Question Regarding the Character Stable

[Shiokara]

There is one thing I'm curious about with the character stable, when characters are submitted by a player, is it only the DMs, CAs, and person who wishes to take the character who are allowed to make the appropriate edits?
Or are these characters to be understood as 'open source' in a sense, editable by anyone?

I'm asking because I'm aware of two things. First, the author of the original character gives sovereignty of the character up upon submitting him/her to the stable as per this rule:

Once you submit the character, it belongs to the stable and no longer to the submitter (this is absolutely necessary in case a future player would like to have their character be apart of the world changing events of Layonara).

The second rule seems to make it pretty clear that it's only the DMs, CAs, and new owner of the character that are making changes as it states:

Once you submit the character, all the edits will be done directly by the GM/CA team to make it immediately insert-able to the world (with the exception of the needed edits by the new player).

But I'm wondering if maybe making these characters more open source--to be edited by any member that has the time, will, and energy to do so--might be more helpful in the process of getting these characters ready?

I have a particular character in mind, and it's the second thing I'm aware of, as he already has someone who wants to claim him but isn't ready.
http://forums.layonara.com/character-stable/242202-fianon-poetr-not-ready.html

This character will take a lot of getting ready to do. First, the class split includes druid, a restricted class. Second the submission includes domains, which only clerics need be concerned about. Third, deity support is thin, and having something in the deity field requires a certain amount of devotion.

I'm not saying a player could rework it to get approved without it having to be revised, but surface/mechanical issues could be addressed and might help take the load off the DMs and CAs in revision.

After all, "We would like, as a community, to help these folks out and allow them a way to come join us," so why not open it up to all of us who can help (Rowana)?

Best,
Shio

[darkstorme]

On it, actually.  But there's more than just that, I'm afraid.

Not only is Druid not an approved class, but we're taking straight classes only for Stable entries, so he's either being chopped back to Fighter or Ranger.

That being said... while I can't speak for Rowana, if you would like to rework an existing Stable submission, I'd be more than willing to accept PMs with your revisions and edit the submission.  The idea is that minimal posting will take place in the submission threads themselves, keeping them uncluttered and leaving the submission under consideration obvious to those who will be scanning through them looking for something that suits them, and opening the posts themselves to edits without version control (as in a wiki) could easily backfire.

So if you want to do some editing, go right ahead, and PM me the revisions.  As with the other terms of the stable, the CA/GM team reserves the right to edit as much as we feel necessary, to make the character "ready", and your revisions cease to be yours as soon as they leave your hands (though I will certainly add an addendum giving credit where it is due).

When we get things ticking over properly in the Submissions forum, we'll get the Stable working as well - but the offer to help is welcome.

Cheers!

[cbnicholson]

Since you are referring to a character I submitted, I'd like to point out two things.  First, the char classes listed are merely possibilities for that particular character based on how I perceived him raised and what his interests are.  It's not a game mechanic listing specifically, but an rp one.   If Druid isn't an allowable starting class then Ro or another char approver is free to make that change or someone they designate.  Second, my perception of the Stable was as a place put ideas that could be pc's in the world, hence I've given over control the children of my two Poetr characters to the Stable as I have no time or desire to play them.  I've kept them as simple as I could so that more could be added later by the player who adopts them, after they are deemed ready. Hope that helps.

[darkstorme]

No offense intended, cbnicholson!

We do appreciate the contributions, and it will be nice to see them come to life in the hands of players new and old.

However, any submissions that diverge from the rules of the forum will be revised - and multiclasses will result in significant revisions to the biography as they're reduced to one of the approved classes/races/alignments:

• Only use these standard races: Elf, Human, Dwarf, Gnome or Halfling.
• Please only use these classes: Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue or Ranger.
• Single class submissions only please.
• Please only use the following alignments: Lawful Good, Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, Lawful Neutral or True Neutral.

When a character in the Stable is marked "Ready", they're pretty much approvable (with possible adjustments to age or location as suits the player) both under the rules of Character Submissions and those of the Stable.  So you're welcome to submit ideas or character concepts, but they will be pared down or altered to fit the Stable - and may become nearly unrecognizable as a result.

However, as long as you're alright with that, keep 'em coming!  

(Hopefully, no offense was taken at the previous post, and if there was, I apologize - it was not meant to do so.)

[cbnicholson]

None was taken, I overlooked the class restrictions.  So Stephen Poetr never will be ready I guess.  rats.  When Ro made Melanna ready, I figured spell casters were okay. :\

[ycleption]

I do have to wonder why the restrictions...  I understand not wanting to have dark elves, or maybe druids in the stable, by why not gold dwarves, half elves, or other subraces without an ECL, or special submission requirements.

Why not wizards or sorcerers? Why not bards? (I can understand why not the others, although I think its a bit unfortunate)

I have several characters who I would love to put in the stable, but none quite fit the requirements, and I'm not sure I could change them.

[Rowana]

We went with simple races and simple classes because much more then that requires a pretty good handle on the current (and sometimes past) lore of Layonara. The stable was meant for new players, primarily, so we could get them into the world. This was designed in response to the big complaint of new players having to jump through 'too many hoops' just to get into the world so they could learn things first hand.

Example: Magic works a certain way in Layo. It's a little bit hard for new players to grasp, not because it's generally difficult but because there's so -much- to grasp at one time. So the bracket of people who learn best in a hands on environment, or those who really just want to get in to the world and see if this place is for them, the Stable is geared toward these folks. There are of course other ways the Stable can be used but this was the original intent. The Stable is only a small solution despite the amount of work it entails because it only aids that certain bracket of the player base. For now we rely on the rest to ask for what they need and see if we can comply.

~row

[Pseudonym]

I think if we are requiring new players to have a "pretty good handle" on 6+ years of accumulated lore before they can play a particular class (something over and beyond something we can summarise in a paragraph or two), we are doing ourselves no favours in terms of recruiting (probably) quite competent roleplay assets to the community.

[Rowana]

Perhaps you should go back and read my whole post once more, Pseudonym. I specifically said it was to help avoid that particular problem. Some people will have the capacity to pick it up just reading it over and want the challenge, others learn hands on, and yet others just wanna see what it's all about and don't want to commit to something lengthy. We are working on catering to all, the Stable was one step in that direction.

~row

[Pseudonym]

Perhaps you should not assume my point arose from not reading your post in it's entirety, Rowana.

My point was (is) if what is required to know with respect to lore about playing a magic-using class is not able to be summarised into a couple of paragraphs then we are making things too complicated for new players. This is a general statement. If it is able to be summarised into a couple of paragraphs, then I would think such as ycleption suggested, and with which I agree, would then be viable additional options for the stable.

[Rowana]

@Pseudo, I didn't really assume your post was directed solely at me, but it did contradict the point I was attempting to make almost as if you had completely misunderstood the point of it.

I don't think that any of what is represented in our lore is too complicated, but there is quite a lot of it (as you have noted elsewhere). The sheer volume of it can confound players, no matter how seasoned they are when they enter Layo's stomping grounds. Again, the Stable was one attempt at making things easier for a certain bracket of new players. We will not, of course, be reducing the amount of lore in the game. We want players to find a challenge here, to be invested, and interested, not just bashing the heck out of things with bigger and better equipment (as is the case in most MMOs and MPGs from which people largely have experience).

You can summerize the vast majority of lore in to a few paragraphs, rather easily but first you have to understand what you are talking about. For those who have given us feed back on the CA process, the ones who -actually- -are- brand spanking new players (not just long time players hypothesizing), the Stable was designed. Once the CA team gets caught up funneling the last of the recent wave through we will endeavor to edit up and make ready the charitably donated characters.

~row

[Shiokara]

This thread has deviated somewhat from my original query which may be summarized as:

May players (working in conjunction with CAs) who have the time, will, and energy help make characters already submitted to the stable ready for insertion into the world?

Darkstorme has already provided one answer, which breaks it down to. Yes, but any changes made should be PMed to the CAs instead of posted to that character's thread in the stable so confusion can be minimized.

How do Row, Ycleption, and other CAs feel about this question and Darkstorme's response?

This is an attempt to lighten the load a bit for the CAs, who now have to worry over not only new submissions (of which there is generally a constant flow) as well as potential new submissions in the stable.

Any other debates and discussions are, of course, welcome and appreciated, but I would greatly appreciate a clear response to my original query as well.

My apologies for any trouble I have caused.

Best,
Shio

[Rowana]

Shiokara,

You've not caused any troubles.

As to Darkstorme's answer, at least where the regular CA's are concerned (currently him, Ycleption and myself) our answer is the same, though you'll get far quicker resolution most of the time through the other two. For now my plate is very full.

~row