an Idea for gems crafting.

[Jilseponie Wyndon]

I don't understand Logan . . . If you have no skill levels, no xp levels, If you have the dust, how do you expect to make the item?  You can't.  And what skill is required to crush a gem?  Use a hammer, a chisel, another rock . .you still get dust, a small amount . .maybe one bag . .  But  Ido agree on the gem being at least cut first or any stage thereafter.  As for the wood, anyone can saw . . . so one bag isn't too bad in collecting when you are done.  But then this is all up to those that create these "machines".  (Kinda feels bad she started a fire with the gem crusher idea)

My apologies for upsetting anyone though my stupid ideas. (She shuts up now)

~ Jil

[LoganGrimnar]

basicly so long as the gems are in some fourm other then meneral, then i think this would work fine. So you can go cut your gem, polish it, enchant it, then grind it up for dust. Im sorry if im confusing, really this makes perfict sence in my mind, i just dont word it well, thats what i get for taking all thouse naps in English.. Mmm.. thouse were such good naps.. oh yea anyways! Your right, it takes no skill to grind up a gem, but all im saying is in the case of Topaz dusts, they shouldent be able to just toss it, a Meneral Topaz, in the grinder and get a dust. IMO it should need to be cut first, thus creating a balance so people cant just get dusts without actually knowning Gem craft.

And i dont think you upsetting anyone Jil, no need to shut up *winks* im tring to explain it.. i swear it all makes perfiect sence to me! Must be something wrong with everone else.. jeez *grin*

As for wood, to keep it balanced, like the gem craft, though it would be required even more so for the wood id think. Make the "grinder" only good for.. well anything but a branch, you can toss a yew long bow in and get a yew dust, you can toss a hickory staff in and get a hickory dust, ect. But it cant be the raw meterials for eather process.

[Gulnyr]

Jilseponie Wyndon - 8/17/2006  2:19 AM

If you have no skill levels, no xp levels, If you have the dust, how do you expect to make the item?  You can't.

What item?

And what skill is required to crush a gem?  Use a hammer, a chisel, another rock . .you still get dust, a small amount . .maybe one bag . .

On Layonara, the Gem Crafting skill is required.  On Layonara, it is entirely possible to be without the skill to crush a gem to produce useable dust.  Maybe on a DM'd quest a character could whack a gem with a mace to get some dust, but in the day-to-day workings of the world, mace-smashed dust just isn't good enough.  That's too brutish and unrefined.  Hammer-whacking might make dust, but the dust particles will be of varying sizes and there's a good chance chunks of gem will fly all over the place.  It takes a practiced hand and some skill with gems to be able to produce the right amount of dust at the right consistency.  A skilled crafter can grind the entire gem into evenly sized particles.

LoganGrimnar - 8/16/2006  10:52 PM

So you could make it so you could ONLY gring up already processed gems. So, Cut the gem, then you can grind it. This will fix the issue with people not having to learn gem craft, and it will keep things balanced.

This changes the xp from the craft.  There are only two reasons anyone would be asking to grind cut and polished gems:  because the gem is useless to them and the dust isn't, or because they want to get more Gem Crafting xp without spending the money for polishing oil.  Some gem dusts are used as ingredients in other craft recipes.  Currently, if you need gem dust for another recipe, you need a raw gem to crush.  This is a low-xp operation, and possibly even a no-xp operation for a skilled Gemcrafter.  Allowing the gem to be cut and polished first gives Gem Crafting xp for each step plus the extra gem dust from cutting rather than just a single, low-yield xp chance and the basic dust from the grinding.

Also, consider that the high-end gems currently give the automatic gem dust plus a single gem dust when the raw mineral is crushed successfully.  Cutting and polishing a gem removes a lot of material, seen in-game as the change from a five pound rock to a no-weight gemstone.  Crushing the raw mineral can be seen as removing the dirt and such from the mineral, then grinding down the entire amount of gemstone.  A cut gem has far, far less material to grind.  If a full-sized, uncut gem would yield two bags of dust, and cutting a gem would yield one bag of dust, how many cut or polished gems would be necessary to produce even a single pouch of gem dust?  Even greenstone should take a handful of polished stones to produce one bag of dust.

Jilseponie Wyndon - 8/17/2006  2:19 AM

As for the wood, anyone can saw . . . so one bag isn't too bad in collecting when you are done.

Again, I would say anyone could make everyday sawdust, but only a skilled Woodcrafter could reliably make consistently-sized dust that would be needed for making paper on Layonara.  Similarly, anyone could grind corn, but only a skilled Cook could reliably produce corn flour for enchanting purposes.  It may seem crazy that things are like this, but try to imagine that the final product is something refined and "pure," made by someone who knows what is needed.  A mage doesn't spend decades learning to manipulate the Weave only to toss in any old material component.  It takes a finely ground gem dust in a properly measured "dose", not just the smashed remains from the anvil after Gork got tired and quit whacking.

It is important to remember that things that seem simple and insignificant cross over into other crafts as important ingredients.  Plus, if you "dumb down" gem dust, sawdust, and flour so that anyone can make it, you eliminate some of the need for character interaction.  The Enchanter no longer needs the Cook to make corn flour for those rods.  The Scribe no longer needs the Woodcrafter to make sawdust for those scrolls.

[Faldred]

LoganGrimnar - 8/16/2006  10:36 PM

And you wouldent bother setting Greenstones, the dust isent used for anything anyways, that i can recall.. the metal, be it copper or anything, isent worth waisting to set a greenstone inless someone is buying it.

Well, you'd set greenstones for practice (crafting XP) if for no other reason.  Besides, greenstone dust is VERY useful in alchemy -- it's used in Essence of Cure, which is the basis for the Cure XXX Wounds potions.

[silverdraco]

Faldred - 8/17/2006  2:01 PM  Well, you'd set greenstones for practice (crafting XP) if for no other reason.  Besides, greenstone dust is VERY useful in alchemy -- it's used in Essence of Cure, which is the basis for the Cure XXX Wounds potions.

 I knew greenstone was usefull for something. Now I'm going to ask someone ingame and ic what is needed for potions like that and then I'll get it for them so that they can make it for my character. I know just who to talk to.  Oh by the way. I gor rid of those cut gems I couldn't use anymore. hureee for pawn shops. not the best option but the only one I knew about.

[Dorganath]

Dorganath - 8/16/2006  7:56 AM    Donate the gems to the deity of your choice?
  Sell them to the pawns?
  Sell them to enchanters/infusers?
  *shrugs*

[darkstorme]

By rights, if you don't have a diety of choice, it'd probably be apropos to donate the gems to Beryl. Goodness knows, she ought to appreciate it.. and perhaps watch over you in your next crafting attempt.

[Dorganath]

I've been fairly silent on this, but I am going to speak up about something that may seem fairly minor, but which does reflect an overall larger view of the implications of this suggestion.
  Really, there's only one main issue here: no other craft allows a person to take finished or semi-finished, non-defective goods and convert them into some form of raw CNR. Sawdust cannot be made from finished staves and such that no one wanted, finished armor and weapons can't be melted back down into ingots, and so forth. But if we add the ability to grind up cut or fine gems, this is exactly what we'd be doing....and I'm pretty certain that other crafts would want something similar.
  But essentially, that is exactly what you are asking for here. When you craft, you make certain decisions about what you should make with the resources you have. One cannot take a form of intermediate or final CNR and transform it into another. You decide what to do with your resource and that's the track you need to follow.

[Faldred]

Dorganath - 8/17/2006  1:06 PM    I've been fairly silent on this, but I am going to speak up about something that may seem fairly minor, but which does reflect an overall larger view of the implications of this suggestion.
  Really, there's only one main issue here:  no other craft allows a person to take finished or semi-finished, non-defective goods and convert them into some form of raw CNR.  Sawdust cannot be made from finished staves and such that no one wanted,  finished armor and weapons can't be melted back down into ingots, and so forth.  But if we add the ability to grind up cut or fine gems, this is exactly what we'd be doing....and I'm pretty certain that other crafts would want something similar.
  But essentially, that is exactly what you are asking for here.  When you craft, you make certain decisions about what you should make with the resources you have.  One cannot take a form of intermediate or final CNR and transform it into another. You decide what to do with your resource and that's the track you need to follow.  
   
   

 I agree.  And for gem crafters, with the exception of the final setting step, they'll always get at least a byproduct at any stage of crafting, so they're generally ahead of the game anyway.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

No, Faldred. At least polishing greenstone (which gods know I've done enough of) you don't get any more dust. You only get dust for cutting it.

[Hellblazer]

Dorganath - 8/17/2006  1:06 PM    I've been fairly silent on this, but I am going to speak up about something that may seem fairly minor, but which does reflect an overall larger view of the implications of this suggestion.
  Really, there's only one main issue here:  no other craft allows a person to take finished or semi-finished, non-defective goods and convert them into some form of raw CNR.  Sawdust cannot be made from finished staves and such that no one wanted,  finished armor and weapons can't be melted back down into ingots, and so forth.  But if we add the ability to grind up cut or fine gems, this is exactly what we'd be doing....and I'm pretty certain that other crafts would want something similar.
  But essentially, that is exactly what you are asking for here.  When you craft, you make certain decisions about what you should make with the resources you have.  One cannot take a form of intermediate or final CNR and transform it into another. You decide what to do with your resource and that's the track you need to follow.  
 
 
 

 
  There is one craft that you can take your failure and actualy return the product into its original stat and it is tinkering for arrowheads.  But that is with Failures.  Although... for any of you who has done some rl equivalent of IG smelting ( i did for school project) you can actualy take any kind of metal even those that are combined and refurnase it.  depending of the heat the metal will melt and the diferent metla will float untop of one of each other from heavier to lighter like oil floats over water.  This is also how gold is purified. but again this is Rp against RL but it would be logical to be able to do it.

[Faldred]

Stephen_Zuckerman - 8/17/2006  6:34 PM  No, Faldred. At least polishing greenstone (which gods know I've done enough of) you don't get any more dust. You only get dust for cutting it.

 I think you misread me -- I said you'd get at least a byproduct at every stage:

Cutting: Dust (always) and cut stones (on success)
Polishing: Fine stones (on success) or flawed stones (on failure)
Grinding: Dust (always) and more dust (on success)
Setting: Ring/Amulet/etc. (on success) or nothing (on failure)
[/list]Only the "Setting" stage can provide you with nothing -- every other stage always provides either improved CNR, a byproduct, or both.

[Dorganath]

Hellblazer - 8/18/2006  3:35 AM  There is one craft that you can take your failure and actualy return the product into its original stat and it is tinkering for arrowheads.  But that is with Failures.  Although... for any of you who has done some rl equivalent of IG smelting ( i did for school project) you can actualy take any kind of metal even those that are combined and refurnase it.  depending of the heat the metal will melt and the diferent metla will float untop of one of each other from heavier to lighter like oil floats over water.  This is also how gold is purified. but again this is Rp against RL but it would be logical to be able to do it.  
 

 I'm aware of that, actually. Note that I included "non-defective" in my list of qualifiers. Failed arrowheads return mangled metal (and there are other crafts which do this as well), but it is still a failure, and not a finished product. You cannot smelt down finished arrowheads. Cut and fine gems are finished...or at least intermediate products, and not failed crafting attempts.

[Hellblazer]

aye like i said only your failiures.