A leather strap could (and should) come from a cow (or pig, or deer or any other meat-based animal) that's been slaughtered for food, making use of the whole beast (which is friendly to Druidic ideals) rather than leaving parts to rot. |
To forbid the harvest of inanimate materials requires druids to believe in animism
What exactly makes mining bad? I never known the reason, if it's derived from the earth, isn't that natural?
Brief Background:
A while back I had an OOC encounter with a GM while in game. We had been in the Krashin kabold cave, I was playing Zig, and some of my party members had mined the alexandrite. I used a heal spell on the rocks to role play healing the rocks while they were geming. After coming out of the cave, a GM stopped us with their avatar. They had various role play issues to discuss with our party, but I want to address this one about druids. They said as a druid I should have forbid the party from mining the gems and that the healing idea was not adequate. Long story short, the GM suggested that if I mined or let a party member mine gems I could possibly have my druidic powers taken away.
Questions for Discussion:Nope, a specific need here and there may require a trade between a druid and Mother Nature for the greater balance of it all. Constant pulling of Her (or It's for the non religious) resources simply to make a better ring, skill, etc is not a balanced way to operate. Balance, need, amounts, intent.. all of these things must be weighed against the taking of resources.
1) Are druids forbidden to mine gems?
2) Do druids have to affirmatively forbid any party members from mining gems?Nope but they have a vested interest in weighing in on how much is too much and finding out WHY the deed is being done. When Mother Nature dies off or even 'just' becomes greatly weakened because too many resources are being pulled too fast from Her/It, the druids will lose a lot more than playmates to go bum around the server killing stuff with.
3) Are druids allowed to let party members mine for ore?It has been stated over and over that ore itself is not unnatural but the processing of it makes it very unnatural to druids. No they aren't being asked to stand guard over every vein of ore with a shock stick and kill anyone who tries to mine. They are asked to be mindful of the harvesting of Mother Natures resources and make sure that only what is necessary is taken. To make another medical reference (which I feel is a very appropriate stance for druids to take) when is the need so great that you take a piece of bone from a living body to graft it to another part in order to save it? When is the need so great that delving into the bones of Mother Nature is actually NECESSARY. What's that line, well that's a great point of discontent between races and dogmas the world over. Druids tend to go with, 'take only what you need right now and leave the rest alone' and no, getting your crafting skill up to it's peak is not a need, for the record. Druids are known for being penniless, trinkeless, houseless, etc, etc. They Shun those things. Please see Dorand if that's the kind of character you want to play. Lots of the same comments apply here as with #2 and #1.
4) What if a druid needs a silver enchantment for his scimittar to better hunt undead, the bane of most druids? In that case would a druid be allowed to accompany a party mining silver?Better hunting undead is a relative concept. Is a druid somehow less effective without being able to swing an enchanted (and very grossly made enchantment that does indeed filter nastiness into the environment with it's processes!) weapon at undead or is s/he perhaps given other tools with which to do the job with same or better effectiveness? What makes getting a silver enchantment the only way to be a better undead hunter-druid? This is an RP question and the process of making said enchantment NEEDS to be weighed against what is gained. Perhaps if a particular undead who is going to destroy an entire eco-system can only be killed this way, it is a fair and balanced trade. Otherwise, there's likely a better way and less damaging way to operate and still be a good undead hunter-druid.
5) As in question #4 a druid may have needs for other gems and ore (topaz dust for casting stoneskin, emeralds for ability jewelry, titanium for weapon enhancements against outsiders etc.) Is it expected of a druid to sacrafice and pay top dollar for these finished items, were others can reduce the cost by harvesting the raw materials?I know we clashed about this at the time of discussion that apparently sparked these questions so many months after the fact, but stoneskin and other enchantments are not required to play a class or character. There are ways around using components, such as the eshew feat line. Just like there is a sacrifice in playing a dark elf (which is considered a special race by lore standards) there are sacrifices in playing a druid (which is considered a special class by lore standards). There are ideals you are expected to uphold and it is stated as such at the time of submission. Players are not approved if they do not agree to uphold those ideals. In this case a sacrifice can either be, casting those spells at a delayed time (compared to your mechanical level) just like Zig's traveling buddies suggested at the time, or simply not casting those spells at all. And I'll re-head off the whole discussion about "How come we should sacrifice this stuff if 'Mother Nature' gave them to us to use at this time?" That's a slippery slope to use general mechanics to justify RP. By the same logic Az'attan wizards are being given carte blanche to go cast every attack spell in the book just because they have it. Our devs don't have the time to go through and code up a different type of class for every possible combination of race/class/deity/alignment/PrC. Instead we rely on players to stick to the spirit of the server and RP the combination they submitted for of their own choice.
I realize and enjoy the fact that their are vast and different ways for druids to rp how they would handle these situations. But I dont want to fear Zig losing his powers over a misconception about the mining of gems and ore. Therefore, I think after some discussion here, it would be helpful for the Team to lay down some specific parameters for druidic conduct regarding my questions.
I look forward to hearing opinions and responses from both GM's and players,
~Willhoff
I was the GM in question that apparently slung mud and showered poor Zigrum with untruths and super restrictive lies. Actually that's not at all true. I do have a log of the events to back me up and if it's requested, I'll post it up in it's unedited form for all to see the exact discussion. Druid abuse of nature wasn't the only reason I stopped the group.
For clarity's sake to the server, the event in question was a specific case, not a general "no you can't do this ever" one.
In this case, every vein was being mined, every creature was being killed, and in general every possible advantage from the earth and it's creatures was being taken in an effort to better the crafting skills/create a stock pile of stuff for others. That is against what Layonaran Druids stand for. Period.
Zig's player did RP dumping some healing magic into each vein and made a half-hearted objection at someone's very illicit description of Mother Nature.
Additionally there was no real insistence that caution be used as to how much was taken, lives lost etc.
Just a little nudge, Voraxians don't really like magic at all and consider 99% percent of magic to be 'evil necromancy,' druids included. The exception? Clerics blessed with the gifts from Vorax (and I think Dorand and Vorax's allies). So the need for stoneskin dust etc, really is double impacted here by lore indications.
Just a little nudge, Voraxians don't really like magic at all and consider 99% percent of magic to be 'evil necromancy,' druids included. The exception? Clerics blessed with the gifts from Vorax (and I think Dorand and Vorax's allies). So the need for stoneskin dust etc, really is double impacted here by lore indications.
Thats wrong. Dwarves view the blessings from Nature in a different way than the filthy Al'noth from Lucinda. The druid gets his powers from the rocks, the air, the trees not from Lucinda. Zigruum would not cast a single blessing if he felt it was anything close to "evil necromancy"
Rowana : There are other ways around it. Stoneskin isn't vital.is a little troubling from the perspective of whatever benefit a spell may have for a caster, that benefit should not take priority over the RP of the character or of the class.
Zigruum Frostbeard: [Party] I disagree
Rowana : You can disagree all you want druid guy but Mother nature is going to buck back and take your powers if you continue to violate her.
Rowana : You guys are a creative bunch. I've seen it in how you try and make your Apps work in subs. I know you can work it out. A little IC violence, and all that! You know?~
Zigruum Frostbeard: [Party] //i know but why would moter nature give powers that require mining of topaz
Zigruum Frostbeard: [Party] advice taken....just trying to work all this out thanks
Rowana : No, don't cross Mechanics with lore. That's a very dangerous road. You need to exercise a little common sense where these thigns are concerned. Our coders do not have time to specialze all of these spell lists. Nore the Pallete space
I did some research since that time and found there are druids on the all time crafter list for gem crafting. I uncovered forum trade hall posts were druids were selling all kinds of gem dusts and planning gemming trips for topaz. Druids I ran with were mining gems and allowing others to mine ore. I started to feel I was being singled out and there was one set of rules for Zigruum and another for all other druids.
Once you suggested/threatened that my powers would be stripped my enjoyment in playing Zigruum was lost and I feared playing him. I think if your going to take away the powers of a character based on his role play then rules should be established. Only now have I realized that there are creative ways to balance CNR harvesting.