The World of Layonara

The NWN Persistent World => Bugs => Bug Reports => Topic started by: Chazzler on November 29, 2012, 02:51:42 pm

Title: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Chazzler on November 29, 2012, 02:51:42 pm
Location: The Great Rift, Central, City at bottom, right past the bridges.
 
Reproducable:
 
Verified:

Description: The first spawn at the Great Rift's city has given 5-6 mages per spawn lately with the current server being "up". The first time Unther and Dan Hardhammer went there (Rift was untouched, traps and all that), the spawn worked as usual.
Having 5-6 mages in the spawn pretty much makes it impossible for any level 20-ish party to cross the place alive, what with them having premonition and tossing 40-60 damage dealing Meteor Showers and Horrid Wiltings in unison.
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Guardian 452 on November 29, 2012, 03:12:51 pm
Another SS gone for Dot, from being teamed up on by said mages. :(

Party was:
Sein (level 22)
Dot (level 20)
Deacon (level 16)
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: cbnicholson on November 29, 2012, 03:29:38 pm
That has always been a very nasty fight, but I have to back Chazzler up, there was more than one mage at that spawn when I was through there with DB after the update.  The rest of the party was lvls 20-25.  DB was the high one at 28.
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Dorganath on November 29, 2012, 11:41:37 pm
Servers restarted.  Please verify spawns whenever possible or convenient....if possible with the same/similar group.
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Chazzler on December 05, 2012, 10:41:45 am
The doors and gates were opened and traps were disabled / taken away in the Great Rift today, and there were 4-5 mages again at the spawn.
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: xsweetpeaxs on December 05, 2012, 11:38:08 am
I just want to let you know the traps and doors were unlocked because Xiomara and Shyntyl went down there when the server first resetted. I think we were the first ones. Now I don't know if the traps were suppose to "rearmed" or not.

As for the number of mages, I am not sure. It is chaotic and all I remember is fighting and trying to stay alive. Shyntyl had multiple storms up and it was just chaos! It is hard but doable if you are fully buffed, with spell resistance, foe, etc etc etc.
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: wild_down_under on December 05, 2012, 11:51:18 am
Ummmm.... she forgot to mention we did die twice :\\  but unluckily no SS was lost. So I guess it is hard but doable :D
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Dorganath on December 05, 2012, 12:48:00 pm
As a point of information...

Given the descriptions, I don't think this area was changed in the last update. Only those areas which were previously dead magic areas were altered.
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: mumbles on December 05, 2012, 03:17:58 pm
the main point is the spawns seem to change , you can go in withe the same lvl group range on two different occassion , the first time you might come up against 2 mages and drow wpm , then ive been in with exactly the same group on a different occassion , and theres been 5 mages
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Dorganath on December 05, 2012, 03:46:10 pm
Quote from: mumbles
the main point is the spawns seem to change , you can go in withe the same lvl group range on two different occassion , the first time you might come up against 2 mages and drow wpm , then ive been in with exactly the same group on a different occassion , and theres been 5 mages

I understand the main point. I also do not doubt your observations.  My comment was just meant as information: That the area (and thereby the spawn in question) did not change in the last update when I changed other Great Rift areas.  

If the spawn is behaving in this way it is therefore very likely that it was a) designed this way and b) has potentially been doing this for a very long time, meaning since the last time it got any attention at all, which I believe was 2-3 years ago minimum.  Whether that is a "bug" or not remains to be seen.
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: xsweetpeaxs on December 05, 2012, 05:14:30 pm
I don't mean to step on anyone's toes but if the spawn changes doesn't that make it funner? I mean you don't know what you are going to get O.o  If that was by design then I think it's great. It makes it more unpredictable and exciting :D
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Dezza on December 07, 2012, 02:27:02 am
I can attest to the fact that it does in fact spawn upto 5 mages almost seemingly at random.  Sasha lost 5 SS just crossing this city in her time mining in the Rift.

It was my own fault but I did find the difficulty exciting!
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Dorganath on December 07, 2012, 08:34:43 am
@Dezza, So it's been like that for a while?
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Dezza on December 07, 2012, 10:24:10 pm
I would say...yes!
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Guardian 452 on December 07, 2012, 11:46:01 pm
I'm all for more fun and excitement. Getting slaughtered by an Over Powered spawn isn't my idea of fun. .... yours? Then you know right where to go! lol

Remove the SS system and sure I'd have no problem with a random spawn that sometimes would be so strong you stood no chance.

Spawn functioning as designed and acceptable for area?

or

Spawn needs adjusted?

thanks
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Dorganath on December 07, 2012, 11:59:53 pm
It's not really random. It follows rules set down by the encounter parameters. It may seem random due to party composition and things, but there's no "every once in a while, make it overwhelming" setting.

Also, please don't use bug report threads to soapbox for other issues. ;)
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Guardian 452 on December 08, 2012, 12:03:55 am
Soapbox moved aside
Quote from: Guardian 452

Spawn functioning as designed and acceptable for area?

or

Spawn needs adjusted?

thanks
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: xsweetpeaxs on December 08, 2012, 12:22:07 am
Personally, the spawn randomness reminds me of Thunderpeak Misted village area. When you enter the village, each spawn has 3 enemies to kill. Of the 3 enemies, there could be spear guy, bard singing guy, the axe wielding dwarf guy, the goblin, or the "witch" that zap your strength with her sneak attack. Depending on the randomness, you'll get different combinations of those types for every spawn. If you are unlucky, you get 3 witches, where probably one of them will be stabbing you from behind and your strength will be zapped in no time.

Similarly for the Great Rift first spawn at the city, it appears to be random combinations consisting between the mages, weaponmaster, and the rogues. Depending on your 'luck' you'll get different types. As mumbles has said, different spawns for same group at different times. Keep in mind this is the dark elf's home/city afterall. Of course it will be extra protected at times. Additionally, the nice CNRs that are down there should be protected. With that said, I personally think the spawn is working as designed; it shouldn't be a walk in the park down there ;)
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: davidhoff on December 08, 2012, 02:46:12 am
Just to add my Rift experience:  That spawn has always been the same for my characters (1 mage per group with some fighter types) and I've been down there quite a bit, with different parties, with different characters and when my char's were at various levels.

As far as spawn randomness, I think its great and a nice spice.  But, I think that it can be dangerous and unfair if we're not told which ones will spawn random, because we will "expect" the game mechanics to act the exact same way and engage the spawn accordingly.
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Dezza on December 08, 2012, 06:32:16 am
Quote from: davidhoff
Just to add my Rift experience:  That spawn has always been the same for my characters (1 mage per group with some fighter types) and I've been down there quite a bit, with different parties, with different characters and when my char's were at various levels.

As far as spawn randomness, I think its great and a nice spice.  But, I think that it can be dangerous and unfair if we're not told which ones will spawn random, because we will "expect" the game mechanics to act the exact same way and engage the spawn accordingly.


So does that mean you'd be unhappy if a GM went ahead of you and mixed up a spawn to provide some stimulation to an otherwise second by second planned trip? Hmmmm...
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Chazzler on December 08, 2012, 07:11:31 am
Stop squabbling with each other and keep to the point please.
The thing is, that the spawn is not Random per se.
The spawn for the first time triggered is just like the others in the city beyond the transition after the first spawn.
The First time you try to go through that spawn, you get the 1 mage (or perhaps 2 if you're really, really high level), with added Shadowblade and Warrior named dark elves.
The second time you go through that area and all the times after that (2nd, 3rd, 4th etc) you get 4-6 mages and a couple of the Shadowblade and Warrior types.

The other spawns beyond the area transition continue to spawn a Single mage, and then Shadowblade and Warriors.
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Dorganath on December 08, 2012, 11:22:13 am
My last words on the subject:

I've located the spawn in question.  The mages are properly marked as "unique" so unless NWN is glitching (and we have zero control over that), there should never be multiple mages spawning there.

There are three possible creatures that can spawn there. All three are the same CR.

I do not care for the way the last builder of that area designed the spawn's parameters. It really allows for zero flexibility and scaling, and I'm left to wonder if this isn't part of the problem, though the same construction appears elsewhere without issue.

I'll make a couple of suggestions to Script Wrecked for adjustment to see if it makes a difference.

Quote from: Chazzler
Stop squabbling with each other and keep to the point please.

Couldn't agree more.

Bug report threads are not debate threads. Any side commentary that doesn't directly add to the understanding and resolution of the problem being reported is unhelpful and unnecessary. If you want to debate a side-tangent, take it elsewhere.

And following my own advice...

http://forums.layonara.com/layonara-server/286412-difficulty-randomness-changes.html
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Dezza on December 08, 2012, 04:13:32 pm
I think what is occuring is the mages wander. So when you enter the city they spawn immediately and begin to wander and they have long sight so you potentially encounter several mages close together which may seemingly feel like they have come from one spawn.

This is after carefully thinking back to the many trips where Sasha tried to break through there.

For what its worth I like the area as it is. You need to overcome quite dangerous situations to reach what is a potential treasure trove of ore in adamantium and cobalt.

As Chazzler says, once you get past the city the rest is easy for the levle of char going through there.

Perhaps it is worth bringing one vein of adamantium before the city for those lower levels or soloists who'd never have a chance to go past the city?
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Chazzler on December 09, 2012, 04:40:14 am
I disagree on the Dezza's point of wandering monsters unfortunately.
There is quite probably just one spawn triggered at the entrance to the city just past the bridges, for there is an area transition just after them (and the spawns further away are probably triggered after entering that transition and advancing a bit).

On a side note, last night, twice, the spawns worked as before, just like the spawns beyond the place I made the bug report of, the group for the 1st time was some 6-7 people, and on the 2nd time it was 5 people.

The other times it has been less than 5 people IIRC, weird.
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Guardian 452 on December 09, 2012, 10:25:08 am
The time we got sacked by all the mages they came from one spawn, yep.

Odd that a lower level (22, 20, & 16) & a group with only 3 people spawned so many mages. That's why the bug post was made *nods* :)

So need another small lower level group to test the spawn a few times. I will be glad to test this again... but I'd like to have a GM present observing, or in party playing... I'm not giving up any more SS's to a bug.
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Dorganath on December 09, 2012, 02:18:56 pm
Quote from: Guardian 452
I'm not giving up any more SS's to a bug.

Soul Strands never have to be permanently lost due to bugs. It's just a matter of determining whether it is truly a bug or not that can be the key question.

Regardless, legitimate, sanctioned testing need not be feared, but having a GM present is a good idea.

As mentioned above, I made a couple of suggestions to Script Wrecked about this. There's nothing obviously wrong about the spawn to make it behave like what is reported, so what we're looking at is some possible combination of factors that's causing NWN to glitch.  I can tell you with great certainty that the parameters of this spawn are no different than those in the next area where everything is reportedly working perfectly.
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: davidhoff on December 09, 2012, 07:56:24 pm
There is another place in the Deep near some fire elementals, that sometimes triggers 4-5 "Darkelf Magic Users of the Rift" and other times triggers dark elf fighter types only.  So it may be something to do with that type of spawn changing vs the pary type/makeup.
Title: Re: The Great Rift, first spawn at the City
Post by: Guardian 452 on December 09, 2012, 11:02:22 pm
Yeah that's why I was saying check the spawns a few times with grpups of similar size and levels.