Dwarf rules of adoption or dwarf-kin

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AeridiniteAngels Guild MemberDorandite
Joined: Jun 4 2006
Dwarf rules of adoption or dwarf-kin

Dalan Stoneaxe has been considering trying to become the legal uncle as far as the dwarf clans would consider it, of Abbie Firesteed. Her mother, Sa'kura is dead. Her father, Barion is very much alive. Now Dalan in no way wants to interfere in Barion's raising of his daughter, so he is not looking for the typical adoption. Instead, Abbie has called him Uncle for as long as she could talk. He would like to formalize that honor somehow for purposed of the dwarf clans. He doesn't really think that he can somehow become Sa'kura's brother for purpose of being Abbie's actual uncle.


Dalan realizes that he could leave a Will naming her the heir of his property. He might very well do that. What he would like to do now is to teach her the one true tongue, the language of the dwarfs. He would like her to be more then just dwarf-friend but instead his kin and recognized as such by the clans.


I didn't see anything like this in LORE, but could have easily missed it as well. As anyone heard of anything like this before?


If not, I would very much appreciate suggestions of how to go about rping this idea. Any possible pitfalls or problems that someone could foresee would also be appreciated. I also don't know if this idea would offend the ruling heads of the dwarf clans ((ie gms that handle the history and roles of the dwarfs.))


If she can't become his kin for that purpose, what of dwarf-friend. I would assume it takes more then one dwarf saying she is my friend to achieve that rare status.


Thanks in advance for any input.


EdTheKet's picture
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Joined: Jan 15 2004

First of all, this Abbie is not a PC, correct?


Secondly, adopting somebody to be your cousin/niece is something that's not really possible. Even if they'd both be humans, which is not the case.


She can call him her uncle of course, even without an official family thing, but she won't be just 'added' to some dwarven clan.


Also, not sure what you mean by the "rare status" of dwarf-friend. There's many people who have dwarves as friends, it's not some special rank we have defined here.


LynnJuniper's picture
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Branderbackian
Joined: Mar 4 2006

I think he means accepted into hallowed halls of dwarfdom and treated as Kin, Like in the book Eragon Ed. Like you said if its not a special thing we have then its not a special thing, but that's what he meant.


Like...how there are some voraxite humans that may be treated with more respect to dwarves or ..something..for example


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AeridiniteAngels Guild MemberDorandite
Joined: Jun 4 2006

Exactly Lynn and Abbie will be a character some day. She is the daughter of Sa'kura and Barion Firesteed. She has her own journal in the character dev. threads. Scifibarbie plans on submitting her as a character when she has gone beyond the age of childhood **since rules are that you cannot play a child in Layo.**


From what I have seen, the dwarfs here are a very close knit family of players. I was trying to find out if in the imaginary history of layo there is some lore on the subject. If there is not, then I assume I can gather some of the dwarfs such as Kobal and perhaps Varka and create a ritual for what I am looking for.


I know for instance the halflings as described by Acacea have the desert tribes and some rituals there. Perhaps they are all player based, I don't know. I was asking if there was anything currently defined by the gms and loremasters of Layo.


jan
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Joined: Apr 17 2005

Maybe it helps and maybe it doesnt but i'll chip in a bit .


Barion Firesteed has over the years he lived helped three dwarven clans and has an ongoing invitation from three Thains to come visit and sleep when ever he is around.

Maybe that would make it easier for Dalan to have Barion's daughter accepted in the halls of his clan,dont know realy.

The least it would mean in my oppinion is that Abigail , since she is the child off Barion, would be allowed in the halls of the dwarven easier then others.


Jan A.K.A. Barion


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CorathiteRofireiniteVoraxian
Joined: Sep 28 2004

In my opinion it takes a lot of effort and sometimes even actions of epic proportions to earn enough respect to be called a part of a certain clan. This of course varies for every clan.


However even if one would be named "Half-dwarf" due to some heroic action, then he would still have hig credit with the certain clan, not all of them. Relations of clans are a big factor here.


Speaking of rituals, a few select PCs who managed to become dear friends of certain dwarves have been named "Half-dwarves" and wear this title with honor. After that, it's up to the dwarves that give them the title to spread the word through their own actions.


Weeblie's picture
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Joined: Dec 21 2005

I would want to add that if this will be a PC in the future, be careful of what titles like these are going to be added.


The submission can be rejected due to the "no nobility"-rule.


I'm not sure if it's the case with "half-dwarf" but it's surely approaching the line of "too much power/fame" for a level 1 character. :)


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LucinditeMistiteGamemasterWriting Team Member
Joined: Jul 2 2005

They're not really going for nobility, simply something like having Dalan formally adopting her into his clan, so that she will be recognized and protected just as if she were kin. How to say to them, "this man has saved my life and the life of other dwarves countless times, and I want to ensure the safety of his daughter who I have sworn to care for" etc etc.


In other words, just as if one created a normal level one character in the Stoneaxe clan, or a PC raised within the clan had the language on creation because of growing up with them etc...we have several.


I would agree that it would be his particular clan and not necessarily all of them, but it doesn't really seem like a totally out there question for Dalan's clan specifically considering her father's relation with a few separate clans.


Weeblie's picture
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Joined: Dec 21 2005

Hehe... this is what happens when one only glances through the posts. :P


I can surely see it happen that a single clan (or a few) accepts the child as their "own" but that the child in question would reach generally acceptance among almost all the dwarven clans? Hm... the later is very unlikely unless he or she has done something truly great, in my opinion.


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GamemasterXeenitePrunillianDruidDoranditeToranite
Joined: Oct 8 2004

Ultimately I think it'd be up to the head of the clan to decide what kind of relative status a nondwarf would have in the clan. So you'd have to ask old papa Stoneaxe about membership. Dwarves are mired in tradition and venerate their clan elders almost to the point of Feudalism, so they often do very little regarding honorary titles and relations without first getting permission from the clan's head.

jan
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Joined: Apr 17 2005

Quote:
Hehe... this is what happens when one only glances through the posts. :P


I can surely see it happen that a single clan (or a few) accepts the child as their "own" but that the child in question would reach generally acceptance among almost all the dwarven clans? Hm... the later is very unlikely unless he or she has done something truly great, in my opinion.


I mentioned the name off the father and his deeds because i made the assumption that the name "Firesteed"could be vieuwed upon in a friendly manner if the dwarven clans exchange information .


I think all Dalan wants is to officialy make Abigail part of his life and hopefully his clan , hes not trying to get Abigail accepted by more then one clan.


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Voraxian
Joined: Apr 14 2006

To me it sounds like a CDQ for Dalan. The results of the CDQ can be added into Abigail's character application.


EdTheKet's picture
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Quote:
it's surely approaching the line of "too much power/fame" for a level 1 character.


I'm leaning towards agreeing with Weeblie's statement above.

Getting a non-existing character already some status while it's not being played yet doesn't feel appropriate


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LucinditeMistiteGamemasterWriting Team Member
Joined: Jul 2 2005

I think the child of Barion Firesteed will have some fame, yes. Not because a dwarf adopted her - who is really going to care about that, other than other dwarves shaking their heads and laughing at the silly Stoneaxe clan, until they hear the name of her father and possibly recognize it? Barion fought at the Bloodwell at the end, alongside Kobal Bluntaxe; he is a mark in history and yes, his children will be known for that. He has invitations from three thains to stay with them, yes - do we disallow the child of the hero because this character has done 'too many good deeds' ...?

Have we not already several other "child of adventurer" PCs who have set the precedent that the relative status inherited from the parents is an earned one?

The child is going to have some small degree of reputation to live up to with or without some dwarf adopting her into his small clan, I'm not sure where the fame part kicks in for that. If this were a brand new PC asking for the dwarven ear, raised by dwarves after being found alone as a babe or something, taking the clan name for his own and worshipping dwarven gods and all that, we'd approve it and there would be no thoughts of fame, hehe.

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AeridiniteAngels Guild MemberDorandite
Joined: Jun 4 2006

I must admit I am totaly confused how such a simple request for information as turned into such a problem. I have reread my posts, and I totally fail to see how I asked for fame, fortune or nobility for Abbie. I also fail to see where I stated I was trying to do something before she was even in the game. In fact, I indicated they would eventualy be a character, hopefully here.


I have no idea where the term half dwarf came from, but if does not sound like anything I was asking about. I was asking about any dwarf traditions that were all ready in place but not really written up in Lore. I was asking for rp ideas. I am asking now, because I like to plan ahead a bit and if going to do something, do it right the first time.


I am sorry my post has apparently caused such a furor here. I had thought it would be nice to have a quiet private ceremony with Dalan's friends to tell them about Abbie after she was in game and the special connection she as.

As far as I can tell, the dwarf adventurers here do not really belong in a particular clan that has formal recognized connections to the npc's. We mostly, it seems to me, rp from being from a particular city or place.


However, since this seems to be causeing so much problem with people, I guess I will drop the whole idea. I can always talk to a few of the dwarfs privately and ask them to watch over her for me. I had hoped to make this a fun and interesting rp event in Dalan's and Abbie's life some day in the future.

I was hoping to get suggestions and ideas for how to do this and to make sure it fit in with the unwritten lore of the dwarfs here on layo. I was trying to plan ahead. However, it appears this particular idea will not work out.


Thanks Jan and Acacia for your input here.


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FolianiteRofireiniteVoraxian
Joined: Apr 9 2006

Family...always fun, always complicated. :D


Just so nobody gets the wrong idea and for those who may or may not have read her thread.


Aside from the Firesteed name, I am trying to write her thread to be in line with the rules for character submission and her backstory for said submission. If a GM feels there is something that is out of line or may cause some problems with the rules as they are laid out they just need to let me know and I will correct it as best as I can. :)


That said, I have endeavored to try and keep her storyline somewhat spontaneous. Writing my own little stories and trying to interweave those stories with people who are a part of her life. If another character has written something in their particular thread, then I try to expand on it. Sometimes the way they want, sometimes not. There has been no PMing of ideas or themes in the story so far aside from the occasional "can i be mentioned?".


Everything written so far has happened with other characters is because of actions outside of the Abi thread. I just incorporated them into her life. If dad (barion) says or does something fatherly (like the move to haven) I have no say in the subject. He is dad after all.


Now, as far as the whole becoming Dalan's adopted niece or whatever..thats something totally on him. So far as Abi is concerned he is just unki Dalan (yes thats the correct spelling). The same way many peoples kids call the close friends of their parents uncle or auntie.


If he wants to pursue this in his own thread, so long as it doesnt create issues for Abi in her eventual move to PC. He can do what he wants.


The only request I have made of people who wanted to be a part of the thread is that they be sure to understand that whatever they write should have some natural way into it . Example: Dalan and Sakura were close friends, so after her death it was only natural for dalan to inquire about her daughter Abi. He then went to Barion and asked permission to see her, the rest is as you see it. And contrary to what some people may think, everything that has happened in their interactions has been totally spontaneous. O.o


As far as her future, adn how the rules go for not receiving anything to start a character in a way that gives them any advantages. I have several ideas on that when the time comes.


Just remember she is still quite aways from being submitted as a PC as she is only 11 or so by calender conversion. And this world can change quickly and unexpectedly.


Questions? Comments? Send me a PM. Otherwise...


Enjoy the story and Ozy's eventual move to puppeteer! ;)


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FolianiteRofireiniteVoraxian
Joined: Apr 9 2006

Oh..I think I forgot to mention this...


I dont think its a problem since it doesnt confer any special status to Abi.


It just adds another dimension to the relationship between Abi and Dalan, and fleshes out Dalans character alot more. :)


EdTheKet's picture
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Joined: Jan 15 2004

Quote:
I must admit I am totaly confused how such a simple request for information as turned into such a problem.


Nah, no problem. It's just not the simple request you thought it was :)


Quote:
From what I have seen, the dwarfs here are a very close knit family of players. I was trying to find out if in the imaginary history of layo there is some lore on the subject. If there is not, then I assume I can gather some of the dwarfs such as Kobal and perhaps Varka and create a ritual for what I am looking for.


Contrary to popular belief there is no big dwarven nation or alliance, nor are all the clans on friendly terms. Yes, most dwarves being played are quite close knit, all the clans however, are not.

Not too long ago there were the race wars, so there's not all of a sudden going to be non-dwarves adopted into dwarven clans.

We try hard to keep the world consistent, so a suggestion or question like yours above (which hasn't been asked before), needs to be talked and thought about before implementing (if it gets implemented).

So asking Kobal and Varka and maybe some others and invent a ritual is an option, for it to be officially implemented in Layonara dwarven society/structure, it'll have to be approved by me to keep the world consistent.


You asked for possible pitfalls and problems, hence my replies :)


Quote:
If this were a brand new PC asking for the dwarven ear, raised by dwarves after being found alone as a babe or something, taking the clan name for his own and worshipping dwarven gods and all that, we'd approve it and there would be no thoughts of fame, hehe.


True, yet then it was from babe onwards and it'd be an orphan. This is a child with a father who's still alive. And yes, the father may have invitations from some thains to come and enjoy their hospitality, but even the father is not accepted in any of those clans. So I don't really see why his daughter could become adopted into a clan rather suddenly.


Quote:
I had hoped to make this a fun and interesting rp event in Dalan's and Abbie's life some day in the future.


That wasn't really clear from your initial post, I was thinking you were asking about doing it all that prior to the character even being approved.

That your character 'accepts her as kin' should not be a problem, but an entire clan is a totally different story.


Becoming a kind of honorary clan member is certainly within the realm of possibilities when playing, but I'd think there's need for a CDQ (or multiple ones) then first.


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AeridiniteAngels Guild MemberDorandite
Joined: Jun 4 2006

Well I want to thank you EdTheKet for the last post. I really didn't think it would be that complicated, but I thought it would help to ask long before I wanted to try to implement it. I am very glad I did. I haven't been involved in a CDQ and as busy as everyone is, I am a bit hesistant to waste gm time over this. I will wait till Abbi is actually in game and then see how it goes from there. I assume that if want to try this once she is in game, I would need to contact both you and a gm to run the CDQ.


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