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Author Topic: Re: Vampires (see LORE)  (Read 478 times)

lonnarin

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« on: February 03, 2009, 03:47:24 am »
Nice entry!  Two things spring to mind.

1) "They not only detest the things a Blood Seraph do, they get actually hurt from them in many cases."  What exactly does this line mean?  It isn't really explained clearly what they do differently from their progenitors, and how it harms them.  Drinking blood? corrupting the innocent? Walking in Daylight?  Crossing water?  Or do you mean the Blood Seraphs directly hurt the vampires with their actions and the vampires resent them for it?

2) While it's noted garlic is not known to have an effect on them, mechanically in game it does cause some effect when you use garlic, I think ac vs undead or something along that nature.  This might be better worded as it not being known whether garlic effects them *more* than it does to any other forms of undead.

Other than that, excellent work. A few more things I was curious about are more items on the laundry list of vampire weaknesses/attributes.  Namely...

-Can they cross Running Water?
-Do mirrors show their reflection?
-Can they enter hallowed ground of goodly gods?
-Can they enter homes uninvited?
-Does just one bite turn a mortal into a vampire, a complete blood drain or is it a ritual? Can they feed without slaying or infecting?
-Fealty Between Vampires: are there "head vampires" that control their lessers, and what happens when you kill a head vampire, do the lessers just break free of control, or are they free of the curse?
-Is there any known method to reverse the curse for those infected by the lesser vampires?
 
The following users thanked this post: ShiffDrgnhrt

ShiffDrgnhrt

Re: Vampires
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 01:17:19 pm »
Sweetness!  But...  err....  What's a Seraph?  I know it's a word meaning Angel, but for Layo, what -is- a Seraph (other then the divine servants of Ilsare)?
 

EdTheKet

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 01:25:11 pm »
Moved posts, will reply later!
 

ShiffDrgnhrt

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2009, 01:34:44 pm »
K, sorry for posting in the History forum  >.<
 

EdTheKet

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2009, 01:38:33 pm »
Quote from: ShiffDrgnhrt
K, sorry for posting in the History forum  >.<


Ionnarin started it!
 

Marswipp

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2009, 04:57:11 pm »
LORE: Vampires // :p Sake for sake's sake. :p (In less obscure words: Linked for posterity and reference.)

Will silver effect the Blood Seraphs like the other undead?
Does the wooden steak have to be a specific wood type?
Playing D&D 3.5e, D&D 5e, Pathfinder, and exploring Starfinder through a VTT
 

Weeblie

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2009, 05:10:18 pm »
The biggest question of them all is of course still: "Are the answers (soon to be) given actually the real answers, or merely representative of what would be common (perhaps not accurate) knowledge?" :p
 

Hellblazer

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2009, 05:11:31 pm »
Don't know for Layo, but in regular vampire literature, the stake is just that. It doesn't have to be made of wood. It could be made out of silver too. But that's reg. literature.

darkstorme

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2009, 01:39:13 am »
Actually, in Stoker's Dracula, arguably the grandfather of all real vampire literature, it is specified to be a wooden stake.

Mind you, in Stoker's Dracula, to actually kill a vampire, after driving a stake through their heart, you had to cut off their head and stuff their mouth with garlic.

Nosferatu, a movie made based on the book (that attracted a lawsuit from Stoker's estate) also specified wood as the material that had to be used.

More recent literature may have specified otherwise, but I know that D&D's vampires draw from these two sources primarily.  Layo, I don't know about, but anything other than wood as stake material is pretty johnny-come-lately.
 

EdTheKet

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2009, 03:03:34 am »
All about vampires

Vampire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you'll see a vampire as we have now it a combination of many a folklore, spiritual belief, literature and movie.
 

ShiffDrgnhrt

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2009, 12:01:17 pm »
Thats our answer? "Go look at the a compilation of third party information?"  :(  I was hoping for a semi-unique spin for Layo, especially with your Blood Seraph thing...
 

Dorganath

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2009, 01:08:54 pm »
Quote from: ShiffDrgnhrt
Thats our answer? "Go look at the a compilation of third party information?"  :(  I was hoping for a semi-unique spin for Layo, especially with your Blood Seraph thing...

He linked that to show the collected mythology and well-known characteristics of vampires, as certain conventions were raised in the few posts just above that.  He's not trying to say "your answers are all here."  Our vampire lore is unique, and I am certain Ed will give full answers when he has time to address them properly.

Though to your question specifically, as the recent LORE entry states, the term "Seraph" may not persist, so what a Seraph is, beyond a heavenly servant, may not receive more definition.
 

EdTheKet

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2009, 01:44:34 pm »
Quote from: Dorganath
He linked that to show the collected mythology and well-known characteristics of vampires, as certain conventions were raised in the few posts just above that.  He's not trying to say "your answers are all here."  Our vampire lore is unique, and I am certain Ed will give full answers when he has time to address them properly.



Correct. I was trying to point out that the "default" vampiric assumptions actually do not come from one source (like Bram Stoker's novel for example), but that it is a creature shaped by many influences.

Quote
Though to your question specifically, as the recent LORE entry states, the term "Seraph" may not persist, so what a Seraph is, beyond a heavenly servant, may not receive more definition.

Also correct!
 

EdTheKet

Re: Vampires
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2009, 04:00:35 pm »
Quote from: lonnarin
Nice entry!


Thank you.

Quote


1) "They not only detest the things a Blood Seraph do, they get actually hurt from them in many cases."  What exactly does this line mean?  It isn't really explained clearly what they do differently from their progenitors, and how it harms them.  Drinking blood? corrupting the innocent? Walking in Daylight?  Crossing water?  Or do you mean the Blood Seraphs directly hurt the vampires with their actions and the vampires resent them for it?
It means that vampires not only detest the same things that the Blood Seraph detests, they are even harmed by those things.


Quote
2) While it's noted garlic is not known to have an effect on them, mechanically in game it does cause some effect when you use garlic, I think ac vs undead or something along that nature.  This might be better worded as it not being known whether garlic effects them *more* than it does to any other forms of undead.

That's how NWN treats the garlic. With future plans in mind, the text on this note will stand as it is, although a clarifying note could be added at the bottom.



Quote
-Can they cross Running Water?
-Do mirrors show their reflection?
-Can they enter hallowed ground of goodly gods?
-Can they enter homes uninvited?
-Does just one bite turn a mortal into a vampire, a complete blood drain or is it a ritual? Can they feed without slaying or infecting?
-Fealty Between Vampires: are there "head vampires" that control their lessers, and what happens when you kill a head vampire, do the lessers just break free of control, or are they free of the curse?
-Is there any known method to reverse the curse for those infected by the lesser vampires?


Quote
Are the answers (soon to be) given actually the real answers, or merely representative of what would be common (perhaps not accurate) knowledge?

I'm stating here the real answers. Whatever folklore, assumptions or myths people come up in game is fine. Feel free to find a vampire to experiment on and make him cross running water to see if he can ;)


Other questions are being discussed internally and will be addressed shortly.
 

Gulnyr

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2009, 05:10:39 pm »
Quote
They not only detest the things a Blood Seraph do, they get actually hurt from them in many cases.

For clarity, how about rewording it to say:
Quote
Not only do they detest the same things Blood Seraphs do, they actually get hurt by those things in many cases.
 
As Lonn's questions show, the original wording can be misread as meaning the vampires dislike and can be hurt by something the Blood Seraphs do.
 

EdTheKet

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2009, 02:27:49 am »
Quote from: Gulnyr
For clarity, how about rewording it to say:
 
As Lonn's questions show, the original wording can be misread as meaning the vampires dislike and can be hurt by something the Blood Seraphs do.


Fair enough!
 

EdTheKet

Re: Vampires (see LORE)
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2009, 03:56:52 am »
Please note, we reserve all rights to deviate from this answer at a later stage, especially about the one returning vampires to their previous state.

 -Can they cross Running Water?
Yes

-Do mirrors show their reflection?
Yes

-Can they enter hallowed ground of goodly gods?
Sure can.

-Can they enter homes uninvited?
Sure can.

-Does just one bite turn a mortal into a vampire, a complete blood drain or
is it a ritual? Can they feed without slaying or infecting?

One bit does not a vampire make, nor does complete drainage. The vampire can consciously decide whether they make somebody a vampire or not.
They can feed without slaying or infecting.

-Fealty Between Vampires: are there "head vampires" that control their
lessers, and what happens when you kill a head vampire, do the lessers just break free of control, or are they free of the curse?

There is no bond or control or domination. If one vampire serves another,
it's for similar reasons as why a human would serve another human. Out of fear, out of respect, for mutual gain, whatever.

-Is there any known method to reverse the curse for those infected by the
lesser vampires?
Yes, by yet-to-be-defined rituals known to the Ilsaran, Az'attan and Aeridinite churches.
However, it needs to be performed with a certain period which has not been defined yet. Else it can no longer be removed.
And note it is not a disease (like lycanthropy), infection or curse, anymore than being an orc, human or cow is one of those things.

- Will silver effect the Blood Seraphs like the other undead?
You will not meet a Blood Seraph in this incarnation of Layonara.

- Does the wooden steak have to be a specific wood type?
No, it doesn't have to be a specific wood type. It needs to be wood, preferably freshly cut as vampires detest everything coming from nature.
 

 

anything