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Author Topic: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?  (Read 609 times)

Riven

Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« on: January 31, 2008, 11:43:22 am »
Hello!
I'd like to hear a definitive ruling on whether animal companions are allowed in cities, as my character travels with an animal companion, and I've heard different things from different players.

It seems reasonable to me that a Ranger or Druid can keep their animal companion "heeled" and obviously appearing to be following his orders and not acting threatening to anyone.

I witnessed a DM (Auroborus) rule this way, and it made sense. However I'd like an official ruling here, so I have an answer to any player who challenges the presence of an animal companion in the city.

Thanks for all your endeavors to make this an awesome site!
 

Weeblie

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2008, 11:48:29 am »
I think this largely depends on what city you are in, and what sort of animal companion we are talking about here. While some "rough" cities/towns would allow almost everything, and especially those that are already very closely linked to a forest, an orderly fashioned city like Hempstead would disallow most bigger animals.

For example... While pixies and ravens would be allowed (not really ranger/druid companions, though), it's rather probable that wolves and tigers would be killed on sight if found inside the city walls. Whether they are summoned ones (like companions or familiars) is highly irrelevant and instead, the core question is: "Would they be allowed in the city if they were just like normal animals?"
 

ycleption

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2008, 11:53:25 am »
Quote from: Leanthar
I suppose it is okay to go around town polymorphed and/or with pets. Though personally I think it is bad RP in certain towns/cities in some cases (undead, trolls etc.) but to each their own.


From this thread: http://forums.layonara.com/layonara-server-rules/91937-polymorphed-town-buy-crafting.html

On Hempstead specifically:
Quote from: Leanthar

 //Do not shape shift in this town unless you wish to pay the penalty, and that penality can and will change over time and due to circumstances. Do not bring in your wildlife pets in to this town.


On Vehl:
Quote from: Leanthar

 //Evil characters, those that like to drag their pets in to towns, and shapeshifting sorts can travel this town but even the guards and nobles in this town have their patience and their tolerance levels so keep that in mind. If you want to perform your "evil" or shapeshift theatrics this is the town to do it in, but be prepared to face the consequence if it gets out of hand. I.E. use common sense and always remember that the nobility have a city (a large city) to run and they will only allow so much. Please don't whine if you go over the line and the guards come after you. And be aware that the penalties in this town are quite often brutal. In some cases the "good" may be chased out of this town though that is not overly likely, but I can see it happening from time to time so keep that in mind.


From here:
http://forums.layonara.com/layonara-server/114954-port-hempstead-fort-vehl-starting-towns-attitudes.html
 

darkstorme

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 11:58:51 am »
Ouroboros, thank you very much! ;)

And my ruling in that particular case was that summons, being less under a spellcaster's control than familiars/animal companions, would be treated as the animals they are.  A summoned bear would incite panic.

For companions/familiars, I would err on Weeblie's side.  If they're big and/or scary, consider leaving them tucked away/outside the gates, at least of cities like Hempstead or Leringard.  The Guard would probably allow familiars/companions to enter the city if permission to do so was secured first - but knowing is half the battle.

An animal is, in the hands of a druid or a ranger, potentially a lethal weapon.  And the Guard has things to say about lethal weapons in the city, too. :)
 

aragwen

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 12:16:20 pm »
I always believed that animal companions should be left outside of large towns. My reasoning for this is two-fold.
 
 1) Even though you as a ranger/druid might oddly want to be in the city, your animal companion would surely prefer the woods. Would you "force" your friend into the city which he would not like to be in?
 
 2) The large cities, let us take Hempstead for example is buzzing with people, including kids, going about their own business. So even though you dont see a single person in the game around you, you have to RP that there are many merchants selling their wares, kids running around and so forth in the area with the fountains. Now how would kids react to seeing a large bear prowl around in the city. It would cause chaos, people running around screaming and guards running closer to see what is happening.
 
 So I always expect animal companions to be outside cities and not standing around them.
 
 This is a very similiar situation to druids shapeshifting in towns as well.
 

lonnarin

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 02:53:07 pm »
I love it when a Voraxian walks into town with a summoned dwarven warrior in tow, and somebody shrieks, "get that summons out of here!".  You see a dwarf.  You smell a dwarf.  The dwarf looks at you and waves, says "aye laddy".  Wooot, Meta-police!

So aye, common sense here, in both what you bring or what you react to.  Seeing a guy with a bird hopping around by his side or a dog in tow isn't going to make the townguard sprint to the rescue, pidgeons aren't his duty.  A shapeshifter stomping around town in bear form or riding a dire animal however amounts to pretty much an eco-terrorist spreading panic in the streets.  A pixie might raise a few brows but can easily be dismissed as a cute little girl with wings, while a shadow companion or zombie is most assuredly a sign of impending plague.
 

Riven

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 03:53:16 pm »
Thanks all, for the clear and reasonable assessment!
I will play accordingly.
;)
 

Kenderfriend

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2008, 12:10:38 pm »
I think that Animal Companions should be allowed in town. I am really fed up of the number of people saying you're not allowed them in the city.:mad:
They don't seem to understand how much my animal means to me, and they let horses and oxes in don't they? And i know you are probably thinking 'But thats not the same'. Well, it is. My character, Keppli, has been brought up with her animal friend so he is hardly going to hurt anyone. He isn't just any wild animal...
If they weren't would it not say on the sign of LAWS outside Hemp? It says Half-giants, half-orcs, dark elves, goblins etc. But it doesn't say wolves does it? Being a ranger, my wolf Lythar my only friend, as Keppli does not have any family, it hardly seems fair.

Anyways, my solution to this unfairness is to do an alignment check. If the person going in to Hemp is good, then the animal companion may also go in. If they are evil, then they must leave it outside.

I know you rangers out there will know what i mean. And if they continue to say to leave my wolf outside, the perhaps Vehl will be more friendly.
 

Lynn1020

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2008, 12:14:55 pm »
I play a ranger as well.  I would not want to take my panther Cane into the cities where he would be in danger and frightened.  Seems the animals would prefer to stay outside of the gates while you do what you need in the town.  

How can you tell if a person is "good" person by just looking at them?  Do you watch and wait to see if their huge wolf attacks you?
 

Acacea

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2008, 12:34:19 pm »
Like Lynn said, you can't "see" alignment, nor does the alignment of a ranger have anything to do with the fact that the larger animals are going to have difficulties in a city. And if we are going to bring IC reasons in for bringing them in cities (he's my best friend!) we should also take into account that they generally do not want in cities. Why in the world would any half-decent ranger take a wild animal (friend or not) into a place milling with people, from sailors to merchants hawking wares, to whatever? They don't belong there, and dragging them through the city streets and freaking people out (which in turn freaks said animal out) is hardly the way to treat a "best friend."

If a person is totally out of place without their wild animal companions, it seems like they would not be the kind of person that wants in the middle of crowded civilization anyway. What's so great about the cities of the world that one must drag monsters and animals through them when they don't want in in the first place? It's not just Hempstead, it's all places like that.

As for Vehl being more friendly, you are welcome to try to drag your animals and children through the city - they may or may not let in because who cares, the place is a mess anyway, but that does not mean they (or you, or your children) will be safe.

Frankly, rangers of the sort that don't fit into common society fit better in the outcast city of Vehl, anyway (though the fact that animals don't do well in cities certainly still applies, friendship-wise). Sure, it's a lot of squalor and knives in the back, but people mind their own business or get dead, which means they leave you the heck alone unless they want to make trouble. Safe, no, preferable, perhaps.
 

Rowana

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2008, 01:50:07 pm »
Quite a bit of what has been said above spot on. Alignment checks are pretty OOC and typically would have to be handled by a GM and since we can't be on at all times that makes situations very unfair. ALL CITIES pretty much disallow wild creatures and evil appearing familiars (imps, hellhounds, pseudo-dragons, fairy dragons, even fey creatures in some cases!). They are not understood, they are scary and they cause panic. Certain creatures -are- acceptable, summoned dwarves were given as an example. As long as they aren't vanishing into thin air, there's little reason they'd get a second glance. A monkey, rats, ferrets, bunnies, perhaps even small birds, things that may appear to be strange but harmless are fine.

Please keep in mind there are guard on the walls of nearly every city. Each city in this world has it's own variation of rules, however most have a few things in common. Most cities don't post the rules, because the vast majority of the populace can't read! The guards themselves may not even be able to read, but they are trained and they do know all the rules by heart. They do not want 'wild animals' in the city where their children and elderly are vulnerable. If they wanted that, there would not be walls in the first place. Walls aren't just to keep the trolls, the orc, the goblins and what have you out. Wild animals such as panthers, 8 to 9 foot tall dire wolves etc, are all scary and considered equally dangerous. The populace on the whole are not very understanding or intelligent, quick to jump to conclusions and panic easily (see also: mob mentality). The law faction, in whatever it's form, makes the rules to keep these situation from causing havoc inside the city.

Even if no GM is on to RP the guards at the gates, you cannot assume because they did not stop you that it is alright to walk in with your large, scary animal. It's meta-gaming. The guard would stop you and tell you either it waits or you don't go in. That's the long and the short of it. Druids and rangers can feel it's unfair all they like, but the guard are still not going to change their minds.  
 
 The same applies to familiars, no guard is going to let some mage walk about town with is imp who is obviously from the Pits (see also: They do not understand), nor are they going to let hellhounds in or, especially now what looks like baby dragons. Cities were just partially razed due to so called dragon attacks. Cities in the past have been attacked by daemons (see also: The war with Bloodstone and his various generals). These creatures are the stuff of nightmares to the average peon/farmer/citizen.
 
 Part of the challenge of playing a druid or ranger is the social divide between those who are attuned to nature and those who want to knock it all down and build over the top of it because it scares them. It is proper RP in some cases to feel slighted, it is not proper RP to assume the guard would let you in with that big, scary, uncontrolled monster of a creature you claim is your friend. The same can be said of mages, that 'Al'Noth stuff' is beyond most people's comprehension, even adventurers. The common folk do not understand, they will not understand and this is because they are not like you and they cannot understand. This is a world where adventurers wander, mages *seem* common, druids *seem* common, priests *seem* common but in reality they are a very, very small percentage of the world (very probably less then 10%). Even with the various faiths of the world like Lucindites being so prevalent, your average commoner pays them little heed until a crisis occurs and they need something. Ungrateful for your sacrifices? Probably. No different then all that our real world doctors, teachers, police and other civil servants experience every day.

One more point about those big, scary animals. They aren't tame. They fight along side you and kill for you. They aren't trained.  As a general rule they are wild creatures who have agreed to walk by your side because they find something in you and your understanding of nature that's worth their while. If some child walks up and pulls on their ear, they will retaliate, they may even kill said child. It will happen far too fast for the druid or ranger to stop. The creature will feel pain and they will respond. They won't even necessarily understand that's a 'cub' that they just killed, and as such be remorseless. In other causes, they won't care even if it is understood to be a 'cub.' Law of nature, the fittest/strongest survive. An event like would cause the guard to hunt down and kill your animal companion that you care so much for. As a druid or ranger or mage of at least average intelligence, you would know these things with out having to experience them. Would you want to put your family/friend/companion in that position?  
 
 Part of the expectation GMs have is that players will acknowledge and understand that we have mechanical and OOC limitations. We cannot drop in representation for every man woman and child that is actually in game. The sound affects try to add to the environment, give you background noises of the merchants (that you don't see) hawking their wares, children running around in every town (that you don't see) playing, other people going about their business (that you don't see) in towns, farms etc. Those that work to build the world for you have to count on your imagination and responsibility to make certain you take these things into account and not Meta-game (“Well no guard stopped me so it must be alright.”).
 
 In short, no Animal Companions are not allowed in towns/villages/cities (heck even some farming communities) because they are monstrous, frightening beasts.
 
 ~row
 

miltonyorkcastle

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2008, 01:56:42 pm »
Also remember that while you they can't be visually represented due to lag issues, Hempstead is actually thriving with NPC's that literally fill the squares and streets during the day.

Were any one of those NPCs to be disturbed or frightened by the sight of a hulking wolf roaming the streets, the guard would be sure to inform your character to take your beast outside the city or lock him inside a large cage. If the right NPC (an NPC with clout or influence) were to take issue with the wolf, it might even result in some jail time for the PC.

You have to consider not just the responses of the visually represnted guards, merchants, and PC's, but also those everyday NPCs that roam the city but cannot be visually represented in-game.

EDIT: Also what Row said, heh.
 

Hellblazer

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2008, 11:15:48 am »
I'd just like to point one thing that I think has been missed. An animal companion or familiar has an empathy connection to his owner. If the owner is calm paused and secured, the companion or familiar would sense it and it would certainly have it's effect on it. So if the owner presence calms the animal ( providing the owner is calm himself) then even if a kid ran yelling, it wouldn't take long for the owner (sorry to use that term, as they are not owners but really more symbioses) to calm them.

As for people running in fear, I'm not sure, but if we take history here, there has been rural performers with animals, big or small, throughout the ages. Now we could (by judging of the settings) assume that this is medieval (pre medieval?) times, and performers were quite common, going from city, big or small, to do their shows. Granted most of them were leashed, but people would be somewhat used to it.

Also this being a fantasy world, we have to take into account that the commoners are aware of the rangers, druids, and mages (including sorcerers in there for ease) abilities to connect with their animals. They would most likely be able to recognize a ranger and druid, when they walk into a town> And so would have a certain re assuredness when they see their companions or familiar (for the mage type) with them

Kenderfriend

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2008, 11:41:18 am »
Quote
I'd just like to point one thing that I think has been missed. An animal companion or familiar has an empathy connection to his owner. If the owner is calm paused and secured, the companion or familiar would sense it and it would certainly have it's effect on it. So if the owner presence calms the animal ( providing the owner is calm himself) then even if a kid ran yelling, it wouldn't take long for the owner (sorry to use that term, as they are not owners but really more symbioses) to calm them.

As for people running in fear, I'm not sure, but if we take history here, there has been rural performers with animals, big or small, throughout the ages. Now we could (by judging of the settings) assume that this is medieval (pre medieval?) times, and performers were quite common, going from city, big or small, to do their shows. Granted most of them were leashed, but people would be somewhat used to it.

Also this being a fantasy world, we have to take into account that the commoners are aware of the rangers, druids, and mages (including sorcerers in there for ease) abilities to connect with their animals. They would most likely be able to recognize a ranger and druid, when they walk into a town> And so would have a certain re assuredness when they see their companions or familiar (for the mage type) with them


Thank you for seeing it the same way as i do, Hellblazer. Much appreciated.:D
 

Weeblie

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2008, 12:03:58 pm »
It is also known in the real world that veterinarians are quite good at taking care of animals, with snakes and similar being no more dangerous in their hands as a housecat would be in a normal person's.

But if the said veterinarian, even with badges and everything quite visible, would walk around in the town with the said snake around his arm, do you really believe people would not be afraid? Perhaps even calling the police? :)

Whether a creature is truly harmless or not doesn't really matter... appearance is everything here. Something that is perceived as a threat, is a threat, and hence must be kept outside. And... heh... Rangers and Druids are most likely considered as "weirdos" by the general population. An outsider that should preferable be left alone to his/her own busniess (creepy Aragorn-in-the-inn feeling?). Trust is a little bit shaky at best...
 

Hellblazer

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2008, 12:09:28 pm »
Quote from: Weeblie
(creepy Aragorn-in-the-inn feeling?)/quote]

:D

Gulnyr

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2008, 12:18:37 pm »
Quote from: Hellblazer
Also this being a fantasy world, we have to take into account that the commoners are aware of the rangers, druids, and mages (including sorcerers in there for ease) abilities to connect with their animals. They would most likely be able to recognize a ranger and druid, when they walk into a town> And so would have a certain re assuredness when they see their companions or familiar (for the mage type) with them


Awareness does not equal acceptance or understanding.  Commoners don't necessarily know anything about Druids or Rangers or mages, anyway.  They can be frightening, intimidating loners who may do who knows what.  In general, the more urban the city, the less likely any natural anything is taken as a normal and accepted part of life and the less likely any particular Ranger or Druid is known to a significant portion of the citizens.  In general, the more rural the town, the more likely the citizens know a particular Ranger or Druid, who probably lives in the wilderness nearby.  That still doesn't mean the Ranger or Druid is accepted by the community, though, because there is no set way Rangers and Druids must behave.  They may be Evil, for example, and try to harm the community because the community is seen as invaders of nature.  And rumors get around, so one day commoners hear about nice Rangers and Druids and mages and their animal or monster friends who helped get a cat out of a tree and saved the mayor, then the next they hear about horrible Rangers and Druids and mages and their wild animal assaults on civilization (with imps dropping fire bombs and cougars eating babies).  Who can say what commoners may think, even the same commoners in the same city from one day to the next?

Surely, things would be different in some cases in a fantasy world than in the real world, but magic is still a strange and frightening force to most people in Layonara, so casting flashy spells in towns is usually not appreciated, for good or bad.  Similarly, wild animals are still wild animals even if they are pacing calmly through a town by some rangery guy, and wild animals freak people out, so having animals in towns can cause a big disruption for the normal flow of the day.  The same goes for familiars, especially the larger or more uncommon ones like eyeballs and imps and dragony things.  And, y'know, the laws that may be in place in cities forbidding animals or familiars are as much for the protection of the animals as for the city itself, in some cases; who knows when some mob may try to thoughtlessly attack what they see as a menace to their well being?
 

Hellblazer

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2008, 04:43:31 pm »
Quote from: Gulnyr
Awareness does not equal acceptance or understanding.  Commoners don't necessarily know anything about Druids or Rangers or mages, anyway.

I'll have to disagree on this one. Despite the fact that we don't see them, commoners surely sees the adventurers on a daily basis. Sure they can hear that there is one bad apple somewhere, but there is one simple thing called accustomisation.

Now they see rangers, druid, wizards, sorcerer, etc enter Hempstead on a daily basis. Walking through the crowd with them, and this from a young age. And they hear them talk of what they can do on a regular basis. Example, A ranger talking to his friend at the fountain, about how he was able to calm that bear that was trying to get the honey he had just picked up, to his friend.  They get accustomed to the presence of those individual, and even if they hear the reports of a mage doing something in a land far away (example), they still can relate to their own personal experience that,

"oh wait, I see this wizard with his staff every so often, performing little tricks for kids and making them laughs, he doesn't seem dangerous."

They get acclimated to the presence of such people, that it is normal for them to be able to walk in town and mix in with the other people, even live and own houses in the same towns and cities. Not to mention the reassurance they feel, knowing that there is heroes living amongst them able to protect them. After all, when you see a cop walking down the street, do you stare at him in awe and clamps on the wall, to let him pass? or do you keep walking because it's normal to see them?

The more people are exposed to a certain thing, the more they get used to it. And considering that there has been a few generations now, I would assume, since Hemsptead (for example) had been destroyed by the dark elves, the fears had ample time to subside to leave place to a certain degree of trust and normality, of seeing people with powers, and abilities walk their streets and live as neighbors.

We may not play every day, we may not be on every single hours. But our character still continue to live their daily lives. What I mean by that is that, they will go out shopping for food, and clothings, they will go on walks in the city and speak to their friends, even if we are not there to play them. That brings a greater exposure of themselves to the people of the towns. I take it this way, when I'm not online, my character lives his daily life, without excitement, cleaning his house, walking in town etc. Even sometimes when I am online, they do that, through rp. But then once in a while, there is some excitement going on. The excitement is -not- on a regular basis but a portion of their lives.

Pen N Popper

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2008, 05:05:44 pm »
Your walking down the street and see a pitbull or rottweiler standing next to someone.  The dog is not on a leash but just sitting there.  The owner is chatting with someone and their back is turned; the dog is looking at you.  Do you feel safe walking past?

You have a baby in your arms and a toddler by the hand.  Do you feel safe walking past?

Now consider that the dog is not a notoriously vicious breed of housedog, but instead is an horse-sized wolf with visible fangs.  Do you feel safe walking past?  Are you insane?

It doesn't matter if a few people are comfortable around dogs, many more aren't.  Even in todays modern society a vicious breed of dog scares common people.  We are as acclimated to the sight of them as any fantasy world would ever be, probably more so.

Now consider that the owner of the beast is bristling with swords, bows, and all manner of weapons.  Do you feel safe?
 

Hellblazer

Re: Are Animal Companions Allowed in Cities?
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2008, 05:08:39 pm »
I personally have no problem with them :D

Just remember that in those time it was normal to see travelers with their weapons coming into town, for all sorts of reasons. And unless the village or town had recently been attacked, people were not that afraid of it.