Vorax Alignment

[drakogear]

Ok, I know the gods work in mysterious ways yada yada but least I recall last time I played and looked through the deities Vorax was Neutral Good. So my question... when did he become Lawful Good? Also... What even makes him at all Lawful?

In my mind Lawfulness has mostly been the alignment of one who would mostly be a diplomat and/or negotiator and Chaotic is more the Militant/war monger. In fact alot of the time I've thought of Vorax I would think him Chaotic rather then neutral.

For instance:

Governs: Battle, War, Vigilance
Mantras: Active, Belligerent

Though he also Governs Valor and Bravery and has Honest and Ordered as his other two Mantras but all in all that would would make him at least Neutral.

[Dorganath]

Vorax has always been Lawful Good.  I'm not sure what you saw before, but Vorax's alignment has not changed. Even his earliest version on LORE reflects this.

As for what makes him Lawful, he professes a strong code of conduct, both morally and in battle.  Look at the full set of things he governs and his mantras, rather than just the subset that you posted:

• Governs: Battle, War, Valor, Bravery, Vigilance

These last three speak of a code of honor that are applied most strongly to the first two.

• Mantras: Active, Belligerent, Honest, Ordered

The last one, Ordered, is a very Lawful trait.   Activity and belligerence are not somehow excluded from Lawful. The former implies he prefers to act rather than sit around, and the latter just means he has a gruff and direct way of communicating.


From his dogma:

Let bravery, valor, and honorable war define you. Maintain and uphold the morals of your people.  Do not allow pacifism or idleness to infect you; for any ideal worth  having, is worth fighting for. Idle minds are fertile grounds for  schism. Idle hands become soft and unsuited for battle. You are the  embodiment of what it is to be a dwarf--be eternally vigilant of this  fact and do not allow the lax and decadent ways of other races to  influence your heritage.

The bolded text are examples of Vorax's strong moral code. It isn't really all that flexible.  These sorts of traits are hallmarks of a [LORE]Lawful Good[/LORE] alignment.

[drakogear]

Hm, guess my sleepiness is making my mind a little fussy... kinda thought he was neutral at one point... oh well.

As for his Governs and Mantras.

Battle, War and Vigilance together sounds to me almost like someone who really enjoys fighting... not a very lawful ideal in my opinion. Valor and Bravery... well cant really be a person of war and battle unless you are now can you? Additionally Valor and Bravery mean pretty much the same thing. Courage in the face of danger.

Active and Belligerent opposes Passive and Peaceful though suppose the other two counter balance that. Additionally the definition of Belligerent is an individual, group, country or other entity which acts in a hostile manner, such as engaging in combat. (from Wikipedia and may other definition sites)

As for the dogma... don't really see how it define lawfulness. bravery, valor, and honorable war? Even a NG and CG person can show Bravery, Valor and Honor in battle.

[miltonyorkcastle]

someone who really enjoys fighting

It can be interpreted that way, and I do believe some dwarves do interpret it that way, but it could also be interpreted as considering war and combat to be important and valuable, but not necessarily enjoyable. Combat for the Voraxians is more ritualized. Marching into battle for a Voraxian is kind of like attending Mass for a Catholic or performing Salah for a Muslim. It is obligatory, follows a rigid set of rules, and is in fact an important part of worship.

Vorax is all about following the rules and protecting tradition. Combat is a tradition for Voraxians, and if a Voraxian breaks the rules of honorable combat, he does so at the extreme displeasure of clan, race, and deity. Ritual, tradition, rules, codes of conduct, obligation- these are all hallmarks, as Dorg suggests, of a lawful deity.

Moreover, none of those things- war, battle, fighting- are considered inherently chaotic (or good, or evil, or lawful, for that matter) for the world of Layo. Of course, that doesn't stop us from playing characters who may believe that those things are inherently evil/chaotic.

[Dorganath]

Saying Vorax "enjoys" fighting is an oversimplification and misses the point.

Vorax is all about honorable combat.  Voraxians are not perpetually at war in the literal sense, but if they go to war or engage in combat, they do so with honor, bravery, valor and so on. Vorax (and his followers) don't just go around starting fights because they like to fight.

Do not confuse "lawful" and "Lawful". While similar, Lawful is primarily about order and a code of conduct rather than a strict adherence to laws of a given geographical or political boundary.  So while someone who picks fights just because they enjoy fighting would indeed not be a very lawful thing, nor would it really be Lawful, that is not what Vorax's character is.

You're focusing on the wrong aspects and picking convenient definitions.  Vorax's Lawfulness comes from his belief in and adherence to a strict moral and ethical code. He has a code of honor and sticks to it like glue.  There would be no honor, for example, in striking down the unarmed child of an enemy.

[Maestro3P]

The description of the [LORE]alignments[/LORE] helped me a great deal to find out how Layonara interprets them.

[Dorax Windsmith]

*Gunder clears his throat*

Aye lad, Vorax' power come from Honor, Bravery, an' Vigilence.  Oi'll speak wif ye on da subjec' if'n ya loike.  Der be many wif honor who know da ways a Vorax...Griff, Argali come quick ta moind.

[Shiokara]

Oy! 'Oo s'ed we The Father'o Battle ain' nay any respec' fer tha laws? Now Oi may be a Nokkadrumbaer, meanin' we live ou'ssoide Brenuth taxes an' tha loike, but Oi'm still a Nokkadrumbaer, meanin' Oi'm part'a ma fam'ly loike. An' Oi moight go mad a bit in a foight, but 'aht's only 'cause Oi been trained inna tradition of an Axe Idiot ba gud ol' Grenna Rockbasher 'erself!