A question regarding the Goblin race

[Shiokara]

This is something I've been wondering about for a while now, and on doing a quick "Ask the Loremaster" search I couldn't find a thread where it had been asked before, but when I read the LORE page on goblins, I am always surprised that they cannot be submitted with Lawful Evil alignments.

Here are some quotes I find relevant to why a good portion of goblins should actually be considered LE:

The force that all goblins, with the exception of the few farmer tribes, respect most is terror. Any goblin that wishes to gain power over others knows that he must terrorize or exterminate all of his opposition. While this is sometimes achieved by a strong goblin relying on brute force, more often the most cunning and clever goblin succeeds. Despite the prejudices of other races, goblins recognize that brains are more important than muscle; they seek to be crafty and sly.

Amongst their own kind, goblins are always very aware of social status, and are constantly scheming to remove, weaken, or just embarrass their opponents. What others consider insignificant actions may be grievous insults to the goblins; brawls and death are often the result of a social faux pas.

Goblins who have come to dwell among other races will try desperately to understand their social customs, and rely on innate cunning to survive – and perhaps even thrive – in their new surroundings.

The harsh upbringing of a goblin hero hardens him, as well as engendering his natural racial slyness.

Goblins are crafty, sly, and and described as "constantly scheming to remove, weaken, or just embarrass their opponents", likely in order to gain power by means of terror or extermination. This is because their governmental system is a communist system where power is decided on which goblin is most terrible, except this goblin cannot be socially terrible because "brawls and death are often the result of a social faux pas". It seems that any race so attuned to societal norms, and who enforces them with brutal consequences, should be considered lawful.

Also, Communism, as it is presented here, is suggested to be a form of government (and economics), and not a particularly chaotic one.

The final point I want to make is that Goblins, being so disliked, "try desperately to understand [other races'] social customs", which suggests that in a society where people are law abiding, so too would the goblin living in this community. Indeed, it seems that goblins in such areas would have to rely on laws in order to not be killed on the spot. Chaos isn't good for a goblin living in a community not his own, which some goblins, prized for their slyness, should recognize.

So I was just wondering why goblins who aren't magic users must be submitted as chaotic? It's possible I'm emphasizing the wrong points here. I'll very much accept the argument that goblins don't really practice a form of order because they're constantly trying to undermine one another in order to gain absolute power, or that terror is not a legitimate basis for order, but I just needed to ask this because it's been on my brain for a while now.

[EdTheKet]

Well, basically it's from the time where we didn't allow evil.

To differentiate the monstrous races from the more standard ones, we gave nearly all of them the must-be chaotic requirement (think half-giants, half-ogres, half orc).
This because we did not want a bunch of goody-goody goblins/orcs/half-orcs/half-ogres/half-giants running around which would give the impression these races aren't all that evil.

This policy was changed when we allowed evil and in fact all monstrous races (Dark Elf, Half Orc, Half Giant, Half Ogre, Orc, Goblin, and Deep Dwarf) must start out as CN, TN, NE, or LE, (some of these races have additional restrictions).

So, checking LORE, it seems that this had not made it to the Goblin page on LORE, so in fact goblin PCs can be CN, TN, NE or LE already!

Thanks for bringing this up!

[lonnarin]

Do TN, NE and LE goblins still have to be spellcasters?