Ask the Loremaster: Cosmology

50 posts / 0 new
Last post
EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004
Ask the Loremaster: Cosmology

Please post any questions on the new cosmology here. I will make this a running thread and update questions/answers.

1) considering how much shadow has been dealt with, including one of our World Leaders, an entire branch of the the Bloodstone plot quests, a complete shadow language, and the shadow dancer class in general, can you please fill us in on where Shadow fits in to the new Cosmology?

Shadows come from a lower/lowest energy world (so the low frequency worlds, see Mortal Coil description). Hence why their touch drains energy from creatures from a higher energy world. Their opposites are the Radiances from higher frequency worlds.

The shadow language is actually the language of the Lumbral, which those who went on that plot series received. So a more proper name would be the Lumbral language.

The shadowdancer does not travel to other lower frequencies when hiding in shadow, they're just very adept at using darkness and light. The summon shadow is something like summoning (so magic) and we're stuck with the D&D way of doing things there for NWN. The new planes structure was not made to accommodate all D&D specifics of course, as we're moving away. Some things will fit, others will not.

2) On the time section, does that mean that time passes more slowly for the negative energy realms than for the positive energy realms or is the frequency you're talking about there something different than the frequency of the realm itself?

The former.

3) How does Greater Sanctuary work now, as in D&D you walk the ethereal plane?

This is one of the things the new cosmology and D&D differ greatly as there is no ethereal plane. You can consider it as some kind of better invisibility, you not walking another frequency for example.

vgn
vgn's picture
Offline
Joined: Oct 12 2004

First, thanks Ed for that great preview.

Second, considering how much shadow has been dealt with, including one of our World Leaders, an entire branch of the the Bloodstone plot quests, a complete shadow language, and the shadow dancer class in general, can you please fill us in on where Shadow fits in to the new Cosmology?

Thank you.

Thanks from:
Skywatcher's picture
Offline
Toranite
Joined: Jan 8 2007

On the time section, does that mean that time passes more slowly for the negative energy realms than for the positive energy realms or is the frequency you're talking about there something different than the frequency of the realm itself?


Thanks from:
Lord of the Forest's picture
Offline
Folianite
Joined: Feb 6 2005

I don't know in how far it is covered but how actually works Greater Sanctuary now? NWN one kinda lets you walk on the ethereal plane. How about it in the new cosmology?


Thanks from:
EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

Updated


Stephen_Zuckerman's picture
Offline
Aeridinite
Joined: Oct 1 2005

Where does the Plane of the Lost fit into the new Cosmology?


Offline
Layonara AdministratorDruidFolianiteGamemasterLucinditeWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Oct 1 2004

That's kind of a tricky one to answer. Ed might correct/confirm this, but at least in terms of seeking to bargain for a soul of someone who has died permanently, I think the best analog would be the place where the Binding and the Sheet meet, as this is the domain of the Harvester.


Thanks from:
EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

Correct Dorg.


Pseudonym's picture
Offline
AeridiniteCorathiteDruidRofireinite
Joined: Jun 9 2006

Question:- How much of this is common IC knowledge? Is the information in the link provided above all OOC or is such information deemed readily accessible? Known just to church folks or to Mr & Mrs Lvl 1 Adventurer as well? Accessible with a bit of digging? Accessible with a lot of digging?


Cheers


EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

How much of this is common IC knowledge?

Not much, especially to those of a non-wizard/non-scholar background. After all, people start as lvl 1, not as super wizards/scholars.

Is the information in the link provided above all OOC or is such information deemed readily accessible?

Most is OOC, to explain the planar structure we're using that's not DnD. That was the main reason for posting. It is most certainly not readily accessible.
Nobody PC or NPC knows about The Sovereign, nobody has ever traveled to the Heavens so would know about traveling there or how that works. (Apart from maybe an NPC or two which shall remain nameless ;)

Known just to church folks or to Mr & Mrs Lvl 1 Adventurer as well?

As mentioned most certainly not to Mr & Mrs Lvl 1 Adventurer. Some information about the Pits would be in some churches (but not for example, Prunilla's as that'd make no sense. Lucinda's would know things). And even there, not all all scholars of the Pits of course.
The frequency stuff and how that works is also something that hardly anyone knowns or understands.

Just like in the real world not every person knows about quantum physics for example. Or would know how to do brain surgery. It's very very specific knowledge and only a few would have it.
And as knowledge is power, few would share.

So basically if this wasn't told to your character, he wouldn't know.

Accessible with a bit of digging?
Some of it

Accessible with a lot of digging?
Some of it

PS my actual complete Cosmology document is larger, hehe ;)

Thanks from:
lonnarin's picture
Offline
GamemasterXeenitePrunillianDruidDoranditeToranite
Joined: Oct 8 2004

OK, huge pesky laundry-list of questions for you, Ed!


What will the goals/numbers of the denizens there be? Are they mostly powerful souls who resisted the Thread's attempts to reabsorb them, or more like an alien species that are native to the plane? Is it a fully realized extra-dimension with its own cosmos and worlds, or more like a bubble/pocket dimension parallel along the Threaded Path? What happens to a soul when the fiends steal it along the path? Eaten or twisted into members of the dark army?


Do the Pits of Endless Strife tie into the magical effects of necromancy's soul displacement? I could see perhaps a soul being taken from a wizard and being traded for an immortal dark energy equivalent to sustain their consciousness into lichdom. Since their "soul" was already taken away from the path, they wouldn't fear being reabsorbed after a natural death. Do undead animation effects tap into this sort of dark energy, or is that from a separate plane of existence altogether? (I know we don't have "shadow" anymore, is it the "Lumbral" now?)


Thanks from:
Ravemore's picture
Offline
CorathiteToranite
Joined: Jun 2 2006

Ed, thanks for your earlier response. I was just curious why we are not using a language ear for the pits? I'm assuming they are populated by intelligent and nasty creatures who use verbal communication, and as a pure wizard working into higher levels, it is something that does interest me. Were we unable to change the name of the current "infernal" ear to another name, or was it a decision on the development side?


I love the work on this by the way... so cool.


Offline
Layonara AdministratorDruidFolianiteGamemasterLucinditeWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Oct 1 2004

Ravemore wrote:
Were we unable to change the name of the current "infernal" ear to another name, or was it a decision on the development side?


This was not a development decision but rather a lore one, due to our shifting from a D&D-style planar structure to one of our own making. Remember also that there is an Abyssal language. "Infernal" and "Abyssal" languages have an implication of "devils" and "demons". While people are free to call dwellers of the Pits anything they wish (for instance, "demon" might be a catch-all term for something wicked, evil and totally alien to the Mortal Coil), we do not actually have "devils" and "demons" as D&D has defined them. Pit Dwellers are as varied as the Pits themselves, possibly moreso. The Pits are not necessarily "hellish", as has been stated,


More than a passing knowledge of the Pits (beyond their existence) is likely not a common thing (subject to Ed agreeing with me), even among the wizarding set. Travel to the Pits is even more rare, difficult and potentially dangerous (and impossible without GM help).


So anyway, as the Pits aren't dominated by "devils" and "demons", there isn't any sort of "Infernal" and "Abyssal" languages of those dominant species of creatures that would be prevalent throughout. Of course that begs the question as to what residents of the Pits speak, and as that answer has not yet been determined.


Thanks from:
Ravemore's picture
Offline
CorathiteToranite
Joined: Jun 2 2006

Cool... makes perfect sense. I guess I'll wait for that determination on language and cross my fingers it is favorable for IC exploration at a later date...


Online
LucinditeMistiteGamemasterWriting Team Member
Joined: Jul 2 2005

Besides, when you think about it - anyone who did any plane-traveling before the new cosmology was put in was assumed to have been pit-traveling. So, you know... sure, you went to the Abyss, that's great...but what was once a huge deal (warranting the abyssal ear vs infernal for Baator), is now just one in a million millions of Pits. Even if you kept the literal infernal ear and pointed to grandfathering, with the absorption of those places into a much denser location makes it outnumbered and useless. No demons or devil distinctions to communicate with, just some ultra-specific stuff no one's ever going to run.


I'd kind of like to see them combined into a sort of Pit-Common instead... that way someone having it could still have some kind of use, its level of difficulty (or % known) can be set to whatever, and individual GMs can decide if their pit creature is at all skilled in it...since most would probably be rough and trade-speakish poor with it. Could be fun... not that useful, but better than 2 individual tongues in a place that has who knows how many. Maybe that "demon" knows just enough Pit-Common to tell you to pike off.


Alternatively, maybe we could take that whole merger and split it into 4 variations based on the elemental planes the pit is closest to. Dunno. Having crude combinations from different places are always fun, and now we get to start all over with slang.


Thanks from:
lonnarin's picture
Offline
GamemasterXeenitePrunillianDruidDoranditeToranite
Joined: Oct 8 2004

Since the fiends steal souls being pulled along the threaded path, wouldn't that just make them twisted souls themselves? Kind of like a Dante's Inferno fiend vs. an alien dimension WoW Burning Legion type? In that case, wouldn't they just speak what they did in life?


Eorendil's picture
Offline
Rofireinite
Joined: Mar 12 2006

Well, except, (I'm assuming) for the fact that with all the frequencies you still have a nearly infinite possibility to the number of worlds, creatures, peoples and languages possible and the pits aren't just pulling souls from Layonara... basically... I think.. *winkles nose*


EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

Quote:

What will the goals/numbers of the denizens there be?

That depends on the denizen in question. As there are an endless number of Pits (in theory) there will be just as many goals.

Quote:
Are they mostly powerful souls who resisted the Thread's attempts to reabsorb them, or more like an alien species that are native to the plane?

Denizens are not souls without a body. They're creatures, and you'll find humans, elves, dwarves, orcs, Balmati, and so on throughout the Pits.

Quote:
Is it a fully realized extra-dimension with its own cosmos and worlds, or more like a bubble/pocket dimension parallel along the Threaded Path?

I believe I explained what a Pit is in the new Cosmology text. It's a finite "area/bubble/pocket" with particular characteristics. E.g. there will be desert-like Pits, Pits that look like seas, Pits that are a seemingly endless plain, or Pits that look like a small island. Anything is possible.
Threaded Path is a term you invented I think and not a term I'd use.

Quote:
What happens to a soul when the fiends steal it along the path? Eaten or twisted into members of the dark army?
It can be eaten, harvested for power, kept as a pet.

Quote:
Do the Pits of Endless Strife tie into the magical effects of necromancy's soul displacement?
Not sure what you mean by necromantic soul displacement, the Pits have Al'Noth just like the rest of the cosmos.

Quote:
Do undead animation effects tap into this sort of dark energy, or is that from a separate plane of existence altogether?
Animation of the dead is done via the Al'Noth, not something different.

Quote:
More than a passing knowledge of the Pits (beyond their existence) is likely not a common thing (subject to Ed agreeing with me), even among the wizarding set.
Agreed.

Quote:
with all the frequencies you still have a nearly infinite possibility to the number of worlds, creatures, peoples and languages possible
Correct :) that was the intent.

Quote:
and the pits aren't just pulling souls from Layonara... basically... I think..

Just for total correctness. The Pits do not pull souls, the Thread is what pulls. Creatures in the Pits can try to intercept/capture these souls.
These souls come from all worlds in the Mortal Coil, so not just Layonara.

And for completeness sake, with the various frequencies, it also means that there are Pits of other frequencies.

Eorendil's picture
Offline
Rofireinite
Joined: Mar 12 2006

Thanks for the correction.. I meant Thread. :)


lonnarin's picture
Offline
GamemasterXeenitePrunillianDruidDoranditeToranite
Joined: Oct 8 2004

Ahhh, it makes a bit more sense looking at the graphical chart. I had this picture in my minds of some kind of rainbow road DragonBall Z thread that went through all the dimensions, but it looks more like the center of a wheel.

Few more quick questions.

What's a Balmati?

Do all gods dwell in the heavens, or do some of the more demented ones like Corath set up shop in the Pits of Endless Strife?

EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

Quote:
Do all gods dwell in the heavens, or do some of the more demented ones like Corath set up shop in the Pits of Endless Strife?

No gods are in the Pits, see: LORE: Layonaran Cosmology

As for Balmati, ask Fenrir ;)

Thanks from:
Offline
Joined: Jan 14 2009

EdTheKet wrote:

(Souls) can be eaten, harvested for power, kept as a pet.

What is the functional difference between "eating" a soul and "harvesting" it for power?

Is an "eaten" soul actually destroyed or does it simply lie around in the stomach of the eater giving it power?

Do the characteristics of a soul affect the eater (i.e. does "you are what you eat" apply)?

How are Souls detected? (There is no related spell presently in Layonara - is that merely a mechanical issue?)

How are Souls captured? (ditto)

How are Souls eaten? Does one have to be a particular race?

Do Souls have the ability to fight? Retain use of spells, etc?

Is the Death Void part of the cosmology, or just an engine artifact?

If the Pits are populated with mortal races, what is the difference between Layonara and just another Pit? Or is there one?

(that's enough questions for one session - don't worry, I have more. :D)

Offline
Layonara AdministratorDruidFolianiteGamemasterLucinditeWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Oct 1 2004

SteveMaurer wrote:
What is the functional difference between "eating" a soul and "harvesting" it for power?

Is an "eaten" soul actually destroyed or does it simply lie around in the stomach of the eater giving it power?

Do the characteristics of a soul affect the eater (i.e. does "you are what you eat" apply)?

How are Souls detected? (There is no related spell presently in Layonara - is that merely a mechanical issue?)

How are Souls captured? (ditto)

How are Souls eaten? Does one have to be a particular race?

I think the answers to these would depend greatly on the creature(s) that are consumers of souls, whether they "eat" them for food or harvest them for power, and of course the nature of a "soul". Since there's no way we could hope to catalog all possible creatures, there's really no way to give a single answer.

The most well-known analog I can give on the harvesting aspect is to look at the common example of "demons" and how the more powerful demons have captured and absorbed a large number of souls, whether through hostile action or some sort of bargain (i.e. "sell one's soul for something"). Given the infinite array of Pits and possibilities for creatures within them, this particular mechanism is likely only one of many.

It's important to note that not all denizens of the Pits consume, or are capable of consuming, souls.

Quote:
Do Souls have the ability to fight? Retain use of spells, etc?

Doubtful.

Quote:
Is the Death Void part of the cosmology, or just an engine artifact?
Mostly an engine artifact and a rather necessary one at that. However, if the bindstones were not in effect, a soul would be pulled toward the Binding Void. This interval could be interpreted as time spent in the "Death Void", though no such place actually exists.

Quote:
If the Pits are populated with mortal races, what is the difference between Layonara and just another Pit? Or is there one?
Define "mortal race"...heh. It would be an inaccurate assumption that all Pit Dwellers are mortal.

As for the difference between Layonara and just another Pit, well...there's many. Layonara is a planet within a solar system (no, do not ask for a solar system diagram...it's just not happening at this time), that is part of a galaxy somewhere among countless other galaxies in a grand, infinite universe known as the Mortal Coil. Despite the depiction, the universe is not tube-shaped or spiral-shaped, though in whatever Nth-dimensional, string theory mapping causes the various realities of the Cosmology to make visual sense, the Mortal Coil to spiral around the Binding and such.

Regardless, the Mortal Coil is what we, as residents of Earth, would think of as the known universe, with consistent (if sometimes weird) physical laws, an infinite (as far as we know) expanse in every direction, stars, planets, orbits, etc. The Mortal Coil also has magic, which messes with the above sometimes, but hey, it's home! ;)

The Pits, by contrast, are each their own self-contained environment, some likely look rather mundane, while others are probably strange beyond description. There may be infinite (or infinite-seeming) plains of wildflowers as far as the eye can see with warm gentle breezes, singing birds and such. Others may have floating "islands" of rock in a foggy atmosphere. Others may twist back around themselves, some may not have any land at all, some may be water from end-to-end without a bubble of air. Pits do not orbit stars. Pits are finite. Pits are not really "worlds". Some are small, some are many times larger than Layonara.

There are significant barriers to cross in order to travel between the Mortal Coil and any one of the Pits. It is also quite difficult to travel between worlds within the Mortal Coil, though not quite as difficult as travel to/from the Pits. By contrast, traveling between pits may be just as simple as walking through the boundary between them. Pit masters can, however, control who may pass.

Again though, it's worth reiterating that IC knowledge of the above is severely limited among most on Layonara, even among the wizarding set. Generic knowledge of the Pits and the factors involved with travel (or summoning) between the Pits and the Mortal Coil...these things would be probably known to most Wizards over a certain level. Details of the Pits themselves, who and what lives there, the nature of the Pit masters, how and why they do what they do and so forth would only be available to those who have dedicated themselves to studying them (read: NPCs).

Among the non-academic/non-wizard set (i.e. 99.99999% of the population), the word "Pits" is probably used a lot like "hells", since that's a common mythological perception in the absence of any direct evidence or knowledge, and in fact, some may look like "Hell" and be populated by "demons" and "devils". ;)

EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

The only thing I have to add here is to this:

Quote:
Do Souls have the ability to fight? Retain use of spells, etc?


They do not have the ability to fight, nor do they retain spells, prayers, or items. All they can do is try to evade capture.


Shiokara's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteVoraxian
Joined: Apr 6 2009

I have some questions regarding the undead and their relation to the cosmology of Layonara. It has already been stated that undead are created with the Al'noth, not from any darker energy, but what is their place exactly?

When the undead is reanimated with the Al'noth is it only the al'noth used in its reanimation or is something, say a soul or idea of a thing, affixed to it?

If it is the first, then the undead are, in a sense, natural beings within Layonara's cosmology. This is because the idea of the undead, their potential, is able to be pulled from the All and Nothing and materialized into the mortal coil in the form of the undead (just like players and everything else as I understand it). It is suggested that the Mother may even have a hand in this as she seems to be the one that draws from, or interacts with, the All and Nothing.

The second is what I consider to be the more unnatural explanation--that the al'noth is used to affix something to the corpse in order to reanimate it. Let us reuse the idea of the soul, or idea of a thing, but one that has not yet reached the Thread to be recirculated to the All and Nothing. In this case Al'noth would be used to pull the soul backward, offsetting the natural pull of the Thread. In my mind this creates a much darker feel to the undead as they become tortured, suffering beings who feel the pull to the Thread, but exist on the Mortal Coil, unable to satisfy that pull due to some weaving of the al'noth--their natural progression has been ripped from them, and it is out of their hands.

This also raises questions about the Gods in the Heavens. In the first case, if the undead are created out of the All and Nothing, then it would appear that the 'good' Gods like Aeridin, Toran, and Vorax among others (and the teachings of Druids) would just be proposing the eradication of the undead because they seem unnatural to the mortal races on the Coil, even though the undead are actually just created the same way as everything else. This is, of course, entirely possible as those on the mortal coil, and even the Gods in the Heavens, barely understand anything about the Mother, and probably even less about the existence of the All and Nothing.

Under the second explanation things are a little different. The Gods who advocate the eradication of undead seem more merciful because in this case the undead really are unnatural and are suffering. Since they are affixed to the Mortal Coil, adventurers really are doing good when they kill them and allow them to return back to the Thread and the All and Nothing to be reused in some way when the time comes. One might even say that the reason the Gods advocate the eradication of the undead is because they have some relation to the Mother--perhaps she allows them certain privileges, such as the ability to call souls who worship them to The Heavens instead of having them fall to the Mother like the souls who don't worship deities do.

It has already been suggested that the deities have some deal with the Mother, it is not too far fetched that this might be one of the conditions.

On the other hand, let us look at a God like Corath, who advocates the undead and corruption. It states on lore that he believes his followers to be the elite of Layonara, so it is not too hard to imagine that he might think himself the elite among the Gods, perhaps he is even battling against the natural pull of the universe by advocating for the creation of undead as a means to show his power over what the Mother, or whatever power at be, seems to have set up. This makes his corruption far greater than just some corruption on the Mortal Coil, and instead makes it seam as though he is trying to gain a position higher than a deity. Where other Gods may strike a deal with the Mother so that they can call their fallen to them, perhaps Corath uses some means of force to rip his fallen back to him, away from the Thread's pull.

Thank you for reading this. I hope you found it interesting, and if not, thank you for enduring. ^^

EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

You've clearly given this some thought and also what consequences potential answers would give. I like that :)

To answer your question:

Quote:
When the undead is reanimated with the Al'noth is it only the al'noth used in its reanimation or is something, say a soul or idea of a thing, affixed to it?

The process of reanimating something that is dead uses only the Al'Noth. No souls or ideas are affixed to the reanimated creature.

Quote:
If it is the first, then the undead are, in a sense, natural beings within Layonara's cosmology.

That entirely depends on what you consider natural of course.
If you consider that everything that lives must die to be natural, and that once a creature dies it is returned to the Great Cycle/Nature/Circle of Life then bringing something back to a sort of pseudo-life (aka unliving aka undead) is by no means natural, it is interfering with what would have happened with the remains.
After all, if no magic was applied to the remains they would have decayed, make their way into plant life and back into the food chain and back into living things.
Applying magic and animating remains to create unliving is therefore unnatural according to this thinking.

You can of course argue that because the Al'Noth is there, it is a force of nature, so using it is natural. You can also argue this for forging weapons, making china, and nuclear fission (to name a few :) ). All of these, while using natural processes, are not considered natural by most.

Quote:
The second is what I consider to be the more unnatural explanation--that the al'noth is used to affix something to the corpse in order to reanimate it. Let us reuse the idea of the soul, or idea of a thing, but one that has not yet reached the Thread to be recirculated to the All and Nothing. In this case Al'noth would be used to pull the soul backward, offsetting the natural pull of the Thread. In my mind this creates a much darker feel to the undead as they become tortured, suffering beings who feel the pull to the Thread, but exist on the Mortal Coil, unable to satisfy that pull due to some weaving of the al'noth--their natural progression has been ripped from them, and it is out of their hands.

While we could have gone this way, this would have meant that undead/unliving will have a soul attached to them. By our current definitions of animated dead (like zombies, skeletons, ghouls, mummies) they have no souls so that would not have worked in our setting.
Again, it could've been a viable way of defining undead, but it wouldn't fit with other established concepts that we have.

Quote:
This also raises questions about the Gods in the Heavens. In the first case, if the undead are created out of the All and Nothing, then it would appear that the 'good' Gods like Aeridin, Toran, and Vorax among others (and the teachings of Druids) would just be proposing the eradication of the undead because they seem unnatural to the mortal races on the Coil, even though the undead are actually just created the same way as everything else.

Not only do they think the eradication of undead is needed because they seem unnatural, in their books they are unnatural.
And in addition to that, and just as important to good aligned gods is the fact that disturbing somebody's grave and then using that somebody's grandfather's remains to make a zombie of it is considered an evil act.

Quote:
This is, of course, entirely possible as those on the mortal coil, and even the Gods in the Heavens, barely understand anything about the Mother, and probably even less about the existence of the All and Nothing.
Barely understanding anything about the Mother is correct, nobody knows about the All and Nothing (except the Mother of course).

Quote:
n the other hand, let us look at a God like Corath, who advocates the undead and corruption. It states on lore that he believes his followers to be the elite of Layonara, so it is not too hard to imagine that he might think himself the elite among the Gods, perhaps he is even battling against the natural pull of the universe by advocating for the creation of undead as a means to show his power over what the Mother, or whatever power at be, seems to have set up. This makes his corruption far greater than just some corruption on the Mortal Coil, and instead makes it seam as though he is trying to gain a position higher than a deity. Where other Gods may strike a deal with the Mother so that they can call their fallen to them, perhaps Corath uses some means of force to rip his fallen back to him, away from the Thread's pull.

Interesting view on Corath ;) Of course the point about him ripping souls back from the Thread's pull to create undead is incorrect, but your other considerations about him make sense. I'll not go further there though :p

Thanks from:
Offline
Druid
Joined: Oct 5 2004

And what does better invisibility mean? Like you have no scent, do not leave tracks? How can you be "better invisibility"? I mean the only bad things about being invisible are...you still leave tracks, you can still be smelt, no one can see you (hehe), people can see you with see invis/true sight...


So in order to be a "better invisibility", which of the above differ?


Sorry Ed, I try to leave you alone!


Quote:
Please post any questions on the new cosmology here. I will make this a running thread and update questions/answers.


3) How does Greater Sanctuary work now, as in D&D you walk the ethereal plane?


This is one of the things the new cosmology and D&D differ greatly as there is no ethereal plane. You can consider it as some kind of better invisibility, you not walking another frequency for example.


EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

Updated LORE: Greater Sanctuary


and better means it's harder to dispel (e.g. Invisibility Purge doesn't work against it).


Offline
Druid
Joined: Oct 5 2004

Quote:
Updated LORE: Greater Sanctuary


and better means it's harder to dispel (e.g. Invisibility Purge doesn't work against it).


Well not being able to dispell it would make it better...*grins* Thanks Ed.


EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

Quote:
Well not being able to dispell it would make it better...*grins* Thanks Ed.


Not by Invisibility Purge anyway. It's not supposed to be an "I Win" spell and is dispellable (unfortunately not by anything that's coded in NWN I believe, but on GM quests, rest assured).


Aerimor's picture
Offline
ToraniteAngels Guild MemberDruid
Joined: Mar 8 2008

So if I read this correctly, even though you may mechanically run invisible in plate on a horse through the middle of a group of bats, dark elves or PCs in game; reality is that any unstealthy individual moving with G sanct or Invis past creatures with exceptional hearing should be -expected- to be detected?


Offline
Layonara AdministratorDruidFolianiteGamemasterLucinditeWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Oct 1 2004

Maybe not "detected" in such a way that would allow them to target you (though potentially, which would explain the bugginess of both spells ;) ), but perhaps alerted to your presence.


Thanks from:
EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

Quote:
So if I read this correctly, even though you may mechanically run invisible in plate on a horse through the middle of a group of bats, dark elves or PCs in game; reality is that any unstealthy individual moving with G sanct or Invis past creatures with exceptional hearing should be -expected- to be detected?


Indeed, alerted to your presence.


And also, to pass through them you'd need to push them out of the way. You're not able to pass through matter after all, you're "just" invisible.


*then mutters something about NWN mechanics and limits thereof*


Online
LucinditeMistiteGamemasterWriting Team Member
Joined: Jul 2 2005

What else would you call energies drawn from the upper frequencies? Upper energy? High energy? Light magic? Just kind of a wording thing, there.


Quote:
Since D&D cosmology went out the window, and the negative/positive energy with it


miltonyorkcastle's picture
Offline
GamemasterWriting Team Member
Joined: Feb 3 2005

High frequency energy? Low frequency energy, Layonaran energy (I imagine this is just as toxic to a low frequency creature as their energy is to Layonarans), Strife or Pit energy, etc.

And unless I misread something, healing does not come from energy of the higher and lower frequencies. It's straight Al'Noth.

Online
LucinditeMistiteGamemasterWriting Team Member
Joined: Jul 2 2005

It was less an inquiry (people call it all sorts of things) than just meaning that it's still around in different forms, heh.


EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

I moved your post to a more appropriate thread.

Acacea wrote:
What else would you call energies drawn from the upper frequencies? Upper energy? High energy? Light magic? Just kind of a wording thing, there.

Nobody can tap on higher frequencies for their energy without help or guidance, or through very unique and highly powerful situations (e.g. think WLDQ events. In any event, creatures from lower frequency realities are at the moment called shadows, and those from higher frequencies radiances. I do however, reserve the right to change this nomenclature at any time (or rather, when I'm at the point in my things-to-do-list to flesh this out further).

(Side note: spells like Negative Energy Ray do not in fact, use negative energy, it's "just" a way of using the Al'Noth)

EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

LORE: Layonaran Cosmology has a new map.

Credits to Rasterick for this!

miltonyorkcastle's picture
Offline
GamemasterWriting Team Member
Joined: Feb 3 2005

Dude. Awesome new look. Like the eye of the Soul Mother.


Offline
Rofireinite
Joined: Jan 25 2005

Very cool.


Hellblazer's picture
Offline
Az'attanFolianiteMistitePrunillianToraniteVoraxian
Joined: May 14 2006

Very nice indeed!!!


Script Wrecked's picture
Offline
RofireiniteVoraxian
Joined: Feb 17 2007

Nice graphic.


However, the text is barely legible against the background, and although it is giving a sense of scale of the All And Nothing, the actual informational part of the graphic (everything within "the Sovereign") is a small proportion of the whole picture.


Regards,


Script Wrecked.


EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

Yeah, I've got a huge high res file, but that's 6BM so would make the page load slow, so settled for the smaller 800x600 for now.


Pibemanden's picture
Offline
LucinditeXeeniteRofireinite
Joined: Jun 27 2005

Can't it just be made like the continent maps, where you can click the image for a higher resolution?


Thanks from:
EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

Pibemanden wrote:
Can't it just be made like the continent maps, where you can click the image for a higher resolution?


I'm sure it can, and I shall check with those more tech-savvy than I am.


*looks for milt*


miltonyorkcastle's picture
Offline
GamemasterWriting Team Member
Joined: Feb 3 2005

Poked ya in the LORE forums.


ycleption's picture
Offline
DruidGrannochianMistite
Joined: Dec 28 2006

Clickable higher-resolution thingy done.

Warning, its really big though :)


Ravemore's picture
Offline
CorathiteToranite
Joined: Jun 2 2006

I may have missed it, and if so please feel free to point it out. I have a couple of questions relevant to my character's current development:


Do the denizens of The Pits have personal "souls" of their own? For example, a Succubus, Balor, or any of the other commonly known demons/devils?


If their body is destroyed on Layonara do they have the same death experience as a mortal which is described in the new LORE?


Is there any difference if their body is destroyed on Layonara or their own native Pit?


Thanks from:
EdTheKet's picture
Offline
AeridiniteArageniteAz'attanBeryliteBranderbackianCorathiteDoranditeFolianiteGamemasterGrannochianIlsarianKatianKithairieniteLucinditeMistitePrunillianRofireiniteShadoniteToraniteVoraxianWriting Team MemberXeenite
Joined: Jan 15 2004

Do the denizens of The Pits have personal "souls" of their own?

They do, after all "Each living creature has a soul and this soul occupies the body. When a creature dies, the soul leaves the body."


For example, a Succubus, Balor, or any of the other commonly known demons/devils?

Well, the demons and devils distinction comes from D&D, we no longer have that.


If their body is destroyed on Layonara do they have the same death experience as a mortal which is described in the new LORE?

They do.


Is there any difference if their body is destroyed on Layonara or their own native Pit?

If they die in their Pit (or if somebody from Layonara proper dies in a Pit), their Soul would still go to the Plane of the Lost first.


Ravemore's picture
Offline
CorathiteToranite
Joined: Jun 2 2006

Thanks Ed... That helped out a lot. :)


Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or register to post comments