SC in relation to domain powers

[Pibemanden]

I just had a small question about spellcraft.. Since I usually play arcane casters I have not really focused that much on what divine casters use it for(Apart from the Lucindites of course). So I just wanted to know if there is a general agreement that it is used to further the powers that people can draw from their diety. That is perform more miraculous feats than just your spells and so on?

[miltonyorkcastle]

I think you'll find the answer to this dependent on the GM and his/her style.

For instance, even for arcane casters, I don't treat SC as the only measure of how a mage might complete an altered spell. I treat SC as simply the academic understanding of the Al'noth and its applications. That understanding can give you insight into how to successfully alter a spell, but a character's level and any spell focuses are going to directly affect whether or not the altered spell can even be cast by the mage in question. Even if someone knows how to cast an altered spell doesn't mean he/she can control the Al'noth well enough to cast the spell. So I regularly make players roll combinations of SC checks, caster-level checks, wisdom checks, etc. Other GMs simply roll it all into a single SC check.

Applying this to your question, I wouldn't treat SC as any different for divine casters. It is the academic understanding of the Al'noth, and even though the spells cast by divine classes are not cast in an arcane manner, they still utilize the Al'noth and therefore the effects can be categorized and studied. However, I would say that a divine spell is not alterable via the same methods used with arcane casting, and this is because divine spells aren't crafted by the character, as is the case with arcane casters, but are instead crafted by the deity and channeled through the caster via a prayer. SC would help the cleric understand how his deity-given magic works, what sort of magic it is, etc., but because the caster does not craft the spell, SC is useless for altering a divine spell. It is not useless, however, in giving a divine caster insight into what sort of magic to ask from his deity, but then it is up to the deity as to whether or not a spell is altered or a new spell is granted for any given situation.

So, unlike with wizards, sorcs, and bards, the divine caster does not manually adjust spells; they must pray for the altered spell. I would say that praying for spells has nothing to do with SC. Of course, other GMs might play it differently, and that's just fine.

[Pibemanden]

Thank you for your reply Milty.

My main issue with buffing SC on Sebair is that he isn't really into the finer details behind the Al'Noth. He is though a follower of his godess, and therefore he would also like to draw on her powers.

So I would like a few more inputs, should I put points in SC or should I just leave it at zero for divine feats?

[Dorganath]

Personally, I've never had divine characters use Spellcraft for altering a spell in some way. I generally use some combination of WIS and the creativity of their prayer, depending on the situation and the request.

I have seen plenty of divine characters use Spellcraft on quests, particularly when trying to identify a given magic.  They're generally not as good at identifying/analyzing arcane magic as arcane characters, even with the same or better rolls, because it's a different sort of magic than what they know.  Likewise, arcane casters aren't as good at analyzing divine magic for a similar reason.

So should a divine caster wish to analyze some magic, he/she may be able to tell if it's arcane or divine (don't roll a 1!!!!) and if it's divine, perhaps some additional, more detailed knowledge can be gained.  If it's arcane, then only the most basic information about the magic will be known. I would make some extra allowance for Lucindite divine characters, though all other things being equal, the arcane caster still has the advantage over arcane magics.

[drakogear]

Hm, guess I have a question on this myself now. Been having thoughts on various character concepts that neither arcane or divine caster. Well, unless you count a rouges casting from scrolls and wands and such using UMD.

Was thinking in combination with ether a rouges UMD or  even some other class that takes SC (being a cross-class skill) (reason: raised in Spellgurd or some place were magic is somewhat a daily sight though never quit learned to cast any... yet) What kind of RP could they do with it?

Also just wanting to point out as it says in the skill description. Every 5 points grants a +1 to all saving throws against spells.

So in a way I'd say a rouge could then identify an enemy caster about to cast a fireball and thus anticipate and dodge the blast more effectively. (IE Reflex Save) Though thats purely game mechanics.

[miltonyorkcastle]

So in a way I'd say a rouge could then identify an enemy caster about to cast a fireball and thus anticipate and dodge the blast more effectively.

And that's also how it would be RP'd. Since SC is the knowledge and understanding of spells, how they are cast, how they function, and what they look like, your character could actually, even without being a caster, talk academically about magic, identify it, and even make suggestions as to what someone might do in response to a spell or to alter a spell, even if the character can't actually cast any magic.

[drakogear]

Hm, interesting. thanks.