Dragon Caution and Choices

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Rowana's picture
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Layonara AdministratorGamemasterKatianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Mar 16 2006
Dragon Caution and Choices

Hello one and all,

It has been made known to us IC and OOC that there are a number of people killing dragons of late. As many of you probably know, it’s being kind of chatted about IC and OOC, and likely (I’m guessing) there's a little stressing out because of a certain incident with the Black Plague and what that means for everyone involved.

We can all appreciate the need for interaction and challenge, doing things that are a bit off-the-path, especially with the lack of quests on the calendars in the more recent times. However, I feel compelled to point out that killing dragons does not come without consequence. I know, fundamentally, you all know that. It is important for you to think very, very hard about that right now, about the balance of your fun time spent here and the “reality” of the IC events of the world.

We (Dorganath and I) just recently got approved for the events that will be following the recent killing (but not permadeath) of The Black Plague. The events are beginning in full very soon. Those folks who were involved know something is coming as there was a GM with them pretty much every step of the way.

There was not a GM involved with the killing of the others and we’re giving the people involved the option to walk that back and say it was just an OOC thing “for funsies”. If you do not choose this option, consequences will follow. We do NOT want to come off like we are targeting/persecuting people but the killing of dragons have ALWAYS brought to bear consequences, particularly since the defeat of Sinthar Bloodstone. (Remember, dragons have allies too, so retribution is not always a direct set of circumstances)

If you as players want to take your characters to take on dragons for the fun of the challenge or even for the difficulty of the journey there, that's fine. Keep your high-fives on the forums and in tells or any other medium that is not IC. No consequences will occur, no grudges will be held. Have fun! However, if you want to keep that dragon-killing encounter in your IC tally sheet, particularly if you want to become known as (or just brag about being) a “dragon slayer”, be prepared. Bloodstone’s death wasn’t that long ago and all that he has wrought is still quite fresh on the minds of the long lived creatures. Wars have begun that way, and dragons really do not have a sense of humor.

In some ways, this is very similar to some places we used to have in-game that were marked as plot areas. People were allowed to go in, look around even fight the things that existed there, but the two conditions were 1) nothing that happened there “counted” in any IC way, and 2) if you died and lost soul strands, it was all on you.

If anyone wants suggestions on how to reconcile going to have some fun confronting dragons with what we're talking about above, or if there are questions about what we mean by this, just ask! It would not be our first choice to kick off the Second Dragon War, but if enough of you want to play in that sandbox we can certainly oblige.

So, with all that in mind, knowing that we’re about to execute one set of consequences already (which cannot be averted), please make your choice so we can begin writing up any necessary pre-approval requests and get these balls rolling. Are you folks ready or even interested in the idea of having the very long lived and grudge-holding dragons as well as their varied allied supporters waging a war to defend themselves from the aggressive adventurers (and all the innocent folks who get in the way)?

~row (with Dorg)

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LucinditeMistiteGamemaster
Joined: Jul 2 2005

I suspect more people than you might think are all about another dragon war (Tori has gained a new dislike for dragons, for one!), but I think it's hard to reconcile the damage they can do with a GM piloting vs how easily they are killed in their lairs. Part of it is the whole old areas and pre-level 40s out every orifice thing, but I think it actually makes a kind of IC sense that players should consider OOC letting their characters in on.

Something like the Mosscrypt makes a kind of sense in a way  - consider that the Black Plague in flight is death from the sky with an AI and abilities we have no way of automating in NWN, so we use descriptions and dice. Grounded in his home base, he's vulnerable to a straight-up fight (or a dev crit :D ), but surrounded by very difficult minions that even a mid level group of adventurers is not going to be able to handle. So you can have simultaneously the impression from someone who fought one in a lair that a dragon is a pushover - in a specific set of circumstances or to the mightiest of warriors - and others who swear at the top of their lungs or get ready for retribution because they've seen them unleashed on the surface. 

I guess what I mean is, we shouldn't feel ripped off if they're harder to kill when they're not getting up from their nap, and even though a dragon's killability doesn't need to be blamed entirely on old areas, characters that have been in position to see their damage before wouldn't necessarily assume it would be an easy war, either... 

Looking forward to consequences from a player event, personally! Hope everyone else is, too.

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Angels Guild MemberRofireinite
Joined: Mar 22 2006

OOC - It was never my intent for the Black Plague to be killed.  I can only chalk it up to not paying attention and lack of experience in that particular area,  but it happened and I'm okay with consequences.  That said I am looking forward to the rp fallout as a player myself.

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IlsarianKatianRofireiniteToraniteXeenite
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I wasn't there for the initial incident, but I'm along for the ride for whatever comes out of it.

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LucinditeMistiteGamemaster
Joined: Jul 2 2005

cbnicholson wrote:

OOC - It was never my intent for the Black Plague to be killed.  I can only chalk it up to not paying attention and lack of experience in that particular area,  but it happened and I'm okay with consequences.  That said I am looking forward to the rp fallout as a player myself.

Don't apologize (except IC), we have our new Sinthar to hold on our shoulders I mean blame! Our shady friends take us all kinds of places *shifty* Tomorrow, perhaps the red light goblins strike back! *ahem*

:P

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GamemasterXeenitePrunillianDruidDoranditeToranite
Joined: Oct 8 2004

Bear in mind too that the Black Plague has committed HIS share of atrocities that never were answered for. ;)

Now as for dragon allies... *Magnar rubs his hands together and looks around for two particular orcs*

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LucinditeMistiteGamemaster
Joined: Jul 2 2005

That's why I think if people (characters) are gonna do it, they should do it all the way and accept that there will be erm... casualties in attempting it... *shifty* A flatfooted one-shot and respawn is far less than that particular dragon deserves for all its crimes *nods sagely* though I imagine it was totally humiliated... and... upset... 

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GamemasterXeenitePrunillianDruidDoranditeToranite
Joined: Oct 8 2004

And we should keep a scoreboard!  That way the players and dragons involved knows who's on one another's little list of grudges and who has the bragging rights. :D

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Angels Guild MemberDruid
Joined: Oct 21 2008

Nice to see actions do have consequences!  I'm excited to see were this goes good or bad or nasty.  Vrebel is ready too by the way and would like another crack at Blacky (he's a bit weak in the underbelly).

Thanks for the IC/OOC explanation on the dragons as that was  always a weird one for me as a player.  But, if your still going to let us have a go at dragons without consequences (as long as we don't broadcast it IC or proclaim ourselves dragonslayers IC ) it would be nice if they were a bit tuffer mechanically.  Suggesting maybe tweak their stats a bit or maybe their minions to adjust to the level of play we have now.

Thanks,

Willhoff aka Vrebel the Foul

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Layonara AdministratorDruidFolianiteGamemasterLucinditeWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Oct 1 2004

willhoff wrote:

Thanks for the IC/OOC explanation on the dragons as that was  always a weird one for me as a player.  But, if your still going to let us have a go at dragons without consequences (as long as we don't broadcast it IC or proclaim ourselves dragonslayers IC ) it would be nice if they were a bit tuffer mechanically.  Suggesting maybe tweak their stats a bit or maybe their minions to adjust to the level of play we have now.

It's already underway. *grins*

The fact is, they were balanced 10+ years ago when the expectations of high-epic-level characters would be very rare (because we had a prohibition on going past level 20 without an ECDQ/WLDQ), so the intent was parties of high but sub-epic levels (generally speaking) for the occasional challenge during the Bloodstone age. During that time, their want of leaving their lairs to seek retribution on uppity adventurers was pretty low because of the threat that Bloodstone presented. Fast forward...the world has moved on in IC and OOC ways, but dragons were never made more appropriate for the new landscape. As Acacea noted, the real strength and power of dragons cannot be really well-represented mechanically, but we can certainly make them a lot more of a challenge.

Besides, it's not really fair to make judgments on the ease of killing a flat-footed, AI-Disabled and controlled creature while its GM was still typing a response to you. *winks*

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GamemasterXeenitePrunillianDruidDoranditeToranite
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*Farros plays 80s montage music as the dragons work out for their next encounter*


http://layonara.com/sites/layonara.com/files/dragonworkout.jpg">

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FolianiteToranite
Joined: Dec 24 2006

I will admit to not remembering if Tyrra was there for Dragon killing, but if she was I suspect I'll be seeing consequences anyway.  Been hard to get IG at all anyway but I do love being involved in world shaking, so I look forward to these events...  Just not dying from them xD

EDIT:  To be clearer, because I'm often not clear, I am not asking for a Dragon War.  Not even sure I was there for any dragon killing though I'm willing to guess I was there for one if it happened on one of the round robins in July.  That said, looking forward to what's coming if it hasn't come yet.  I don't think I've been in game for.... 2 months...  :'(

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