Druid: Improved Forms

[LordCove]

As per Lore Druid Progression.... at Lvl 12.... The Druids Wildshape forms become "Improved".

After hitting said lvl... I havent really noticed any difference with the AC or AB of the shapes... although I cant be sure about other stats.

Is this still a valid Druid perk? If so, can anyone advise what it is that gets improved... incase I missed it.
There was no "feat" for Advanced Forms to take... so I surmise this is automatic.

[HooD!uM]

i only notice that the bear form become dire bear form.

advance shapes is a feat..but you must take alertness beforehand. this gives you cheetah, bird,cat,and snake forms..

i honestly would like to see panther form have like sneak attacks or something..

[LordCove]

So... only the Bear form upgrades? The rest stay the same?

I was expecting my other forms... cheetah... cat... ect... to upgrade a little more as well... to keep inline with the abilities available if I'd Multi-classed to Shifter.

[HooD!uM]

just did a check..wolf,boar..and im guessin badger turn dire also..not really any extra feats or skill tho.

i dont think the advance shapes get anything newer later on..but ive never been that high to check

[darkstorme]

Bear in mind that Shifters don't progress in spell levels.  Druids are primarily a spellcasting class, while Shifters are not, so it really wouldn't make sense for a Druid's shapes to be as powerful as a Shifter's.

Each class has its strengths and weaknesses.  A Shifter gains a higher BAB from some of its powerful shapes; a Druid gains more powerful spells.

[AeonBlues]

They all get stat increases, and as Hoodlum says.  I found them to be decent increases when I got them, but still found cheetah to generally be my best shape.

As for advanced shapes... I never noticed that the small black cat has HIPS till just recently.  I never noticed these shapes getting any better, nor any feat to improve them.

A druid get elemental shapes for shape progression, and the 9th level spell shape change.

I don't think that non epic shifter shapes are so much better that they justify the loss of spell progression.  They were balanced for the single player game where you fight hoards of monsters that are much weaker then you. About half of the shifter shapes are worthless in combat on layonra, as they die easy, they do inferior damage, and their DCs are way too low to effect the creatures you are up against.  

While an epic shifter gets some really nice shapes, only epic characters can take that shifter level 11.  It is a lot of working getting there with soul strands still intact.

P.S all the improved animal shapes (druid level 12) become dire except panther, and panther still gets a nice stat increase.  AB never goes up except for the increase in STR.  Dire bear has a base STR of 30 or something a bit higher.  Just make sure you run and change shape if you see an ant hill.  All these shapes also get more THP.

[HooD!uM]

actually some non epic shifter shapes are fantasic...gargoyle for example..the DR i had from mine was great against giants with what looked like clubs..could just sit there and takes the hits without worry..just took awhile to kill em..kobold...well HiPS and poison damage..very nice...lizardman..my favorite ...two sorts of ele damage on whip..PLUS what u have on your weapon...plus a chance to stun..add a cleric/mage darkfire and your set...shifter shapes once used correctly for different senarios are awesome IMO

[Drizzlin]

actually some non epic shifter shapes are fantasic...gargoyle for example..the DR i had from mine was great against giants with what looked like clubs..could just sit there and takes the hits without worry..just took awhile to kill em..kobold...well HiPS and poison damage..very nice...lizardman..my favorite ...two sorts of ele damage on whip..PLUS what u have on your weapon...plus a chance to stun..add a cleric/mage darkfire and your set...shifter shapes once used correctly for different senarios are awesome IMO

The DR is 15/+1. There are very few creatures in layo that don't have at least a +1 or better magical weapon/attack. I have found the DR from the gargoyle form to be completely worthless outside of the goblin mines =P. Do not get me wrong, I am not complaining. I personally feel the kobold shape is worth it. The wrymling shapes are also amazing for the resistance towards certain magics. The green wyrmling is great for res vs acid.

[ycleption]

Err....Ok, three different things being talked about in this thread.

The automatic feat [lore]Wild Shape[/lore]. The four forms get "improved forms" at level 12, and you should be able to see on your character screen the new stats as per the table on the LORE page.

Advanced wildshape, which can be taken at druid level 6 without any other prerequisite, gives kitten, snake, cheetah, and bird forms. The only way to improve this feat is to take Unlimited Advanced Wildshape, (which does not improve the actual forms) and  is available after a druid takes advanced wildshape.

Shifter forms are a whole different issue.... (this may be where you were confused, Hood!um, about alertness, as it is a required for the shifter class)

[HooD!uM]

yeah hehe..its been awhile since i was there

[LordCove]

Yup.

Was referring to " Improved Forms". I thought it would also effect Advanced Wildshape too ( ie.. cat... cheetah ).. but it doesn't.

Still... seeing the changes in the basic forms... they're not actually that bad.