State of Layonara and its Future

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State of Layonara and its Future

Hello folks, I hope you and your families are doing well. The past five years have been very successful for Layonara, the little Pen and Paper world growing into a very vibrant and rich realm of fantasy and fun.


Over this time, Layonara has gone through many changes as faces came and left, team members volunteered their efforts and the gamemasters, the writers and of course, you, the players shaped the world. We took the Neverwinter Nights game engine to places I never imagined could be possible with the help of the Project Team and the lead developers. However, just like any good gamemasters, we have been thinking ahead, maneuvering and planning in the background.


For the past two and half years, a small group has been developing a new version of Layonara, one that does not use the NwN engine in any fashion and indeed not a single bit of its code or art. This group of individuals then formed Layonara Studios LLC, investing thousands of hours, dollars and air miles toward brainstorming, designing, programming, writing, building, art, marketing, legal and financial issues and many other aspects to the next generation of Layonara. These Board Members are: Dorganath, Pankoki, EdTheKet, OneST8, orth, Rhizome, Thak, myself and my wife, Beverly. Our team has also grown with additional members from both within the Layonara community and from the outside as we recognized dedication, talent, teamwork, trust and the willingness to take a risk with ones time and effort. This awesome team now totals 22 members. The other members that are on the team (and not listed above) are: Boxcar, Carter, Chongo, EonBlue, Eorendil, Honora, Kolgrima, Laldiien, Minerva, Nibor, Rasterick, Raxx, and Rowana. They all fill various important roles on the team.


With all that stated, the NwN world is slowly shrinking and some of our best assets and time are spent upon it and it is time we divert these valuable resources to the future. Nibor is working on the final update for Layonara NwN, except for the possibility of critical fixes. He will then be moving over to the new product to provide us some much needed help. This next massive update being lead by Nibor and worked on by the entire Project Team includes Central and East are being merged and about 20%-25% of those area being completely rebuilt with loads of creatures, items and entire area updates and additions. It is a pretty major update that has been worked on by a number of individuals for several months.


We will keep the world up as it is now but running on less server resources which is not a big deal since the community is diminishing. The GM Team will still be running quests like they do now and like everybody knows and loves. Making your mark on the history and lore of Layonara will transcend to the next generation and the result of many of the final quest series will shape the world to come. The Project Team, however, will no longer update or work on NwN and indeed will likely be dismantled within a month or two, at least the few that still remain and are somewhat active. The Writing Team is still working on the Layonara history and lore, like they have been for years. Their work will remain very important in this and the next incarnation of Layonara and I hope they continue their work.


The NwN servers will stay up and running until it either a) gets to expensive for me to keep it running, so keep donating as this is important for NwN or b) the world or community becomes to much of a hassle in terms of time, effort, or headaches for the servers to stay online or c) we make it to beta testing of the new product which is still a ways away. Layonara is not going away, nor is it fading away; but much rests on the communities shoulders for how long the NwN servers remain online.


I am sorry, but we cannot and will not talk about the new product beyond what I have mentioned already. So please do not PM me or anyone else asking for any more information. We are also not taking any sort of applications at this time for volunteers.


Rest assured, this next generation revolves around Layonara, online roleplaying, and a fun and immersive world. We do not know when the new product will be out nor do we know when it will be in beta, the official words are "when it is ready." Other than that you will need to wait for announcements and updates as that is all we are saying at this time.


So Layonara on the NwN engine will stay online for now but for how long I cannot say as that greatly depends on the community as a whole. Layonara will continue on to a new dawn with a new engine at some point down the road. If the donations continue and are enough to keep the servers running (it is not there right now btw) and the community is positive and remains active then the NwN version of Layonara should be around until at least December.


I want to make it clear that we fully understand that some of you will likely view this in a negative light, it is not negative though. It is a heads up on what is coming down the pipe for Layonara. Layonara is going to grow and it is going to be using its own engine, something that will give us more flexibility to do more of what we want to do in order to support the community. So, please understand that this is a positive thing for Layonara and try to think along those lines.


There are many great things coming for Layonara!


Stay tuned for more information, screenshots, and much more at a later time.


The FAQ has been moved to the MMO Forum:


http://forums.layonara.com/layonara-mmo/157522-faq-general.html


hawklen's picture
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Will it run on linux?


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DruidPrunillianVoraxian
Joined: Dec 7 2005

From the work I've seen on the game systems in NWN, I am quite looking forward to the future!


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CorathiteIlsarian
Joined: Jan 15 2007

I'm confused, for lack of better word... So this is a new game it's switching to, and everything people worked for is gone?


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DruidGrannochianMistite
Joined: Dec 28 2006

For those of us who wish to help out, what is the best way to do this? Just donate cash? Or are there other ways we can be helpful as a community?


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FolianiteToranite
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Interia_Discordius wrote:
I'm confused, for lack of better word... So this is a new game it's switching to, and everything people worked for is gone?


Oh I really hope not...


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Quote:
Will my character be able to re-created in this project?

This is a complicated question that is difficult to address without getting more into detail about the project. Characters will not be transferred over from NWN in any way of that we are certain.


To answer your question about your current PC


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CorathiteIlsarian
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It just bothers me that NOTHING will be transferred. I'm fine with restarting levels, equipment, and houses and such... But the idea that the very characters some of us have been developing since we've joined is lost doesn't click with me. It makes me ask why do we bother, why did this all work out? Most likely with the new engine people will just recreate what relationships they had as a character anyways, at least I will. I don't understand why it's not that difficult to just bring the characters over to the new search engine development wise...


If we're losing everything, my question is, why would anyone switch over unless they're willing to start over? It makes me ask why do we even bother? I don't want to switch over if it means I lose the very character I've come to love to roleplay...


It makes everything feel completely and totally pointless. I'm sure a lot of people will agree. Sorry for speaking up, but I'm not staying quiet when I'm told something I've put over 5 months of almost literally total waking hours is going to be thrown away with a decision.


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@Inertia, right... lets compare here shall we?


What company out there making online games allow you to transfer a character from one game to another game...for that matter from a server to another server within the same game. Get real.


"....It makes me ask why do we bother, why did this all work out?..."


Because it is a GAME! Games do not usually have a shelf life of but a few months, we have lasted for over 5 years so far. Life evolves and if we do not evolve on our own we will close down the servers entirely. That means either way things end. This is the better alternative believe it or not.


"....If we're losing everything, my question is, why would anyone switch over unless they're willing to start over? It makes me ask why do we even bother?...."


Totally up to each of you in the community, your decision if you come or not, but this is happening. Sorry you don't like it but it is just life man, things change and things evolve, like it or not. We don't want to lose people in the community but we also know it will happen, but that is the choice of each individual.


"....but I'm not staying quiet when I'm told something I've put over 5 months of almost literally total waking hours is going to be thrown away with a decision...."


Not even sure where to start with that one man. We have people that have characters that are 3 or more years old. I have been doing this for over 5 years. If you don't like it I don't know what to tell you.


There will likely be some options available for people who feel they want to continue with the same character name


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hawklen wrote:
Will it run on linux?


Yes, Windows, Linux and Mac


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DruidLucindite
Joined: Apr 24 2006

Wow, this is really exiting. I am glad that Layonara is going to grow and evolve rather then shrink and die. This community is the best RP based community one could ever hope for. Ultimately Laynara's spirit is what people have worked for, and I am sure it will only get better.


AeonBlues


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Not sure if you were here Kinai, but it was the same deal from V2 to V3. It may be a simple thing like a significant time jump into the future...

Either way, I doubt our characters would've never existed. At the very worse they're just long into the history of layonara forever remembered...


and most of which with desendents ;)


And L: I think you understand that people are going to be upset with loosing characters they've come to associate with. You see it during perm-deaths all the time, they feel as if they're loosing relationships they've worked hard on, even if it is just a game, albeit a social game in which relationships are 100x more important than stats or levels.


Like you said there's little that can be done..but once again I just want to tell everyone I'm certain your characters , even if gone, would not be forgotten in the world of Layo :)


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Quote:
Will it run on linux?


Every effort will be made for native WinXP, OS X and Linux support "out of the box".


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You should all be thankfull we convinced Leanthar not to shut the whole thing down already!


;)


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AeridiniteCorathiteDruidRofireinite
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@Interia - I think I had much the same initial reaction as yourself, and then I remembered (at the risk of sounding like a poor man's Paulo Coelho) that it is the journey that is the fun part - not the destination for our characters. Don't know if that gives some perspective.


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I have updated the initial FAQ (at the end of the first post) with some answers to the questions asked so far. In case you are looking for answers I will try to keep them up there.


ShiffDrgnhrt's picture
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FolianiteToranite
Joined: Dec 24 2006

I am thankful, to be honest... I just, I'm gonna miss NWN and some of the friends ive made if they dont stay =(


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CorathiteIlsarian
Joined: Jan 15 2007

Yeah, like Jess said... It's not the problem of anything besides just losing my character development. Bothers me we can play descendents and such, if that's the case, but we can't keep the character. It's obviously not a problem with history if we're playing descendents of our previous characters. I don't understand what the problem is. This sort of completely took me unaware, like a smack across the face, so please understand that I'm reacting totally negatively. I think I just need to be spelled out to, patiently, why the name and story behind a character can't be remade...Or did I misunderstand that?


orth's picture
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Leanthar wrote:
There will likely be some options available for people who feel they want to continue with the same character name


Just wanted to point this out in case it got lost....This is why the one FAQ on character re-creation is complicated but we can't get into it at this time.


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"....I think I just need to be spelled out to, patiently, why the name and story behind a character can't be remade...Or did I misunderstand that?..."


Points to Orths post above, and to mine above that. You can always start your character over in the new game, it just will not be THE one you are playing in NwN, if you know what I mean. Its really up to you what will be played in the new game.


Interia_Discordius's picture
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CorathiteIlsarian
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Okay...As long as I can keep her personality, history, and that sort of thing, I'm totally cool with the switch.


One actually, relevant question... Is this new place going to be pay to play?


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GamemasterWriting Team Member
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@Interia, please read the FAQ in the first post, that question is answered there.


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CorathiteIlsarian
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Wow, okay, my brain's shut down.


I think I'll put this aside and return when it's actually working. Thank you for your patience.


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Branderbackian
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This may seem obvious, but I guess if Layo is going to be sold and such, character approval process is gone?


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I have updated the FAQ above again.


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Layonara AdministratorDruidFolianiteGamemasterLucinditeWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Oct 1 2004

On characters...


The very fact that there's a new engine in play means we cannot transfer characters. We wouldn't have been able to do that if we went to NWN2 either, so the same kinds of things apply.


To go any further, I point simply at what has been said above: There will likely be options, but at this time we can't really discuss them.


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The trick is, and Leanthar has mentioned this, to leave your mark on the world. Times change, things change, and we must move on. It's either Growth or stagnation; there is nothing in between. Leanthar pointed this out as well.


If you have left a mark on the world of Layonara, all that you have worked for, laughed over, cried over, and anything else that makes RP so much fun and so much work at the same time, will not "die." It won't go to waste.


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LucinditePrunillianToranite
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Well I think its cool Layo is moving on into a whole new engine.

L I have been here 3 years and I know I have been a pain in the butt sometimes.

I love Layo some days and other days I hate it but I keep coming back because its one of the best servers I ever played on.

Thanks for the good times and I hope to play on the new engine if im welcomed.


Force


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Angels Guild MemberBeryliteMistiteToraniteXeenite
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Quote:
This may seem obvious, but I guess if Layo is going to be sold and such, character approval process is gone?

I for one hope it is not. I hate to see a Druid that believes it is okay to wear full plate or someone saying they are the son of Corath.

Also I believe that one will not be able to play a single player game but it will be more like WoW but sticking hard to the value of RP and realism. I am sure they will have some type of code or some other means to make sure what I said above does not happen, but giving that this will be sold around the world is kinda scary to know that it might be really hard to control what type of char is submitted.

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Angels Guild MemberBeryliteMistiteToraniteXeenite
Joined: Jan 18 2004

Which makes me think of another question.


Will this be just multiplayer or are there plans to have a single player campaign as well?


Toby


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Angels Guild MemberLucindite
Joined: Jan 13 2007

L and the team


Thank you for the heads up? You don't owe us a thing and I appreciate the courtesy you have shown us by taking the time to let us know what is going on. I for one look forward to what you guys have done and continue to support your efforts. I will continue to support the team and your project for as long as I am able and it is still around.

Thanks again,

Mooneyes


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AeridiniteAngels Guild MemberFolianiteRofireinite
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My initial reaction is skepticism, the part of me resistant to change, the part of me that took over 4 months of badgering and persuasion by my Beloved and best friend to convince me to come to Layonara to begin with.


My initial reaction is the normal reaction of us all. We have become comfortable and dependent on a world thats only change has been the characters developement.


Its time though to see the PC's behind the characters develope though and look at this with more optimism than skepticism. This is chance to hopefully bring things we have learned from the current realm of Layo, into a new world and make that new world as enjoyable as what we have come to love of this old comfy shoe. Sometimes the holes grow to big though and we have to toss it out and buy a new set of shoes.


Leanthar, I thank you and the rest of the team as always for all the hard work and dedication you put into this server that have made it so immersive and great, that I would give up another game to come play.


I have met so many terrific and wonderful people here that share my passion for writing, that I admire because of their skill and creativity that I look forward to the future. I am only sorry that my Beloved and I have not been able to contribute more to the supporting of this wonderful place.


I hope we look at this as an opprotunity to let go of the old and move on to new things with an open mind and heart.


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Question: Is Layo still going to be a D20 (aka DnD) world?


If you can't answer, that's cool. I'm just curious.


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FAQ is updated in first post.


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Quote:
This may seem obvious, but I guess if Layo is going to be sold and such, character approval process is gone?


The details of features/processess like this will be disclosed in future announcements.


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Druid
Joined: Apr 11 2006

all sounds good to me,with a new engine it could be seen as like ascension of a sort?


but im sad i thought i had the pain in the butt award sewed up with bells and ribbons,and now force has claimed it dang it


hmm have to think on this


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Angels Guild MemberIlsarianPrunillian
Joined: Apr 7 2006

Gah! Now I have so many questions, most of which probably can't be answered at this time for legal reasons or whatnot. But I would like to ask, "Will the new Layonara be at the cost of a recurring monthly fee, like most MMORPG's, or will it be like Guild Wars, with only one initial purchase required?" I understand if you can't yet say though.


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I hate to be the first to make the huge negative post, but what the hell? For 2.5 years, this project has gone on in the background unbeknownst to everyone that wasn't involved in it, all the while we get threats that the server will be shut down if we don't donate to keep the costs down. I'm sorry, but I call B.S.


If it's too expensive to run Layo's servers and keep it going, how is it affordable to develop a completely standalone game. I understand the volunteer thing, but volunteers that are "investing thousands of hours, dollars and air miles" ? I see two reasons that could be true: 1, they've got money to spare, or 2, they've been promised returns from the profits of the new game. If it's the first case, then I say they should've been helping foot the server costs. If it's the latter, well, I guess good for them.


Believe me, I'm all for change. I was a happy camper when V3 rolled out and we had some new flavor to take in. I don't even mind so much the character submission process and the development required for most PrC's. I wasn't even opposed to help donate to keep things going. My wife and I had a $10 paypal subscription almost since the beginning of our time here. I will not, however, pay two subscriptions for my wife and I to play on a game that I was not aware of even being developed.


Had this project been announced 2.5 years ago when it started, had I been aware of it, maybe my opinions would be different. Maybe I would be still on the bandwagon for it. What is my opinion though?


This has all been a dirty, under-handed trick. I've made my donations to keep the server alive, and for what? The server is going to be shut down when this new project is finished. Oh sure, I can stay with Layonara, but now I'll be *required* to pay if I want to play on it. that. I will NOT pay someone to have a set of rules put on how I can play and develop my character in *any* way. And guess what, since this is your own creation, you won't have to have written rules, they'll just be coded into the game.


that.


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Mistite
Joined: Apr 13 2006

Well bud, I suppose that's one way to respond to it. 1 year prior, 3.5 years prior...


I think many will misread this and think it's imminent and impending doom. This is the far away warning you just referred to, and it's the courtesy of Leanthar to open everyone's eyes to it so early in the game. I mean, it's a ways off. Hell, I'm probably going to donate this week. I for one am looking forward to the next year of NWN or whatever it ends up being.


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The main reason we didn't go and notify everyone as soon as we had plans was because we never were sure if it'd come to fruition... We never wanted to be known for vapourware, what if we asked people to support the new game and plan for this 2.5 years ago and then the new game never came out? How often could we cope with "So how's the other game coming along, when's it going to be out" from a massive community, when we didn't have any idea ourselves.


It is finally becoming a reality for us, and we're excited to share it with the community a good while ahead of time.


As for this

Quote:
If it's the first case, then I say they should've been helping foot the server costs. If it's the latter, well, I guess good for them.
Um, who do you think has been paying the difference for all the servers? Who has been footing the rest of the bills?


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So then do not donate pejsaboy. But rest assured all donations are what kept this server going for the past 3 years and will keep it going in to the future. The first two years I had no problems doing it on my own, namely because we were on one or two servers counting the website. For the past few years we have been on 5-7 servers, that is a HUGE difference in monthly costs; huge.


You say we could have talked about 2.5 years ago or even a year ago or whatever... but you fail to understand what it takes to develop a game in the first place. What if we had annouced and then could not follow through on what we were trying to do (for any number of reasons)? That would be pretty silly. We did not annouce because far too much was up in the air and we did not want to say one thing and provide/create another, and yes that sure does happen in development.


We could have also just shut it all down the day we went live with the next version but we didn't want to do that. We wanted to give people a heads up knowing full well we would have to waste our times on posts like yours (and darkwulfs) for instance. But we did it because we care about the community, believe it or not and clearly you do not but that is okay; to each their own.


We do not have money to spare and I find that laughable to the extreme, and I mean to the extreme. You are entitled to your opinion but you are way off on just about everything you stated there. Your call though, and your opinion. If you don't want to donate (and clearly you do not) then do not donate. You are still welcome to play just like the 1000s of others that play and do not donate and never have for the past 5 years. It sounds like you do not want to play here and again that is your call and your option, to each their own in life. Everybody makes their own decisions in life, good or bad one never knows until the path is clear in the future.


And yeah, what Orth stated is spot on!


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*sits back and watches, chaos being his element*


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CorathiteIlsarian
Joined: Jan 15 2007

The mention of lack of donations just hurts... I'll say right now if I could have I would have. The donations thread really did show how many people are unable to donate for various reasons, most of them being unable to or no credit card to if I recall correctly. My only worry is, if so many have problems with a small donation every now and then, how can a pay to play be expected? Unless they were just lying, of course.


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My initial reaction, like several others, is Skepticism. For a lot of reasons (one being that I have Geryon's post open in another tab, and not entirely read yet).


This sounds like a massive, expensive project, that the ENTIRE team has been ridiculously tight-lipped on. While that's perfectly understandable, and in fact commendable, I'm not sure if I have the confidence in human nature for this to have remained so perfectly under wraps for so long (especially considering what I've heard about before release in the past).


However, I'd love to be proven wrong.


Paying for it? Meh. I'll either find a way to do so, or I won't.


But at least as long as NWN and Layonara are around together, you can bet that I will be, too.


Edit. Though the odds on that bet fluctuate with the more drama floating around (or steaming in piles, to be more accurate).


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AeridiniteCorathiteDruidRofireinite
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*Remembers who's sandbox he has been playing in for the last year ... is grateful for Layo no matter what eventualities the future may hold*


As Darkwulf said, it's a game! Have fun!


orth's picture
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Stephen_Zuckerman wrote:
My initial reaction, like several others, is Skepticism. For a lot of reasons (one being that I have Geryon's post open in another tab, and not entirely read yet).


This sounds like a massive, expensive project, that the ENTIRE team has been ridiculously tight-lipped on. While that's perfectly understandable, and in fact commendable, I'm not sure if I have the confidence in human nature for this to have remained so perfectly under wraps for so long (especially considering what I've heard about before release in the past).


However, I'd love to be proven wrong.


Nondisclosure agreements are serious legal stuff. And not sure what you think about ENTIRE team, only the board and a few trusted individuals knew for a long time. Only recently have we began taking new members.


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FolianiteToranite
Joined: Jul 8 2005

Quote:
Yes, Windows, Linux and Mac


That is quite a undertaking unless you are going to some portable language like Java.


I applaud you for taking on this enterprise. A start up is a difficult and scary endeavor but it is also fun and rewarding. I wish you all the best of luck and will help in anyway that I can. I look forward to the new game and a new fresh start in a world that we all enjoy deeply.


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Dont ever mention java again. Its evil, and it be OpenGL based, which is multiplatform Jrizz


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FolianiteToranite
Joined: Jul 8 2005

there is a Java wrapper for openGL :)


Ah but that makes me think *grins* about openGL ES! Can you say Layo on mobile phones *grins more*


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CorathiteIlsarian
Joined: Oct 24 2004

Go for it guys! I've like what you've done and am keen to see what else you've got.


Best of luck!

Polak76


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Voraxian
Joined: Apr 20 2005

I'm excited too. I think this is great and I welcome the change. The best part of this game is the creativity of the people who are here. The DnD rules and the NWN game engine are limitations in my opinion, but that's what we've had to work with and even though I have been caught up at times with pushing the engine (mostly out of curiosity sake) the best times have always been accomplishing something....good RP, in game tasks, or DM tasks. My favorite memory of Layonara to date was an impromptu quest that Rhizome ran on Dorax and a few other characters. We got caught by Fisty's Avatar trying to mine Addy on Firesteep and about 7 hours later (heh, probably should have been a couple of sessions, but we were having fun and didn't want to stop) we changed where one of the Dragons dwelled......it was awesome. The creativity and teamwork displayed that day was really something. From what I read and what I know about Leanthar and his team I believe these changes will allow more of what I love about this game. Bring it on! :)

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