Spellsword Question

[jadewillow]

I have not seen any specifics that would require a Spellsword to be a Sorcerer or Wizard, but I thought I would check. Lore says the requirement is Arcane level 2. Is there any reason a Bard could not apply for Spellsword provided they met these requirements?

Thanks.

[Dorganath]

No reason at all.  Bards can become Spellswords.

[Asmodean]

I'm sure you can answer this Dorg, as Connor is a sorc.  Do spellswords work like pale masters.

From LORE

Pale master levels do not affect spells known. Characters do not choose spells when leveling as a pale master, nor do pale master levels affect the number of spells that may be selected when leveling as a sorcerer or bard. Thus, the only way sorcerers and bards may make use of the higher-level spell slots granted by pale master levels is through metamagic. On the other hand, wizards can make use of the higher-level spell slots by learning new spells from scrolls, making the wizard a more powerful base class for pale masters.

This is a serious setback for any sorc or bard.  Iradril is a wizard, so is able to purchase scrolls ( for a small fortune... could have bought 2 houses by now! )

[Dorganath]

Well Sorcerers and Bards only learn spells when they level in one of those classes. That's true regardless of whether the Sorcerer/Bard multiclasses with Spellsword, Palemaster, etc.

So it's not really a setback at all, and neither class really gives Wizards any advantages that it doesn't give Sorcerers and Bards, just that Wizards are a more flexible class.

Sorcerers and Bards still benefit from the caster level synergy bonus for Spellsword levels, even if it doesn't give them more spells per day or more castings per day.

[Asmodean]

It would be a setback if you only had 10 levels of sorc, then took 10 levels of spellsword, then followed it with 20 levels of a non-casting class.

One great benefit of wizard / spellsword is that the spellsword class moves your spells per day higher as you level.  This corresponds DIRECTLY to the wizard spells per day table, INCLUDING spells / day of HIGHER LEVEL SPELLS.  

For example...

     A 10th level wizard who then leveled 1 level of spellsword would get an additional 3rd level spell AND a 6th level spell... as they would be considered an 11th level caster.  As a wizard, you could buy every 6th level scroll available and be able to cast a 6th level spell 1/day.

    On the contrary, an 11th level sorcerer who took 1 level of spellsword would only be able to cast an additional 5th level spell and could NOT cast a 6th level spell at all.

This means no Greater Stoneskin for a 12th level ( 11 sorc / 1 ss ) character.

When trying to level as spellsword prior to becoming an epic sorcerer or bard could become very difficult to do.  

Just posting this mainly for posterity sake, in the event any new folks happen to want to play a spellsword..   and also to clarify my "setback" comment to Dorg..  

[Dorganath]

I don't think that's accurate, Asmodean.

Bonus Spells:


Spellswords gain one caster level every other level after the first (respectively at 1,3,5,7,9) gaining all benefits of durations and improved spellcasting, but not any other benefits from their spellcasting class.

LORE: Spellsword

This refers to spell durations and power other such things in the spell that depend on caster level, but it does not grant them more spells or slots.  That is, unless something is seriously out of whack between documentation and implementation.

EDIT: I can safely say that through the first 5 levels of Spellsword, Connor never gained any spells, slots or castings/day.  What you might have seen is the effects of additional INT, perhaps.

[jadewillow]

So let me see if I got this right. Levels in Spellsword will grant additional Spell Levels which will include additional DC, duration, and/or damage for spells. However, it will not give additional spells per day, or spells known for a sorc/bard. Is that right?

Then when taking Bard or Sorc levels do Spellsword levels count towards current Spell Casting Level as it pertains to additional spells per day or spells known?

[ycleption]

So let me see if I got this right. Levels in Spellsword will grant additional Spell Levels which will include additional DC, duration, and/or damage for spells. However, it will not give additional spells per day, or spells known for a sorc/bard. Is that right?

I think you mean [lore]caster level[/lore] when you say spell levels (which may be part of your confusion, but otherwise, yes.

Then when taking Bard or Sorc levels do Spellsword levels count towards current Spell Casting Level as it pertains to additional spells per day or spells known?

Caster level (see link above) is a different concept from class levels in whatever spellcasting class you may have - so caster level does not directly pertain to additional spells at all: Spellsword does not add additional [strike]spells per day or[/strike] spells known.

[blonde]

Spellsword does not add additional spells per day or spells known.

Actually both palemaster and spellsword will add spells per day, just on half pace at each odd SS or PM level (1,3,5,7,etc.)

[Polak76]

Guys and gals.

Just thinking of spellswords at the moment and more interested in a Sorcerer/ SS.  Can anyone comment on this scenario:

Imagine a level 10 Sorc/10 SS.
effectively 10 spellswords levels is equivalent to 5 arcane caster levels.  Since we've established that SS's only seem to get better durations and damage we can assume that by level 20 the spellsword is simply a more powerful lvl 10 sorcerer.

IF we cross-over into epic and take the 21st level as a Sorcerer again, does the game mechanics recalculate and place the character effectively as a lvl 16 Sorcerer (thus choosing a bundle of new spells and gaining more pe day etc) or do they simply chose their next spell as a level 11 sorcerer (nothing really new)?

Hope this makes sense.

Cheers,
Polak76

[HooD!uM]

it does give you extra spell slot and higher lvl spells as a wizard..revone is proof of that as a lvl 5ftr/5wiz/4 SS i can cast lvl 5 spells.

[Dorganath]

IF we cross-over into epic and take the 21st level as a Sorcerer again, does the game mechanics recalculate and place the character effectively as a lvl 16 Sorcerer (thus choosing a bundle of new spells and gaining more pe day etc) or do they simply chose their next spell as a level 11 sorcerer (nothing really new)?

In terms of casting power and duration, that character would cast as a 16th level Sorcerer. I don't believe the game will suddenly give the character the spell choices of a 16th level Sorcerer on that level-up, however, because of the way Sorcerers learn spells (in contrast to how Wizards learn spells). I don't believe it will give you more spells/day either.

I have a 21 Sorc/6 Ftr/5 Spellsword, but when I took Spellsword levels, I already had 20 levels of Sorcerer, so unfortunately I can't answer the question definitively without cooking up a test character.

it does give you extra spell slot and higher lvl spells as a wizard..revone is proof of that as a lvl 5ftr/5wiz/4 SS i can cast lvl 5 spells.

Revone can only cast 4th level spells, at least according to the character file.  Even looking at the level math, since every two Spellsword levels are equivalent to one arcane caster level, the equivalent caster level would be 7th level, which would only give access to 4th level spells at best.

[miltonyorkcastle]

In your example, Polak, your character would have access to 8th level spell slots (meaning that if he/she knew an 8th level spell he/she could cast it), but he/she would not have access to learning 8th level spells until he actually has 16 levels in sorcerer. At 21st level, the character would be able to learn spells as an 11th level sorcerer, even though he could cast as a 16th level sorcerer. This is why wizards typically work better as Spellswords, as they can use scrolls to learn the higher (6th, 7th, 8th) level spells to fill those higher level slots, since like the sorcerer they would not be able to learn the higher level spells at their level-up.

[HooD!uM]

Bah...I meant to say 4th grrrr silly iPhone buttons.....

[Polak76]

In your example, Polak, your character would have access to 8th level spell slots (meaning that if he/she knew an 8th level spell he/she could cast it), but he/she would not have access to learning 8th level spells until he actually has 16 levels in sorcerer. At 21st level, the character would be able to learn spells as an 11th level sorcerer, even though he could cast as a 16th level sorcerer. This is why wizards typically work better as Spellswords, as they can use scrolls to learn the higher (6th, 7th, 8th) level spells to fill those higher level slots, since like the sorcerer they would not be able to learn the higher level spells at their level-up.

This was my thought exactly.
I know my wiz//palemasters inside out but had never tried one as a sorcerer.  They're very similar but the spellsword gets the added bonuses of durations and power so effectively it's not too bad.

Cheers,
Polak