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Author Topic: Request to add Class Spellsword  (Read 1484 times)

silverblades

Request to add Class Spellsword
« on: September 14, 2017, 03:06:28 pm »
Name: SibbicaiLogin ID: silverbladesclass: WizardCurrent level: 20race: humanDiety: LucindaOriginal submission: http://layonara.com/threads/10163783-new-character-submission-sibbicai-drelmSubmittal for adding 2nd class SpellswordSo I continued to explore the lands and help those who needed it. Offering what services I was capable of for those in need. As I grew in knowledge i also grew in power over my spells with lucindas blessing. In time I was allowed entry into the Angels guild to help create scrolls for guild and in return they would help me along in my dreams of becoming a trader like my parents. Unlike my parents who traded in mostly mundane items i wished to become a trader in in fine gems both magical and non-magical in nature. With the help of the guild my skills flourished. Scribing, gem cutting and polishing, enchanting, alchemy. I trained myself to polish emeralds with ease. These skills were both a benefit to the guild of which I am indebted to and myself.I would return home often, as the guild hall is not far from home, making sure my parents were taken care of. My travels brought riches so I made sure they had no need.  As I grew in age I grew in power as I was always showing mother a new spell that I had learned or ones that I had recently scribed. Gems that I had polished and enchanted or bottles or potions that I had made. I would always point out that these were not a benefit to me but to those that had put me in charge or carrying on the business of the guild and keeping things in order at the guild hall.I would often tell of great exploits were I had traveled to far away lands even to the vast Deep to gather diamonds.  As I grew my father would continue to instruct me in different weapons besides the staff and the crossbow. Eventually my father showed me a mightly greatsword that was extremely deadly because it was a Mecurial blade. I took an intrest with it, perhaps becuase of it deadly nature and  Iwanted something more powerful than my now flimsy staff. It had served me in my younger days, but now that Iwas able to weild greater spells and had obtained magical devices that made me capable of weilding such a weapon, I only needed training in its use. Father was more than eager to show me.  it took me a few years to learn its use and how to handle its mighty weight but I had managed it. I give the credit to Lucinda becuase it is her magic that made it all possible once again. I eventually had a great Iron mecurial greatsword crafted by the guild. I only wanted Iron nothing more, becuase I would recieve the blessings of Lucinda to make it even more magical, adding to its already potent acidic blade.  It is this sword that had carried many a foe to their deaths after a fiery ball was sent their way or flaming missiles took most of thier health and the mighty blade consumed their remaining life.  Charging into battle had become a way of practice for me for it was Lucinda's magic that was protecting this soldier or hers, and I felt her magic surround me in its protections in every way as I faced down each remaining fow with my blade.As time grew I would often ask my parents on battle tactics of situations that I had experienced in my travels. My mother would offer her insight using her spells to best advantage in situations with groups or alone. While my father would show me how best to employ my weapon to offer defensive and offensive advantages of how the weapon is weilded. I would tell great stories of me and my companion summons fighting side by side cleaving through enemies with little use of spells outside of Her Lady's protections that surrounded me and how Her magics allowed me to weild this mighty sword in battle and protected me from the enemies  blows as the spells misdirected thier once fatal blows. This made my father smile, seeing his son at last weilding a might sword.As time grew on it was my father that had suggested I wear something more fitting for a warrior and suggest I wear armors.  He had recognized Lucindas magic in making me able to weild a sword, why could I not also wear armor and cast magic. My mother had heard stories of heroic spellweaving battle scarred warriors, capable of wearing armor and able to cast spells with ease. She was quick to point out this was possible with much training and discipline, without having to resort to a metamagic feat.I must say I failed at casting more often than I succeeded in the beginning, while wearing even simple leathers, but with my mothers instruction and skill with magic she help me overcome my failures and turned more of them into successes. My father instructed my on all the various armor types and how best to get in and out of them quickly, fasteners and straps and buckles. He explained each armors strength and weakness. How to face your enemy with only a sword and no shield to offer the best protection should my spells fail based on the type of armor I am wearing. While mother went int othe best protection spells to cast on warriors and on oneself during close combat battles, and those to cast before charging into battle to best weaken the enemies and strike fear into thier hearts before charging into battle.As I tried casting in the different armor types I had a tough time with it. The armor was heavy and hindered my csting. weighing on my shoulders, it made it hard to freely move my arms as I had always done so easily wearing simple robes. Some of the most heavy armors made it nearly impossible to cast without having to relearn the proper movement for the spell. But as I learned when I was young attempting to cast spell for the first time and preserve them to memory. It takes practice and patience.I started with the simplest of spells, the familar cantrips, something that di not cause much damage should it misfire or tax my strength too much when I failed. Eventually I had managed to cast wearing the simplest of armors while casting the simplest of spells. With much patience and practice I know I can go on the learn even greater things.// As a side not in regards to his progression towards a Spellsword, he has a weapon proficiency Exotic since lvl 16. Dropping use of the staff and the x-bow in favor of the greatsword since. This progression is not a class change but more of a class progression to continue on a path that I feel he has been on since aquiring the Exotic proficiency.  I realize this does not meet the requirement of two  weeks of character development logs as per the requirement, but I could have easily split this character development story above into several weeks. Please see fit to excuse the 2 week of logs in light of the character development here.
There can be only One.
 

silverblades

//Sorry I could not get the
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2017, 03:10:23 pm »

//Sorry I could not get the link to work.

There can be only One.
 

Rowana

Hello silverblades,This
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2017, 11:52:49 pm »

Hello silverblades,

This request would ordinarily be approved for a CDQ rather than the asked for CDT entries. Due to the limited amount of GMs and GM time, I am investigating options for you. Also, do you have any kind of CDT for this character? Even if it hasn't been contributed to lately, I'd still possibly find something helpful for the request.

Thanks in advance for your patience,

~row

 

silverblades

Just one entry I made shortly
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 06:24:30 pm »

Just one entry I made shortly after I started with him.  I doubt I can get this thread to work, cant cut and paste, so heres the written out link.

http://layonara.com/chardev/master-sibbicai-trader-explorer-mage-warrior 

Date of this entry is june 21  2016

 

Also I just recently noticed the  prereqs of spellsword having weapon proficiencies and all armor type proficiencies, I misread it and thought these were bonus' to class, not requirements. With that being said I would also like to continue my submission for PrC Spellsword and add fighter as a class split. I doubt Ill ever make it to see spellsword after five levels of fighter though, especially this late in the game. 

 

There can be only One.
 

Rowana

Hi Silverblades,Since you
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2017, 02:04:32 pm »

Hi Silverblades,

Since you didn't up date the original thread I am writing to confirm. Are you now applying for a second AND third class for sibbicai? And you would like to have both of them under the condition of no CDT requirements, is that correct?

~row

 

silverblades

requesting second and third
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2017, 07:20:24 pm »

requesting second and third class yes.

I can sub a CDT if thats whats necessary.  I will most likely break my  submission down into a few entries of a CDT and continue on from there as time goes on. I can also resub this requesting the additional class fighter along with SS, and post a link going back to the CDT. Or whatever you want.

I would  like to split class after lvl 25 Wiz. then fighter then SS.

let me know.

thanks

There can be only One.
 

Acacea

Hey sb, sorry for the wait --
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2017, 03:15:02 pm »
Hey sb, sorry for the wait --  given that you've just discovered Sibbi isn't prepared to go SS, why don't we call this the fighter sub and approve that, and then you can resub once he's closer to being able to take levels ?

I get the trying to make up for lost CDT with extra long sub, it's something I've had to do on more than one occasion, hehe. Since he can't wear all types of armor yet, maybe you could use this as fodder for his next sub updated for some of his training over that period of time? Perhaps he'll fight in armor dealing with spell failure, borrow armors or weights to train in from the Angels, who knows! Just a thought :)

In any case, you can consider this a green light for fighter levels, but it would make a lot of sense to reapply for Spellsword once he qualifies. Sound good?

(In case the option was overlooked, you could always burn feats on the armor proficiencies if you didn't want to give up wizard levels. Random comment, sorry if it's obvious!)
 

silverblades

Ill take the green light for
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2017, 06:45:21 am »

Ill take the green light for fighter levels if your giving it thanks.

In the mean time Ill work on the CDT for Spellsword, got a few levels to go for that.

It would take me to lvl 33 to get the req. feats to go SS while leveling up wizard. Unless you want to exchange the martial feat for exotic? then I would need to go to 30.

///

Going fighter is waay easier for sure but RP wise makes less sense.    Seems more RP friendly to go Wizard  to get feats instead of the  easy route and go fighter. Sure it takes longer but fighter is too easy. All the weapon proficiencies are a bit overkill IMO.  Kinda goes against the grain if a wizard chooses to keep his staff but has to study a myriad of weapons to progress.  Sure,  mechanically speaking Its not the weapon thats hindering him from casting but armors.  Unless your following more along the spirit of the Class not mechanically. Then for me it would clearly make more sense to progress in Wizard in that respect.

In retrospect

Whats the thinking behind the  weapon proficiency (simple) req. on top of the martial ? A wizard aint got time to study that many weapons on top of practicing to cast in armors.  Would make mores sense to force Weapon Focus perhaps.

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Dorganath

Sorry to butt into this
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2017, 09:27:10 am »

Sorry to butt into this thread, but I might be able to offer perspective to your questions.

Having a Spellsword character myself, I think what makes "RP sense" is less a matter of the class and more a matter of the character itself. I also think that the path one takes to get there, be it a pure caster path or a caster -> fighter path or even an fighter -> caster path...I think that's really a matter for the character's RP and not the RP behind the class itself.

Spellsword, despite the name, should not imply focus or even preference on any particular weapon. Since having a collection of specialized "Spellweapon" classes would be unwieldy and a little confusing, and since NWN has this nasty habit of enforcing mechanics in a rather all-or-nothing sort of way, the various weapon feats are kind of necessary in order to give the class its full flexibility for all character options. Things might be different if this was a tabletop setting without programmed enforcement of rules and rerequisites, but unfortunately, it's not. And yes, your point is taken about how it's somewhat odd to require all those weapon feats, particularly when the average Spellsword will not avail themselves of all the weapon options, but there really isn't a good way to have meaningful prerequisites while still allowing the player to sort of specialize and give the Spellsword the freedom to select the weapon of their choice.

My character, by way of example, decided to train as a Fighter for a while, starting at Level 6. This was an organic development for him. He started wearing light armor and using a sword rather than a staff, got frustrated with the random spell failure, etc. He eventually returned to focusing on developing his magic, got better armor that was made for spellcasters, and migrated back to a quarterstaff. And then, later in his life, he found himself in a bit of a "defender" role of sorts, so he reached back into his more martial training and worked to combine the two. As far as all the weapon feats go, he more or less ignores those weapons he never really used or doesn't care about. So while he can mechanically use battleaxes and heavy flails, he doesn't. If he did come across some, I'd RP him as getting familiar with it, because the only weapons he really has any experience with are a quarterstaff (his main), long/bastard sword (his backup/special-purpose) and a dagger.

So as for the thinking behind Weapon Proficiency (Simple) on top of Weapon Proficiency (Martial), simply put, they cover a different set of weapons. Your average Wizard doesn't have either, unless they take one of them instead of a more caster-oriented feat. Their default of Weapon Proficiency (Wizard) only gives access to a small subset of weapons and less than the "Simple" proficiency. Together, "Simple" and "Martial" cover the span of the most common set of weapons, giving the Spellsword a wide range of options. If a Spellsword wanted to go with something in the "Exotic" range instead, that would require additional training and of course extra feats, but that's, again, an RP choice for the character.

To put it another way, the RP is not necessarily a Wizard training with all the various weapons but rather being able to train with those that they want...and having the sense that just because mechanics say one can use an otherwise unfamiliar weapon doesn't mean they should or have to or should even claim to know. And because the Spellsword character had some martial training under their belt, there'd be nothing stopping them from picking up a flail or a battleaxe instead of their sword or staff, RPing some training with it and adding it to their arsenal.

IMHO, the RP is not defined by the line items on the character sheet. Rather, it is enabled and supported by them.

 

Acacea

I think it can make more RP
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2017, 11:34:00 am »

I think it can make more RP sense for a character to go pure caster/Spellsword, but I think it's not the path the PrC is built to be most accessible to. Spellsword is a "synergy" class, that takes two different types of training and makes a greater sum than their individual parts. I could see something like "Weapon Focus In Melee Weapon" ala Champion for SS qualifications, instead -- then if you had the proficiency, you could do the weapon, otherwise, not so much, but it does throw off qualify-speed comparison and isn't "general training". Fighters get all the weapon and armor stuff for free, so they'll qualify with that and the caster levels. If you replaced them with just something like WF, fighters still need an extra feat, and one that doesn't have anything to do with the "combining" theme, when the idea is that they've already undergone the broad martial training that will be needed. If you also nixed the armor reqs (I know you weren't suggesting it, but hey, maybe you won't wear armor, either), pure casters would qualify faster than mixed, with only marginally more experience with a particular weapon vs broad experience and training, in what's intended as a "little of this, little of that" class :) 

For a mage-character focused entirely in an important RP way on one particular weapon, a weaponmaster/spellsword would be cool. And an eternity of manual feats!

I'm not married to anything, anywhere, really, but I think it's generally expected that Spellswords will not be pure casters, but have significant martial training (eg Fighter levels) that will grant those feats. Characters going a different (and sometimes more interesting!) route need to invest manually to represent the important parts. I built a test Spellsword once that needed an unusual build (rogue/minimal sorc) and it was murder to get all the feats in time and still have some room for RP choices :) For this particular class, though, and in a medium that, as Dorg mentioned, is not terribly flexible, it probably makes sense to keep an ideal/most common path in mind and pre-req for that. 

I'm drifting off-topic, but in a weird way this is also why I'm more a fan of expanding feat/spells/archetype-things in NWN than adding classes. It seems like once you add a class/PrC, you kinda need fifty more to cover your options that don't fit in that package, and I'm personally more of a Lego type. The only problem I have with extra hurdles for characters not on that path is your exact scenario -- discovering late that you're not on track to meet multiple pre-reqs. Which sucks!

Anyway, back to Sibbicai, if you have any GPs left and remember what feats you took when, you could pick up to three feat levels to swap feats to get the pre-reqs faster without the third class? You're probably better off with fighter levels, really (and are already approved for them!), but I thought I'd mention your options. 

 

silverblades

Thanks for the response guys.
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2017, 08:30:56 pm »

Thanks for the response guys.

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