Druids and shapeshifting

[willhoff]

I saw this in the Druid Forum and had a question regarding Druid shapes after viewing it:

For posterity :

Quote:
Originally Posted by miltonyorkcastle View Post
Updated LORE reference-linkUndead Shape and LORE reference-linkConstruct Shape with notes indicating they should not be used by Layo shifters and why.

Question(s):  Based on the above, I assume Druids should not be using Iron Golem form that is available throught the Druid Nineth level spell [LORE]Shapechange[/LORE]?

What about Death Sladd form and Balor Form?  Not really sure what you mean  by unnatural.

Thanks,

Willhoff

[Rowana]

Correct. Iron Golems are unnatural forms in the eyes of druid/druid culture.

Balor and Sladd are considered natural, even if they do not come from Layonara. They are outsiders/pit creatures but they are naturally occurring.

Unnatural sorts are creatures that live outside of the cycle of life. Undead is the obvious example. Golems because they are built, essentially. Things like that. Pit creatures may not belong on Layonara but they do exist inside the normal cycle of life and are tolerable by the vast majority of druids. I'm not going to go on an absolute statement there as there's certainly room for some druids to take offense at the presence of pit creatures on Layonara.

Simply put, druids revere nature to the utmost so things that are considered unnatural by the druid perspective are going to be something druid PCs should avoid in order to keep with the lore of Layonara. Something like undead or constructs would be an anathema and not tools that one should lower themselves to using for any reason.

~row

[willhoff]

Okay I think I understand.  If it occurs naturally in any realm, even outstide Layonara, then it is considered natural.  If it is built or undead (which is kinda of like being built through necromancy) then it is unnatural.

I believe there are certain "rituals" mostly evil, that have to take place before a pit creature or creature from another plane can be brought to Layonara.  Would not this "ritual" (sometimes involving live sacrafices, selling your soul, undead?) be considered a break in the cycle and therefore offensive to Druids, thereby making the form offensive to them?

Edit:  I believe most balors go to other realms to harvest souls?  Wouldnt this fact by itself make most Druids abhore balors?

Thanks for your response Row

Willhoff

[Rowana]

That was my non-absolute response on the pit dweller's aspect. Some would consider the pit dwellers natural because they are and not attribute the reason they are present on this realm to the creatures themselves, others might object. Absolutely up to the individual view of the druid in question, PC or NPC. (And yes that means that some druids are going to get very upset at other druids for violating personal beliefs.)

~row

[Lance Stargazer]

This is just my personal opinion , from the druid point of view, I think that There are two diferent things here. you can see that the demons are natural, that doesn't mean they are "good" for nature, They are able to raze a city and some ( extremist ) druids might find this a "pro" nature attitude. But would be the oposite if they are found burn down a forest or trying to bring down the great oak. That doesn't change the fact that the creature still is alive and come from nature itself ( at any place tough , Think that maybe there are druids on the pits as well, The universe is quite extense to think that druids only exist on layo, other pits might have this kind of people as well  )

Now on the ritual, I am sure that most druids might frown upon it, Since it going against the nature ( for the action itself , not the creature called )  The pit dweller is still alive and it came from somewhere, he was not "built" or "created", he was transported to this plane..  Again the intent of it being brought to layo is enterly another matter. The creature even if evil is not the problem, the ritual might be  

Think on this when you RP this situations. Does this creature exist naturally somewhere, was it created? That would help you to understand the situation there.

[willhoff]

[LORE]Xandrial[/LORE] comes to mind and all the disturbed creatures that still linger from his days on Belinara.  But I agree he is natural, just that what he does (harvesting souls and destroying forests and people and corrupting animals) seems unnatural.  Maybe there are some Balors out there that plant trees but I have yet to hear of one

[drakogear]

I has a question involving this. Around Epic levels the Druid and Shapeshifter can chose the epic feat Dragon Form. Kinda wander how that's handled in layo

Note Sorcerers/wizards with shapechange and Polymorph self can turn into dragons as well. Almost thinking... wouldn't doing this attract the attention of other real dragons?

[Dorganath]

It surely may...or the Green Dragon Cult.

[Skabot Redwolf]

*Skabot checks to make sure all his windows are locked...for the third time*