The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => Ask A Gamemaster => Topic started by: Jon Heinrich on January 27, 2008, 06:44:38 pm
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Whats all this with people using a listen check on someone who speaks one sentence or so, and connecting the voice to a voice you heard months ago in character?
I mean, I understand if a character were to recognize a voice that had been distinct, or perhaps one of a family member or a friend.
In character, players shouldn't remember randoms voices.
Perhaps I'm wrong here, but it doesn't make much sense for someone to remember everyones voice, except if the characters intelligence is particularly high.
Question:
Am I completely crazy here? Or do I have something here?
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Well to remember someones voice, I don't think it would be a listen check, all that does is tell them that yes they do hear you. I would think it would be more of an INT check, and unless they are an orc, or someone like steel it should be a high roll. on the otherhand, if you have done something that stands out say chased a girl all the way to hempstead from fort vehl :p your voice is something that would stick out in peoples minds relevent to that situation.
The magic number for me is 3, after three times partying with someone I will always remember them from their voice. providing they talk and they normaly do ;)
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Maybe a listen check paired with a wisdom check or intelligence check would be better (and OOC tells to make sure the other player doesn't object strenuously). If it was a random voice heard in passing, I agree with you. On the other hand, when there has been previous intense conversation or argument (which is often the case when players make checks like that). I don't think it's so unusual that a voice could impress on the memory of someone. Maybe a previous discussion or first meeting was in the dark, and the character has a stronger associations with the other characters voice.... There are always times when a given check is reasonable, and times when it is completely unreasonable. I can see how this could be abused, but with some common sense, I think it can be an appropriate way to recognize someone.
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I think he's reffering to me, see, only time I spoke to them was on New Years, which was about 6-12 words, before I passed out. I've spoken to Jaigan before, and travelled with him and said a bit.
Voices are very very hard to remember in real life, how often does one pick up the phone and not recognise a voice. In reality, it's limited to friends and family, to remembering voices.
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Or a blind person who is paying attention to the world around them.
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or someone who uses his ears to work *whistles a bit innocently*
Truly though, if an action is done that impress on the mind of someone, the voice, the smell, the shape of the eyes and colors, can be enough to actually revive that memory. An example is to take the people in a line up, and being identified by their voice when they are asked to say something.
A high listen check should be sufficient to not be coupled with a int check, in my mind. I'm not talking of let say a 16 here but more in the range of the 30+. The opposing player can always asks for the person to roll an int in conjunction to that.
And other thing I have seen to often, is people changing their clothes thinking it's enough. There is many ways to identify people, the voice is one, the demeanor of the person, how he stands, how he acts and reacts, how he walks even the speech pattern.. All of those have to be rpied properly if you truly wish you persona's to be taken for someone else, bluff checks and perform checks also should be proficiently used, when you RP hiding your identity.
just my two cent of one who does it already with one of his char.
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At the same time, I think people have to remember that everyone is here to have fun... if it's going to spoil the fun for the other player, have a little restraint. Personally, in absence of a dm, I usually just send a tell to the player asking if they are recognizable in any way, or something along those lines, and let them decide how much leeway they want to give me in trying to recognize them. For some characters, being "discovered" may give rise to fun RP, for others, it will just mess up what they've been working on. I'm not saying you should completely abandon your own character in order to avoid conflict, but just be mindful of others.
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I think ycleptions point is important, today people used such checks, to deliberately and maliciously ruin another person's fun and enjoyment of a game for OOC reasons, using OOC information IC. This isn't what it should ever be about.
**This wasn't everyone, just 1-2 people, I said people, not everyone. I won't say their name as they know who they are, I have no proof, if I get it, I will be sure to submit it, they said as much as to promise to force me to quit/ruin my time in tells before I knew how to screenshot**
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That is a strong accusation. I don't doubt that OOC information is wrongly used to make IC decisions sometimes (usually accidentally), but "to deliberately and maliciously ruin another person's fun" is a pretty hefty phrase to toss in, and you are saying this of an entire group, which makes it seem less likely.
If this is a true statement rather than just melodrama and exaggeration, submit the evidence to the DM.
To the topic, ycleption's first post is a good one. Since this is about disguises more than Listen checks, I dug up these quotes from a very old thread about disguises:
I would suggest, as a way to signify you are diguised with the limitations of hte game mechanics, that you setup a quickslot macro that describes how you are dressed. Face isnt visible, speaks in a low(er) voice, walks stiffly as opposed to his usual loping gait... or something like that. Then just spam that eveytime someone walks up. well, not spam, but you know what I mean. You may have to split it into two quickslots if its too long. I realize spellcasters are short on quickslots :P but, two temporarily for this purpose would be worth it I think. The only problem is that people may think "oh, he's describing his appearance, that means I should go over and be suspicious!" heh But hopefully overall it will work out better than not doing it and haveing people recognize you.
I agree with Talan here. The responsibility is with you to let people know you are in disguise otherwise people who know you will just assume it is you.
And the just because you have a disguise does not mean people wont recognise you. You will have to give people the chance to roll probably spot to see if they can recognise you. As far as the DC goes, that would depend on how well people know you in the first place and how good the disguise it. Even wearing a helmet there is a lot of things that will give you away. Voice and body language being two thatjump into my head straight away. I would say a DC of between 20-30 should probably be sufficient to recognise you.
I'm sort of torn between agreement and a "just deal with it, everyone has to at some point." There are a lot of cases where people blow decent disguises because of the floaty name, and also many more where there is perfectly good reason for recognizing a disguised character. Either way, reminding people to think twice before identifying a silent figure cloaked from head to toe across a city crowded with NPCs, is not necessarily a bad thing.
Yes, the disguise itself is not enough, you have to roleplay it and emote it and all that, and may still be recognized. But if you don't type at the speed of light, it's hard to get out a description before half the people in the town blurt out your name. :) Just put a little thought and roleplay into it on both sides, is all I'm saying.
Edit to point to what Talan said about the quickslotting a "HEY GUYS, GUESS WHO" macro. (Maybe not that one, exactly.)
Do you have any skill points in bluff? If not, [your character] may not be as good at disguising himself as he thinks he is. His attempts at lowering his voice may not fool anyone who knows [him] fairly well, and the helmet may not fit [the character], and his fighting style (even though he does his best to change it) is probably much like it always was - especially in pressed situations.
[I edited this one to make it more generic and less about one character, but it is otherwise as originally written. - Gulnyr]
To add to the part I bolded in the third quote, people change their clothes all the time. My character has nine sets of clothes with her all the time, which I change pretty much every time I log in, and I make something new now and then. Clothes themselves are not a disguise. A hood or helmet itself is not a disguise. It takes some extra effort or people will just think, "Oh, new clothes. Nice."
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I think ycleptions point is important, today people used such checks, to deliberately and maliciously ruin another person's fun and enjoyment of a game for OOC reasons, using OOC information IC. This isn't what it should ever be about.
**This wasn't everyone, just 1-2 people, I said people, not everyone. I won't say their name as they know who they are, I have no proof, if I get it, I will be sure to submit it, they said as much as to promise to force me to quit/ruin my time in tells before I knew how to screenshot**
Now if this is true I find this pitiful that some people would go and do that. but as for the rest, changing clothes should not be not enough if its not supported with rpable emotes and appropriate checks.
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Just on the subject of voices: Maybe I'm the odd duck out and it wouldn't surprise me if I were but in real life I often recognize someone by their voice before I recognize a face.
On the other: Its unconscionable, honestly, assuming that it was done with the express intent to ruin someone's enjoyment. You should speak to a GM you feel comfortable addressing the issue with if it continues or you still feel strongly about it.
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another thing to add to this with voice and disguise
and we will use this example because he chimed in-the mage in the hood
he never changes his staff, doesnt mean you have to go alter it/ buy another one
he is always with the same people
he always acts the same
if you want to not be recognized, by a different helm, wear different colors and clothing style
just cause you altered the robe look by one or two choices, doesnt mean you wont be known
another thing, when dealing with others, act differently, be loud and happy and dont sit in a corner acting suspicious in a new robe
just some ideas
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I do try to be helpful and friendly to everyone I meet, especially players newer/lower in level who need a hand, I know sometimes I get a bit angry quickly, but a few recent real life events led to that and I apologise.
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In my humble opinion... perhaps preform checks should be used if you are playing the role of a different person every time you meet someone, especially if its the same people over and over?
Just an idea, mechanics wise.
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The thing that always cracks me up is how paranoid people get when there's a perfect stranger in a hood, and how they feel it's their right to unmask the entire world. The person could just be sitting off in the corner with their hood on, across the street or chatting in the bar and this character will run up, eyes wide, "SIR! I DEMAAAAND that you take off your HOOD! DO IT! ARGH DO IT NOW!!!". *grab grab* *dex check! dex check!* It's like the whole bloody world's going to end unless some random stranger pulls down his hoodie, and the ranting psycho never bothers to question any of the town guards with helms on, or any NPC they come across. I really wish they'd accidentally grab somebody with leprosy and suffer -4 dex for the rest of their lives from their fingers rotting off sometimes. "oi lad, now ye know why I wear a hood..."
Sheesh... almost as bad as those people who scream that you don't know their name yet somehow know you well enough to join in life & death hunting in the barren wastelands... as if people normally just wandered around with strangers to kill orcs and it were as common as a game of Street Fighter at the arcade. You'd think that when life and death and teamwork in the face of impending doom were on the line, one'd be past the telling people what their name was before they'd be permitted to walk behind you with swords drawn.
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I'm with Eor - I recognize a voice before a face sometimes.
The other thing that stands out is impressions.
If Character HidyNoname does something that draws attention to themselves it is more likely they will be remembered either by face, voice, manner, association than Character Smith that just blends into the background.
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If I remember rightly, statistically 80% of ID's of criminals are roughly done via clothing I think, I could be wrong but I'm reasonably certain.
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I think you kinda missing the point Lonnarin. It's not the question of just a hood, but if you want to effectively hide your identity 1 a hood where the person -can- see your face is just not going to cut it. 2 there is a lot more than just changing your clothes to effectively hide who you are.
That is the point of this whole debate.
I would also liek to add a little thing. I personally believe that listening is something that is done on a constant unless you choose not to listen. The emoting of the check is simply to reflect the chances they would recognize the voice.
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In my humble opinion... perhaps preform checks should be used if you are playing the role of a different person every time you meet someone, especially if its the same people over and over?
Just an idea, mechanics wise.
Agree completely.
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If Character HidyNoname does something that draws attention to themselves it is more likely they will be remembered either by face, voice, manner, association than Character Smith that just blends into the background.
and agree 100% with this too. Unless of course the pc is an excellent performer and the mannerism, accent, voice, and actions were out of the norm.
So now how do 'you' counter a perform check? My PC tends to use bluff with bluff as a good liar can spot a lie. But do you use perform against perform, or is it your wisdom or Int that tells you its all a magnificent act?
hehe, maybe I should start my own thread with that thought though :rolleyes:
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I should also add that while people might be a little more tolerant of hoods or helms on the roads, Hempstead isn't 'shadowy figure central'. Unless it's raining, it's perfectly reasonable for a member of the Silverguard to ask you to remove your face-concealing garment, for the exact reason that a number of people wear them: people who, by the rules posted outside the Hempstead gates should NOT attempt to enter Hempstead, do.
Dark elves and other classically evil races sometimes manage to slip into Hempstead, but do so at their own risks. The people of Hempstead in particular have every reason to be wary of people who cover every square inch of skin if they can't provide a good reason why they shouldn't.
Beyond that, it should be clarified that a hood, unless pulled VERY low (like, vision-obscuring-for-the-wearer) is not going to be a 100% foolproof way to conceal your identity, because it's not face-concealing. This doesn't even touch into the peril you're in if you're a dark elf or an orc or something, where they just need to get a HINT that it's not all good under the hood. Helmets, although a better solution for this, have their own brand of 'suspicious'. Helmets are heavy, bulky, and if you wear them for any length of time, very, very hot. Someone in a non-combat-oriented area with no easily discernable reason for wearing a helmet is going to draw MORE attention to themselves.
As far as recognition by voice goes, even the responses in this thread have shown a real difference in ability to recognize voices. I myself fall somewhere in the middle of the road. However, someone who's heard you speak before has a chance of recognizing your voice if he or she hears it again. If there's no real attempt to change the voice, the chances improve. If you exhibit similar mannerisms, or clumsily manifest a facade of different mannerisms, people may at the very least be suspicious of you. If you've also got some face-concealing item, you skate a very dangerous line.
Different people will deal with such things in differing ways, but if you're somewhere that your character shouldn't be for whatever reason, you're taking a risk. Slapping an item on isn't going to remove all risks of identification. This isn't to say that people are justified in specifically demanding the removal of the hoods of all dark elves or orcs, or even petty criminals, unless they demand the same of all hood-or-helm wearers, or unless they have some other reason to be suspicious of the same.
A voice they think they recognize.. might be a gray-area reason for suspicion.
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If said person wears gold fullplate armor with a helm, then 2 weeks later said person shows up someplace else with different silver fullplate with a different style helm your not gonna recognize him. when he talks you still won't know simple becuase the helmit is shaped differently therefore changing the ammount of muff and echo comming out of it.
I can see most people still have the superman adventurer system in full swing. you read fantasy novels, watch movies, and read history books it's pretty obvious how easy it is/was to fool people especially back in the midevil times. Now of course there is always a few exceptions but not in the way it's being played out in game. If you want some evidence on how people are metagaming the "knowing who you are" get 2 people one a normal elf and one a darkelf and slap a hood on both of them and walk up to people and you'll notice 9/10 of them somehow sniff out the darkelf even though the guy next to him is wearing the same thing they don't get harassed. I've seen it happen a few times myself I even had to step in and say "hey I'm wearing a helm too some people just like it that way" just so the darkelf could still hang out and have fun.
but hey that's just how it works in the real world and most fantasy novels maybe here on Layo it's perfectly natural to have "spidersense" to sniff out evil races hehe :p
Also as a reminder, Cities have people, even though you don't see them they do in fact have lots of people moving around them, your average cloak, coat and armors are not all custom made they are in fact very popular for adventurers so just becuase you see said person wearing dark coat and hood you remember that dark coat and hood on said person so you know who they are, that's not remembering that said person is 1 of hundreds of people wearing that dark coat and hood. There is just know way your going to remember every person wearing a dark coat and hood just aint happening unless you got maybe an INT of 100 or have photographic memory supported in your char Bio lol.;)
the bit about I remember how they walk and act and this and that, I can agree with to a point, however if they are just showing up and not the focus of attention it's very unlikely you'll notice any sort of trait, and even more so did you emote the notice? I do think you should always emote a triat so there is a log to support your char noticing. at the same time did said char emote a trait to begin with?
*A man wearing a dark coat and hood silently walks into the tavern, like a panther stalking it's prey, he goes to the back where its darkest and leans on the wall casually watching over the patrons drinking their ales and eating their meals, when asked for somethign to drink he simple nods a no and ignores the barmaid*
In that, we can clearly see some traits, the way he walks, the fact he preferes the back of the tavern to be alone and not noticed. That he is watchful, and he only talks when needed. the chances of remembering this person is pretty good if you in fact notice him that night.
*while drinking her ale she notices the man in a dark coat and hood enter the tavern and make his way to the back where the lights are dim, she takes an interest at the way he walks and his ever watchful eyes as well as the way he brushes off the barmaid with a nod*
Now, this women can in fact notice this man at a later date, why because she did in fact have something to notice, as well as emoting the notice. People hiding their identity need to emote more, people notcing need to emote it, why? lets start with the number one reason, We are an RP server!! haha. This thread has gone from one side being too agresive to the other side not trying hard enough, but really both sides are not being fare to each other, emote, emote, emote! give us something to work with, and in return let them get away with things that you should probably not be able to notice. it's all about fun and in an RP world I think having my char not know is just as fun as having him know.
That's just the way I see it anyways.:p
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another thing being left out here that some chars have is another sense sometimes forgotten
smell
mages in general carry components
therefore they have a residual scent upon their hands and clothing no matter what color clothing
just like rangers and druids will have scents like their companions, or where they live(i.e. a wolf pack having a pack scent)
mages smell like what they use most of
if you use fire spells im sure you smell faintly of smoke and ash
if you summon dead things often
guess what your going to have a residual odor of dead things
why
your around them alot
and those who use their noses may not place the exact smell for what it really is
but they know when and who around they smell it
and it would stick out no matter your outfit
unless you bathe after every spell casting session, and always wear fresh clothing
but we are adventurers
how many times have we spent days in our clothes and gear
trapsing around swamps and caves and the wilds
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Whilst I do agree that smell/sound are ways of having a general idea of who a person is, I don't think it's enough to go:
Hmmmm I smell death, That must be Killy Mc Necro the guy from 227 Prantz!
Whilst I also think sound is somewhat of an indicator, I don't think it's foolproof way of knowing who someone is, I think it's more *that voice sounds familiar* unless you know them very well.
Just leading to where I throw a few ideas up:
1). Knowing my Scent: Perhaps you get say, a +5 on the opposed bluff check to represent the familiar spells, tying into the overall picture as to who the person may be.
2). Knowing by sound:Perhaps the same as above, perhaps bonus's ranging from +1 to +10 depending on familiar, +1 being someone you met once or twice/didn't speak much, up to +10 for family/close friends and such. I also think that it would be more likely an intelligence check because you arn't trying to hear the voice, but trying to remember it.
3) Opposed bluff checks to detect a lie, normally it's sense motive in DnD, but seeing as skills oppose skills I think that opposed bluff makes the most sense personally *shrugs*.
4) Final point: With bluff checks, do people think every sentence should involve a bluff check, or just once at the start of a meeting to assume an identity and then say, a bluff check whenever someone lies? Making a bluff check with every sentence is tedius and will slow RP down to a crawl.
5) Seeking consensus, do people believe it's bluff or perform for disguises, in PnP there was a disguise skill I *think*, so does it make sense to use perform? Bluff is about lies and deceit, perform is about being flamboyant and entertaining, assuming an actors role, perhaps perform may also work to some level of deceit, and could be used, to help one lie, not sure on thoughts on this one. But I don't think perform should be the *only* skill to disguise ones self. For an example of my thoughts, I'm sure an assassin is great at hiding his identity, assuming other identities when necessary and staying out of people's minds, but I'm quite sure he fails epically at singing, acting and playing the violin. However, I wonder how well a performer does at disguises and lies without repetition and practice?
Also, I just wanted to mention, that not every single thing needs a dice roll, sometimes it can resolve deadlocks, but to dice roll constantly remove the ability of one to decently roleplay a character to their own vision of what it may/should be and what it may/should do. Today I informed one that they didn't need a will check to say no to alcohol and that I can't make a roll to force it onto them. I think a word of advice from the DMG and PHB is worth it here, skills can't force one into actions or substantially change a course of events, they arn't magic, they are mundane, persuade isn't a substitute for enchantment magic. Also, people should remember that sometimes, characters will have some bonus's to their skills in certain situations. If I'm in the dungeon, as today and people saw me with the book, then I say I don't have it, they should have a bonus to their opposed bluff skill against me saying I don't have it, just my $1.50
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:p You're looking for consensus in a forum of thousands ?[well maybe 100's active] Sheesh ...trying being on a quest of more than 2 players and finding a consensus...:p
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:p You're looking for consensus in a forum of thousands ?[well maybe 100's active] Sheesh ...trying being on a quest of more than 2 players and finding a consensus...:p
I can try ^^
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when he talks you still won't know simple becuase the helmit is shaped differently therefore changing the ammount of muff and echo comming out of it.
This was previously asked and answered in a thread specifically for this point, appropriately titled Does a mask or helm alter how your voice is heard? (http://forums.layonara.com/ask-gamemaster/115411-does-mask-helm-alter-how-your-voice-heard.html) In case you don't want to check that thread (which is pretty slim, anyway), this is the final word from The Man himself:
And no, it would not muffle/change your voice enough to disguise or alter etc. Unless it was magically enhanced to do so.
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I don't think it is fair to require a perform roll from someone with no access to the skill. So, I would probably use some form of bluff or something, even though I think perform would be useful. For someone who DOES have perform available, I would use that, with bluff added if they were actively deceiving someone rather than just trying to "be different than they normally are' in voice, appearance, and mannerisms.
Someone with an insane bluff can just look and act a bit different and lie like crazy to explain the difference, because they are intimately familiar with deception and how to make the impossible seem reasonable. Even if they are initially thought of as looking "like that other guy," it will all sound a perfectly plausible mistake after he explains, whereas an epic performer (yet not so good bluffer) seems less likely to be mistaken for himself in the first place by outward appearances. However, he would most likely lack the ability to recover from recognition when it does occur, lacking the skills in deception required. (Edit as example - my bard used to love making aliases and was recently so absent minded that she forgot to ever start her performance at a rather crucial time. She was almost killed for it because she was frantically thinking of a way to answer a question truthfully so as to not be obviously lying...it would never have been a problem if she'd been in the role to begin with.)
Just my opinion on that. I think they go well together but serve different purposes. Perhaps an epic perform would in reality, just be significantly lowering the bluff check needed. So if you needed to bluff your way through something that would normally require a very high skill, your odds would be greatly improved if you had an awesome performance to add to it? But you'd still have to bluff eventually? Just something to think about, I guess.
On the topic of recognizing voices, I would agree that some people do voices and other audible things better than visuals, and forget names. Absent minded bards in particular would probably be more likely to think "that guy sounds familiar" than "oh, it's my uncle Joshua, he's wearing his yellow tie again today!"
I do think most people fall into the latter category, though.
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Hmmmm I smell death, That must be Killy Mc Necro the guy from 227 Prantz!
HEY! I kicked that guy out and I'm still trying to get the smell out of the upholstery.
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Or...
How about putting away the dice? If someone seems to be "up to something" then let it play out. Since stealing and killing characters isn't allowed here it's not like you're in danger. If it doesn't affect your character directly (and being in a party together isn't "directly", I mean your own character's storyline) I say you should let them do what they need to do, and maybe let your character be fooled a bit. If you feel you must call them on it remember it could always lead to a bigger and better confrontation later on..
Seriously. Just let the darn scene or storyline happen. If someone's acting deceptive then try to trip them up in conversation, or have your character grow slowly more and more suspicious, or do about a hundred other things that are a lot more interesting than listen and perform checks. It's so much more rewarding if it's handled creatively.
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umm killing isnt allowed?
i agree with all but that line in your post
especially since khuren is a convicted killer
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OK... guess I'll add two cents or maybe a whole half dollar.
These are my feelings, basically, I'm sorta tired of being told that I can't recognize someone because their robes are dyed a different color, especially when said person addresses my character by name. I send a polite tell asking if I recognize the character that I have met maybe literally 20-30 times IG, and am told no... he's wearing different robes.
Now... so my character has to act like he just fell off the turnip truck that drove in from the back woods cause evidently he's too stupid to recognize someone who addresses him BY NAME! because the robes are picked two selections over in the craft hall and its light purple instead of dark purple this week..................see how silly that is?
And by no means am I offended by the player of this PC, we even chat a bit through tells about whatever...
I just want a ROLL I can use so my character with a 16 INT doesn't have to act like a..... an idiot.
:)Thanks for the time!
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To be honest, I've read all everyone has to say and let me tell you that between the two opposing sides it seems ones trying to get a little slack and the other wants to have fun and go into this whole story thing.
I wish people would perhaps be a little subtle about their accusations in this game.
To make up an RP excuse just to go after someone, is kinda lame.
To elaborate, if someone did something you know of OOC, making up an RP excuse just to try to get a bit of fun at someone else's expense.
I've seen this done a few times, not to me, but it has been done. This is not an accusation, this is a statement by the way, I've seen it done.
I guess the important thing here is that we're all going to have to try to monitor ourselves, and to make sure we don't do anything that selfish and uncalled for.
I hope you all will build up the story around said player, and plan it a little better so the RP quality increases.
Humbly Requested-
Heinrich
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1) I'm not sure how you read 'slack' on one side and 'fun/story' on the other. Can you explain that, please?
2) Are you talking about in-game character accusations or accusations against players? My guess is the former.
In my opinion, accusations against other players should never be subtle, but should always be clear and precise. There's no reason to beat around the bush if something is wrong and needs to be corrected. There's no reason to be subtle if you are trying to clear something up with another player. A couple of respectful PMs can go a long way to fixing a problem that could eventually ruin the fun of several people.
Accusations in-game against characters can go infinite ways. It all depends on the character doing the accusing. Huzzah for variety! Huzzah for roleplaying!
3) Allowing OOC differences to affect IC RP is pretty low if it's on purpose, yes.
4) I'm guessing that you actually meant "I hope you all will build up the story around said character." While that's a fine request, it's the responsibility of each of us to develop our own characters, and other players can only have their characters react to our characters because of our characters' actions. If you leave it up to others, they will probably take the shortest route; not only is that human nature, but they have their own characters to develop. If they wanted to develop yours, they would be playing him already.
If you want your character to be disguised, roleplay the disguise with all the toppings; don't just change clothes and expect that to be enough. If you want your character to be the pinnacle of light and glory, roleplay light and glory for all you're worth; don't just grab a Toranite shield and expect others to stare in awe. It's the responsibility of the player of a character to present the character as he wants the character to be seen. It's a two-way arrangement - you put in effort and effort will be returned.
Be prepared, though, because it doesn't always work the way you might want, especially if you've already left an impression. I've tried to play my character in such a way that she is seen in a certain light, but some people see something entirely different. Maybe it's the vague nature of the text, so that the other player read something differently than it was meant. Maybe there was something happening with my character that the other character didn't know about, which left a poor impression. Maybe the other character has some reason to dislike my character that has nothing to do with my play at all. Maybe there's an OOC problem that bled over; unfortunate, but it happens sometimes. Nothing is going to be perfect.
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Undeleted and locked, to preserve the actually useful information for future reference.