Layo and Atheism

[LightlyFrosted]

While of course it is POSSIBLE for someone in Layo to be truly atheistic - a feat which, in my imaginings at least, would require a great deal of actual work, what with the tremendous mystical success of clerics, how common are genuine atheists?  That is to say, not people who do not worship a specific deity, but people who actively disbelieve in the existence of the gods?

This is more of a curiosity thing than anything else, as people have mentioned atheism a number of times.  After all, even those who specifically refuse to worship any god might still see evidence of their existence, living in a theistic society where prayers are answered directly with the ability to magically heal, to shake the earth, to summon tremendous fire storms, etcetera.

[Weeblie]

Genuine atheists are more or less impossible on Layo, as the proof of the otherwise is far too strong. You can probably find less layo atheists than layo people who really think that tomorrow will be the doomsday. So... yes, they probably exist, but then, perhaps we are only finding a handful in the whole world.

Edit: There is of course also the possibility that a heavily isolated group of people are atheists because of them never thinking of the existence of the deities. Like... a small village in the middle of absolutely no where, having no contact with the outside world at all. But even for them... It's still tricky to be exactly sure how long they would remain atheists. You have on one side the possibility that someone from the outside world do happen to enter the village and bring the religion with him... or perhaps even one of the gods actively do a tiny miracle of some kind for them...?

[osxmallard]

Genuine atheists are more or less impossible on Layo, as the proof of the otherwise is far too strong.

Any character can believe that clerics powers come from pure magic or a different form of the weave instead of a 'higher power' or god.

[Eorendil]

People who don't believe in the existence of deities are extremely rare because their power can be witnessed on a regular basis.

There are defiant and radical free thinkers as well as people that refuse to pay homage to any god but an atheist as we know it is extremely rare.

[Weeblie]

Any character can believe that clerics powers come from pure magic or a different form of the weave instead of a 'higher power' or god.

Just as that anyone can disbelieve in magic and instead have the thinking of "hidden threads... somewhere...". Anyone with basic understandings of the weave will realise the difference between divine and arcane magic.

Being a true disbeliever, one can of course always argue against whatever argument that appears on the other side, and there are likely those people in the layo world too.

In the real world, I'm sure that there are also people who strongly believe that the earth is flat, the aircrafts are flying because of some strange interdimensional force and that fire is magic.

Though, it has been established before, I think it came up in a character submission, that being a real "I don't believe the gods exist"-person (actually believing in it, and not just saying so) is almost impossible, becomming rare on their own level of rareness.

[Acacea]

I think when most people say atheists, they just mean "don't care," anyway. Even druids that believe the worshiped gods are evolved forces can't deny the forces themselves. Someone who shrugs when a cleric blesses them is not usually so much an atheist as someone who doesn't give the tail end of a rat about it. "How does that affect me?"

And Weebs, in a normal setting, it almost seems more likely that an isolated village would not be atheistic, but rather have their own concept of religion. They may simply have a more rudimentary concept of higher powers. You don't need the pantheon to provide any miracles for them. Left to ourselves, we interpret our own miracles. What culture in the world has not conceived their own gods? It's just that few survive clashing with the rest of them.

But then, in that light... if someone worshipped 'fire' in a particular light, their people looking at it fearfully as something fickle, greedy, and consuming, sacrificing to appease it and not turn on them... in the real world, okay, whatever, but in Layo... perhaps that belief is actually funneled towards Pyrtechon? Some religions hold that all gods of xyz are actually all the same even in the real world, so it would seem there is no reason that a deity could not benefit from the worship of something representing what he stands for. You needn't know a deity's name to serve their purposes. (I bet a cleric would find his way there eventually, though.)

I had a character I never submitted that I was going to put "Rofirein" in the deity field for, even though she pretty much gave the finger to all the gods. Why does a cleric sense a lip service belief, if you're asking the god what the deal is with that guy? It seems more likely that you'd read as "allied" if in all your beliefs and ideals, you were aligned to that god...rather than just preaching a bit.

I guess that's off track though.

In any case, the thing here is that atheism in the real world is associated with the rationalists... people who look up and say... "please provide experimentation and evidence for your hypothesis." Lacking that, they simply have no choice but to call it down, though some may look at the universe itself as evidence for their own form of faith. Atheism in other cases seems more like jaded agnosticism or, well, apathy. In the real world you would need to rely on factual observation and the careful dissemination of commonly held beliefs... in a world of magic, those that decry what does have evidence is not a relying on logic and reason, but is someone ignoring everything around them and clinging to an outdated belief that is overwhelmed with opposing evidence. In other words, swapping places...

[merlin34baseball]

I play two characters actually who say that the gods don't exist... when clerics ask where their powers come from both respond with "from within your self". Then they usually follow up with the question about "well have you ever seen a god?". One of them goes as far as pestering a paladin of Toran about why Toran won't have a meeting with him....

Now both of them are rather smart arses so half of it is to be exactly that and needle people. The other half comes from the fact that their both wizards, who realize power, can come from within, through knowledge, and it's their strange way to try and get people to look for strength within themselves.

Now... do either of them really deep down BELIEVE the gods don't exist, no. But try getting them to admit that!

[Acacea]

But that's the difference between proclaimed atheism and true atheism The rationalists of the world are indeed wizards, yet avidence abounds...and wizards are scholars of magical manifestations and so the difference between their own magic and sorcery is quite clear even though the same results are had from the same source...to their eternal annoyance... hehe. Likewise, that which comes from a divine source... harder to quantify.

There was a famous Layo wizard that grumbled every time someone mentioned religion and priests and faith being a reason to do anything because it is so often lacking in reason and depending on things less than stable, steadfastly defending the powers of one's own self and logical explanations... and yet... and yet... should it come to terms of the life and death of one, I imagine he would be on the 'right' side in secret. And deny everything afterwards.

[Pseudonym]

I find this an interesting topic.

My character certainly acknowledges the existence of the Gods but views them as uber-mortals who are immensely powerful .. ie, powerful enough to grant power to others .. like a souped up "Imbue with Spell Ability" power. Does that make him an atheist? He recognises their power but more questions the very nature of what it means to be Divine. How does one define what it is to be a God (or Goddess)?

Not sure it is as clear-cut as it first appears. Anyways, interesting.