few other points and suggestions.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Script Wrecked.

[Pseudonym]

*points up*

Is a good read, do yourselves a favour!

[Spike]

Originally Posted by Pseudonym

*points up*

Is a good read, do yourselves a favour!

Yeah, I think this may help people to leave that comfort zone and branch out into another aspect of RP. Thanks Script Wrecked, its a good extract.