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Author Topic: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC  (Read 2315 times)

thekevmon

Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« on: January 06, 2013, 11:51:56 am »
The requirements for Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon include weapon focus (greatsword), but that doesn't make much sense to me given the statement in the Pyrtechon Clergy Attire LORE page:

"Clerics of Pyrtechon show no particular favor toward one weapon type, seeing all as tools to achieve the ends of their dark god. Weapons are made to kill and are all considered to be worthy of use. Indeed, many Clerics of Pyrtechon are skilled in the use of a range of weapons, far beyond the followers of most other deities."

I can understand requiring weapon focus for deities with a chosen weapon, but for Pyrtechon it almost seems as though focusing on one weapon would be frowned upon if anything. I'm just curious as to why weapon focus in a greatsword is required to be a champion of a deity who shows no particular favor toward a greatsword. If there has to be an additional feat (compared to the standard NWN Blackguard), why not something like Great Cleave?

thanks
 

Dorganath

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2013, 12:14:29 pm »
The honest answer is that the people who originally designed and balanced this PrC are no longer associated with the world. Completing the honesty, the write-up for Pyrtechon has almost assuredly changed since then as well, which could have had an effect on their favored weapons (or lack thereof in this case).


Since all Champion PrCs here are based off the Champion of Torm PrC built into NWN, one of the requirements are having Weapon Focus in some specific melee weapon.  For Layonara, this requirement typicallyfollows the deity's favored weapon, and so I would guess that it either followed the favored weapon for Pyrtechon at the time or it was just chosen to have something specific there.

Since the Great Sword is probably the most damaging melee weapon that exists (base stats, of course), it makes a certain amount of sense to make this one the requirement of the Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon.
 

thekevmon

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2013, 12:42:18 pm »
My follow-up question: can it be changed? I know for a while these classes were only available to CE characters, but because that was not coded into the class NE was later allowed. Is the weapon focus (greatsword) coded, or can it be changed? Can exceptions be made? Or can it be changed to some other feat (again, great cleave stands out to me as a good choice)?
 

drakogear

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2013, 03:36:25 pm »
Well... this seems a bit odd... never noticed before myself... then again I've never really thought much of making a champion character.

From LORE: Unholy Champion, Holy Champion

From Wiki: Blackguard, Champion of Thorm

As it seems, unholy champion are made from Blackguard and Holy Champions from Champion of Thorm though what I find odd... is the difference in requirements.

Holy Champion:
BAB: +7
Feats: Weapon Focus
Alignment: Lawful Good

Unholy Champion:
BAB: +6
Skills: Hide 5 ranks
Feats: Cleave, Weapon Focus
Alignment: Neutral Evil

By what it seems... unholy Champion has more requirements then Holy Champion... plus the added weapon focus that blackguard does not originally have.

Now as for the weapon of choice (as it were) being a greatsword... mmmm... debatable in my opinion... in terms of chaos and destruction... I've always thought of greataxes as a better symbol.
 

Dorganath

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2013, 03:48:57 pm »
Naturally, it can be changed since it's custom content to start.  The questions are should it be changed and if so, how?

Given the present state of Pyrtechon with regards to the apparent lack of a favored weapon, I would say there's a fair argument to be made to loosen the requirement to any Weapon Focus feat (like in the original Champion of Torm), but I have a more difficult time seeing justification for changing it to something else completely. My reasoning there is that Weapon Focus gives an attack bonus on every attempt, and clearly one needs to be able to hit a target before it can be destroyed. However, I do come back around to the notion that a Greatsword will deliver the most amount of melee damage per strike out of all the other choices, and as such, it is the most "destructive" weapon available. So there's the simplified decision tree for you.

Administrative exceptions cannot be made for things that are mechanically enforced.  If the game prevents someone from even getting the choice to take Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon, there's nothing we can really do.  Such a change would have to come from an update, not a stroke of the proverbial pen.  Beyond that, we have historically not been very flexible on deviations for divinely-linked character classes.  While the Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon does not have the requirement of having a divine class first, by taking on such a mantle, one is still operating in Pyrtechon's name.
 

Dorganath

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2013, 03:51:00 pm »
Blackguard is not the basis for Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon.  Any assumptions or analysis based on this idea are simply wrong.

All "Champion" classes in Layonara are based on the Champion of Torm PrC (as I said in my first response) and modified to suit each deity appropriately.
 

drakogear

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2013, 07:27:18 pm »
Quote from: Dorganath
Blackguard is not the basis for Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon.  Any assumptions or analysis based on this idea are simply wrong.

All "Champion" classes in Layonara are based on the Champion of Torm PrC (as I said in my first response) and modified to suit each deity appropriately.


Ummmm... think you might want to look at the links in my last post. Note the unholy Champion is linked to Pyrtechons. All the things the Unholy Champion requires and has are exactly the same as the Blackguard.

Same for Hole Champion and Champion of Thorm.

At least whats stated in LORE are the same with the slight addition of weapon focus to Unholy Champion (blackguard). If that's wrong then LORE needs to be changed.
 

Dorganath

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2013, 08:08:35 pm »
Quote from: drakogear
Ummmm... think you might want to look at the links in my last post. Note the unholy Champion is linked to Pyrtechons. All the things the Unholy Champion requires and has are exactly the same as the Blackguard.

Same for Hole Champion and Champion of Thorm.

At least whats stated in LORE are the same with the slight addition of weapon focus to Unholy Champion (blackguard). If that's wrong then LORE needs to be changed.

You are confusing similarity with origin. I am simply trying to correct your assumption so that your further analysis can proceed on the right path.

You can show me all the links you want, but your core assumption is still wrong. I won't deny the fact that there are similarities, but I am telling you that the origin of the Unholy Champion PrCs is, in fact, the Champion of Torm PrC, and each was adapted to fit the specific deity in question. At best, it's a melding of the two, but the intent is to reflect the flavor of the Champion class, not the Blackguard.

Carry on...
 

Rowana

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 08:12:14 pm »
Quote from: drakogear
Ummmm... think you might want to look at the links in my last post. Note the unholy Champion is linked to Pyrtechons. All the things the Unholy Champion requires and has are exactly the same as the Blackguard.

Same for Hole Champion and Champion of Thorm.

At least whats stated in LORE are the same with the slight addition of weapon focus to Unholy Champion (blackguard). If that's wrong then LORE needs to be changed.

Regardless of the similarities between Champions and Blackguard mechanically speaking, All Champions are based on the original Champions PrC concept. Dorganath is not incorrect. The class's other details besides mechanical are also derived from the Champion base PrC, such as deity devotions, required favoured weapons matching the deities in question, etc. The process to obtain them, via WLDQs or CDQ series etc. It's all similar. Most of the differences come from Deity specific needs and the darker gods require different things than the more main stream gods. It's a hugely lore heavy PrC.

To be abundantly clear Unholy Champion does not in any way equal Blackguard. It's pretty blind to attribute the classes origins to mechanical requirements alone and try to call out one of the class's main contributors on a falsehood/confusion. What makes a Champion of any faith has way more to do with their devotion and sacrifice than a very few mechanical details.

~row
 

drakogear

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 10:16:18 pm »
*sighs* stubborn ignorance... Look I understand you and frankly about everyone don't like being called wrong, confused/falsehooded or w/e and I apologize. Even if the origins were based on Champion of Thorm, why then does the Unholy Champion have EXACTLY everything the Blackguard have? Even PnP Blackguard

Now, quite frankly I was talking more about the mechanical similarities. Deity requirements, descriptions and all that other role play stuff is simply just that... role play. Take all your classes and that of the base game and put them into another world with different LORE and there the role play requirements will likely be different. Are they the same class? Well, yeah... in a way yet they are also different. My saying that the Unholy Champions are the same as Blackguards in that they are the same (mechanically) yet different (role play wise) and frankly there are no blackguards in layo (at least none I know of) nor Champions of Thorm (let alone a god/deity or w/e named Thorm) So role play wise... what am I really comparing them to? :p

Anyways, enough with this somewhat slight derailing and lets get back to the original question which was:

Quote from: thekevmon
The requirements for Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon include weapon focus (greatsword), but that doesn't make much sense to me given the statement in the Pyrtechon Clergy Attire LORE page:

"Clerics of Pyrtechon show no particular favor toward one weapon type, seeing all as tools to achieve the ends of their dark god. Weapons are made to kill and are all considered to be worthy of use. Indeed, many Clerics of Pyrtechon are skilled in the use of a range of weapons, far beyond the followers of most other deities."

I can understand requiring weapon focus for deities with a chosen weapon, but for Pyrtechon it almost seems as though focusing on one weapon would be frowned upon if anything. I'm just curious as to why weapon focus in a greatsword is required to be a champion of a deity who shows no particular favor toward a greatsword. If there has to be an additional feat (compared to the standard NWN Blackguard), why not something like Great Cleave?

thanks


I suppose to sum that up... A deity that favors no one weapon at all... why then does he force his champions into using one particular weapon rather then letting choose there own?

Ok may have adlibed a bit there... suppose a bit of my own question in that as well then.

If weapon focus has to be required where the champion uses there deities Favorited weapon. Why not for Champions of Pyrtechon be allowed to focus in what ever weapon they choose themselves? After all Pyrtechon favors no one weapon.

Also, as for the greatsword being most destructive is as I said debatable.

Greatsword: 2d6 (2-12) 19-20x2

Greataxe: 1d12 (1-12) x3

Roughly the same damage though the axe does have a higher crit multiplier. Though if you could add the Falchion in there (DDO players claim to be the greatest 2-hander) you would have a higher crit range with 2x crit. So... debatable.
 

Dorganath

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 10:52:18 pm »
Quote from: drakogear
*sighs* stubborn ignorance

Oh really?  How interesting.

I am being neither stubborn nor ignorant. The seven years I have spent developing for Layonara and the close contact I have had with the people who shaped this world before that point gives me a particular insight that frankly you do not possess. I find your accusation ironic at best and insulting at worst.  Take your pick.

So, you can either choose to believe me and show some respect for the time, knowledge and insight I possess, or you can choose to continue on the path of continuing to insult someone who is trying to share his knowledge with you. It's your choice, but I, for one, am done with trying to educate you.

Carry on.
 

drakogear

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 11:13:47 pm »
Quote from: Dorganath
Oh really?  How interesting.

I am being neither stubborn nor ignorant. The seven years I have spent developing for Layonara and the close contact I have had with the people who shaped this world before that point gives me a particular insight that frankly you do not possess. I find your accusation ironic at best and insulting at worst.  Take your pick.

So, you can either choose to believe me and show some respect for the time, knowledge and insight I possess, or you can choose to continue on the path of continuing to insult someone who is trying to share his knowledge with you. It's your choice, but I, for one, am done with trying to educate you.

Carry on.


Ok, I'm sorry I said something I shouldn't have and I apologize. I didn't really mean it. This argument over these classes is just seeming a bit well... confusing to say the least I guess. I guess really I'm being the stubborn and ignorant one.

Just finding it a bit odd though how a class can be based off or have origins from one class yet have little in common with that class and have alot in common with another.
 

thekevmon

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2013, 12:40:41 pm »
Okay, this has gotten a little out of hand, but I would like to bring it back to a constructive level.

The character in question leveled up just now and is completely capable (mechanically, at least) of taking levels as an Unholy Champion. He does not have weapon focus. The class is selectable, and no weapon focus feat is listed as a requirement. Purely mechanically speaking, there is currently nothing stopping my character from taking levels in Unholy Champion (I did not actually level up as a champion, but I do not foresee any mechanical issues).

From a roleplay standpoint, I understand that the class is based on the Champion of Torm and that requires weapon focus (in the deity's favored weapon on Layonara). My interpretation of the lore on Pyrtechon is not that his followers focus on a greatsword, or even any weapon in particular. There is no favored weapon, and that being the case it doesn't make sense to me to have weapon focus as a requirement. Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with a champion having a weapon he is more skilled with than others, but there is no weapon that is favored by the divinity, and therefore it should not be required to take champion levels.

A Champion of Toran trains with a longsword, learns the combat style and fighting techniques associated with it. This makes sense, as the organization of the Toran religion suggests that you would likely be trained by superiors, all of whom would use longswords and would encourage the use of longswords. Champions of Vorax would use a battleaxe for a similar reason. Champions of Corath, a shortsword for a similar reason.

There is no favored weapon for Pyrtechon, and that being the case it does not make sense for weapon focus to be a requirement for the class. My interpretation is that a Pyrtechonite is the type to, at any given time, be carrying no less than three weapons. This is the principle I have stuck to with my character. The type who always has another weapon to use if he feels the situation favors it. Someone who is armed to the teeth, always. I feel that a more general combat feat is preferable to any weapon focus. Again, I'm gonna plug Great Cleave because I think it makes the most sense: Pyrtechonites want people to die, and die quickly. If a champion is surrounded by some valiant (but stupid) group of commoners trying to save their land from certain destruction, he should be able to strike them all down almost instantaneously without a moment's hesitation. Great Cleave is a feat dedicated to slaughtering hordes of weaklings quickly; personally, I think it's a better fit than weapon focus.

In summary, there does not appear to be any mechanical backing to the weapon focus requirement. Other churches have organization, and that helps the senior members mentor the younger members in the use of their chosen weapons. Pyrtechon has no such organization, and from my perspective and interpretation it does not make sense to have weapon focus as a requirement for the Unholy Champion class.

Thank you.
 

drakogear

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2013, 03:55:48 pm »
Hm, well... since the class is based/origined from CoT in that every champion regardless of deity has to have a weapon focus. Allowing Pyrtechon champions to be without a WF might seem a bit to far of an exception... even if replacing the feat... or so I'm assuming.

My suggestion... don't have it be restricted to just one weapon. Pyrtechon favors no weapon and as Kevmon said, his character is always armed to the teeth which would mean he has many fun and exciting ways to slaughter people. Pyrtechon may not favor a single weapon though his champions might have there own favorite weapon of destruction

*Pyrtechon champion talks about his own favorite weapon* Heheh, yes I have my trusty old heavy mace. *pets heavy mace like it was a kitten* Isn't she perty? Her name is... Helga... After my wife... well... after she smashed my wife... over... and over... and over again. Yeah sure I have axes and maybe a few daggers... a crossbow or two... Oh, but Helga here... *laughs maniacally, swinging his heavy mace around, destroying the interviewing room and smashing everyone like pinatas* Bash! Wack! Smash! yeahahahahaha!!!

Ok... might have when a little uh... crazy there... just a little... but you get the idea right... or uh... do you need Helga here to help you?
 

Dorganath

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2013, 04:20:04 pm »
Quoting myself and adding emphasis...

Quote from: Dorganath
Given the present state of Pyrtechon with regards to the apparent lack of a favored weapon, I would say there's a fair argument to be made to loosen the requirement to any Weapon Focus feat (like in the original Champion of Torm), but I have a more difficult time seeing justification for changing it to something else completely. My reasoning there is that Weapon Focus gives an attack bonus on every attempt, and clearly one needs to be able to hit a target before it can be destroyed. However, I do come back around to the notion that a Greatsword will deliver the most amount of melee damage per strike out of all the other choices, and as such, it is the most "destructive" weapon available. So there's the simplified decision tree for you.

It is exactly for the reason of consistency with the other Champion variants that I believe that there should be some Weapon Focus requirement.  Ditching it completely goes against the intent and flavor of the class, in my opinion. Opening it up to any Weapon Focus is a reasonable thing, but I can also argue the justification for keeping it as Weapon Focus: Greatsword.

Simply because Pyrtechon doesn't indicate a weapon preference doesn't mean that his followers, clergy and champions cannot focus upon one or more weapons particularly. It means rather they are free to do so without restriction...or not.  Regardless of deity and regardless of weapon, a Champion should be something more than just proficient in any given weapon, and that's where Weapon Focus comes in, both in a mechanical sense and an RP sense.
 

thekevmon

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2013, 07:30:19 pm »
A champion is more than a sword or an axe; a champion is not simply the weapon of his god, he is the harbinger, the earthly messenger, the mortal embodiment of his God's very dogma. To be a champion, of any god, is not about being a soldier in their service; that's what paladins and fighters are for. To be a champion is something else entirely.

Quote
A Champion should be something more than just proficient in any given weapon, and that's where Weapon Focus comes in, both in a mechanical sense and an RP sense.


Yes and no. Weapon focus is exactly what the name suggests: the focused training in a single weapon, favoring it above all the others. But a Champion of Pyrtechon does not focus; he destroys. He takes whatever is at hand, whether he has trained with it or not, and destroys. He kills, he maims, he burns, he bludgeons, he slashes, he pierces, he decapitates, and he does it all indiscriminately, whether with a greatsword taken from the dying hands of his enemy or a broken piece of chain some fool thought could restrain his fury.

Quote
Weapon Focus gives an attack bonus on every attempt, and clearly one needs to be able to hit a target before it can be destroyed. However, I do come back around to the notion that a Greatsword will deliver the most amount of melee damage per strike out of all the other choices, and as such, it is the most "destructive" weapon available.


True. [LORE]Point Blank Shot[/LORE] also yields an attack (and damage) bonus, undoubtedly raising the destructive potential of any archer, yet it's not required for Champion. Also, while a greatsword has a more consistent damage output, when the critical range is factored in greataxe almost certainly overtakes it in terms of damage output, but that's neither here nor there.

Quote
I believe that there should be some Weapon Focus requirement. Ditching it completely goes against the intent and flavor of the class, in my opinion.


As stated previously, the Champion will use whatever is around to destroy. To support this, a quote from the [LORE]Champions: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon[/LORE] page: "[it was] not so much a sword in its hand than a misshapen lump of sharpened steel." The weapon used for said destruction simply doesn't matter to a Champion, as long as they are carrying forth the Destroyer's will anything will do, as is evident from this passage. A proper Champion should be able to destroy anyone with anything.

Quote
Simply because Pyrtechon doesn't indicate a weapon preference doesn't mean that his followers, clergy and champions cannot focus upon one or more weapons particularly. It means rather they are free to do so without restriction...or not.


Or not. Versatility is valued by church and Champion alike, and as such they should not feel any need to focus on one weapon over any other. Focusing on a weapon is a liberty that a Champion should be allowed to take, but that should not be expected and certainly not required.

Quote
It is exactly for the reason of consistency with the other Champion variants that I believe that there should be some Weapon Focus requirement. Ditching it completely goes against the intent and flavor of the class, in my opinion. Opening it up to any Weapon Focus is a reasonable thing, but I can also argue the justification for keeping it as Weapon Focus: Greatsword.


Look, I understand what you are trying to say, but the fact is that the lore surrounding Pyrtechon and his Champions does not match the requirements for the class. Maybe Great Cleave isn't the right feat either, I'm open to suggestions, but at its core it seems obvious that weapon focus is not correct. Weapon focus makes sense for Toran. Weapon focus makes sense for Vorax. Weapon focus makes sense for Corath. In my opinion, there is no roleplay-related reason to keep weapon focus as a requirement for the Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon, and to require it would go against the intent and flavor of the class.

On a related note, correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge I currently have the only active character dedicated to Pyrtechon. Pyrtechon has not been given much love over the years, as I think I also owned one of maybe three clerics of him I have ever seen in my tenure at Layonara, none of whom have amounted to anything worthy of note. I have also been involved in the Corath church a little bit over the years and have seen how much that has changed and improved due to input from players much like myself. I would love the opportunity to finally give Pyrtechon a fighting chance among players in this world, both as a player and a character.
 

Polak76

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2013, 08:06:25 pm »
Bugger that...a champion of destruction should carry a weapon that makes the most mess.  Go for a spikey splattering weapon like a morning star, Flail or war mace!!
 

Dorganath

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2013, 08:58:34 pm »
What still seems to be separated in your mind is that being a Pyrtechonite trumps being a Champion.  It does not. This is an inclusive situation.  There are requirements for being a Pyrtechonite, and there are requirements for being a Champion.

Take two characters with identical builds except one has Weapon Focus in some weapon and the other does not.  Which is going to be more effective? with that weapon? The answer is simple.  I'm conceding here that the choice of weapon for an Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon is probably irrelevant. However, if such an individual is going to be a Champion of Pyrtechon, it behooves them to be as destructive as possible. Again, this can be expressed by choosing the weapon with the highest average damage per strike, but setting that aside and keeping the idea that Pyrtechonites have no specific favored weapon, the most effective Champion is going to be one that focuses on the nuances and particulars of one specific weapon rather than splattering his training over many.

For a Chaotic Pyrtechonite it's not about "focusing" so much as favoring and becoming very effective with a particular weapon.

A Jack-of-all-Trades is a master of none.

This idea is not in conflict with the lore surrounding Pyrtechon, nor is it in conflict with the lore surrounding champions. Pyrtechon would want his Champions to be the best destroyers possible, and a mechanical manifestation of that would be requiring a Weapon Focus feat.

Point Blank Shot is not a valid comparison here, because it does not apply to melee weapons. Champions are primarily a melee-focused class.

I really do understand your arguments, and I find value in them. I also suspect this one little feat may be upsetting a planned progression for a character of yours toward UCoP.  If this is true, that's fine.  I get it.  But I also have to wonder why not also debate the merits of 5 ranks in Hide. Why would the Destroyer's Champion need or want to hide? Is he only to destroy in stealth? I doubt it. Lore-wise, that makes less sense than the original complaint, don't you think?

Quote from: Polak76
Bugger that...a champion of destruction should carry a weapon that makes the most mess.  Go for a spikey splattering weapon like a morning star, Flail or war mace!!

Sure! And in doing so, you would also want to figure out how to make the biggest mess possible with that weapon, so Weapon Focus fits well.

So again, keeping a Weapon Focus requirement for all Champions (regardless of deity) seems to make a lot of sense, because it's consistent for Champions. If we're going to take that away, we shouldn't call them Champions, but that seems kind of a big and unnecessary shift for such a minor matter, when most or all of the lore matters related to UCoP can be solved simply by opening up the requirement to any Weapon Focus, not a specific one.

Though I would say...I would laugh a lot if someone tried to make an UCoP with Weapon Focus: Dagger...unless that someone was an over-caffeinated dual-wielding jackrabbit with a meth habit. ;)
 

Polak76

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2013, 09:24:14 pm »
Just for the record, my comment was meant to be light hearted but thanks for your insight.  :)

But I totally agree with you Dorg and definately don't have a problem with weapon focus.  You can make a case for any class out there but where would the buck stop?  I can make a case for Champions of Corath or even clerics of Corath having a favoured weapon as a short sword.  I've always prefered a dagger personally, it's more easily concealed than a short sword, easily poisoned and certainly represents the sacrificial aspect of the diety.  Moreso it saves me a feat when I make a cleric. ;)  But this is about Pyrtechon so I won't go off on a tangent.

All this talk makes me want to write up my pyrtechon cleric I've been thinking about for a while.

cheers,
Polak.
 

drakogear

Re: Unholy Champion of Pyrtechon PrC
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2013, 09:43:20 pm »
Quote from: Dorganath
Though I would say...I would laugh a lot if someone tried to make an UCoP with Weapon Focus: Dagger...unless that someone was an over-caffeinated dual-wielding jackrabbit with a meth habit. ;)


Not necessarily. *Stands by a large crane at the docks, draws dagger and cuts the rope, large crate falls and a well setuped chain reaction ensues resulting in a series of explosions, things falling over and many people dying* Heheh, I love this dagger.

And I love over exaggerating things. :p
 

 

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