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Author Topic: Emeralds with a cost  (Read 726 times)

Honora

Emeralds with a cost
« on: May 15, 2007, 01:40:15 pm »
As I said I would, here is a suggestion for a between-diamond-and-emerald jewelry recipe.  Please note:  I have no experience with jewelcrafting.  Suggestions welcome; it was my intent for those of us who will never see an emerald to have an option, albeit one that forces us to give up a little something.
 

Lalaith Va'lash

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2007, 01:51:00 pm »
I just wanted to say:

Engagement Ring    +3 Cha, -1 Int...

that really made me laugh ;)

As for the idea, I like it.  With a little balancing for the world I think it could be a good option.
 

D Blaze

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2007, 01:54:13 pm »
As neat and creative as this idea is, it wouldn't happen.

Sapphires and Diamonds are relatively easy to get with just a little effort and planning, way easier than Emeralds.

That small stat penalty could easily be overcome with one buff, if it is even important enough at all. What is -2 to any one stat you don't care too much about, when you get +6 to the one that is most important to you? You can easily use other items and spells to cover over that minor penalty, and you are good, a piece of emerald jewelry with only a minor inconvienence (one that could actually be abused during crafting)
 

Weeblie

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2007, 02:12:41 pm »
I have to agree with D Blaze on this. The difference between gathering all gems below Emeralds compared to getting the green ones themselves is HUGE (except for Rubies, as I have no clue where they can be found nor the difficult of finding them). A light year difference...

Min/maxing clearly proves that a small ability score penalty is of a minor issue. Penalties on items can very hardly offset a positive bonus.

Actually, the only reasonable "emerald jewelery but not made of emeralds" that I can think of would have penalties along these lines:

-3 STR (use your "semi emerald" jewelery at the cost of your inventory-weight ability)
-3 CON (sacrifice your HP)
100% vulnerability to Slashing/Piercing/Bludgeon at the same time (if multiple items with those penalties stack)
100% vulnerability to Acid/Fire/Cold/Lightning at the same time (if stacking with equal items)

For penalties to be effective, they have to hit where it really hurts and it has to be made sure that the penalties are not easily countered with a single spell (or something like that).

Otherwise, the idea is not bad at all. Although, in my case, I would like Rubies to fullfill the "in between"-role. Too little love is put to those red shiny gems which should by design be considered worth more than diamonds but less than emeralds. :)
 

Interia_Discordius

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2007, 02:18:40 pm »
Eh, I'd agree, but the rubies are about 9-10 maps into the Deep... The most recent party I went with died in the map right before. Those illithids are tough :(

Unless there's a location I'm unsure about...
 

ShiffDrgnhrt

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2007, 02:23:27 pm »
Could you turn that into a word doc for those of us not blessed with Excel Spreadsheet?

Pwease?
 

D Blaze

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2007, 02:42:31 pm »
Name|STR|DEX|CON|INT|WIS|CHA
Giant's Friend| +3|////|////| -1|////|////
Mouse and Pussycat| -1| +3|////|////|////|////
Ring of the Goat|////|////| +3|////| -1|////
Bookworm|////|////| -1| +3|////|////
Grandfather's Ring|////| -1|////|////| +3|////
Engagement Ring|////|////|////| -1|////| +3


Ring as diamond ring except both a diamond and a sapphire are required.

Diamond can be enchanted with either Str, Con or Dex
Sapphire can be enchanted with either Int, Wis or Cha

Make ring as per diamond ring - raise difficulty to be halfway between diamond and emerald.

--Quoted right off the Excel document
 

ycleption

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2007, 02:56:26 pm »
Alternatively to the +3 minus some stuff as an in-between thing, you could create a selection of +2 that have bonuses random things.
Maybe something like
+2 strength and bonus feat: called shot
+2 dex and +2 hide, move silently, and tumble
+2 con and +10 hp
+2 int and a bonus level x spell slot
+2 wis and +2 will saves
+2 cha and x bonus to turn undead checks.

These are not well thought out, just examples, and I'm sure it would take some work to make them balanced between each other. Alternatively, they could just give bonuses to a few skill checks of the relevant ability.
 

Drizzlin

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2007, 04:37:09 pm »
I like Ycleption's ideas.
 

Stephen_Zuckerman

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2007, 02:16:35 am »
Quote from: ycleption
Alternatively to the +3 minus some stuff as an in-between thing, you could create a selection of +2 that have bonuses random things.
Maybe something like
+2 strength and bonus feat: called shot
+2 dex and +2 hide, move silently, and tumble
+2 con and +10 hp
+2 int and a bonus level x spell slot
+2 wis and +2 will saves
+2 cha and x bonus to turn undead checks.

These are not well thought out, just examples, and I'm sure it would take some work to make them balanced between each other. Alternatively, they could just give bonuses to a few skill checks of the relevant ability.

+2 STR, Bonus Feat: Improved Knockdown (Originally Called Shot)
+2 DEX, Bonus Feat: Spring Attack (Originally Mobility or Improved Initiative)
+2 CON, Bonus Feat: Toughness (Originally Strong Soul or Great Fortitude)
+2 INT, Bonus Feat: Greater Spell Penetration (Originally Spell Penetration or Silent Spell)
+2 WIS, Bonus Feat: Strong Soul or Iron Will (No more-powerful ideas here)
+2 CHA, +2 Bluff, +2 Gather Information, +2 Persuade, +2 Intimidate (Nor here)

I started off with the things in the parentheses, but then decided that, as RUBY items, they should add something nice, in accordance with the much more difficult CNR it uses. The only one I'm sketchy about is Improved Knockdown, as it presents them with Knockdown even if they don't have it.. And Spring Attack, for a DEX build, is likely redundant.

Oh, and it's two in the morning. That has something to do with it.
 

Skywatcher

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2007, 02:26:27 am »
If there were a way to select the additional feat rather than having specific ones with specific abilities it would be much more versatile.  Use a diamond of whatever ability and a ruby enchanted with the feat to combine to give a ring with both.  Oh and expertise would be a great feat option.  The recipe menu would have a selection first for this type of ring and then for the ability and then for the feat and then you would get the recipe.  That would make ruby super valuable over night I bet and give enchanters more things to make.  Just some thoughts to add to the above.
 

Stephen_Zuckerman

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2007, 02:41:34 am »
And consequently, loads more items to add into the palette, and recipes to add...

Keeping them as useful, but not TOO useful feats, that fall well into line with the ability they're enhancing, is the ideal route here. And even then, that's at least eighteen more recipes/items (one enchanted gem, one ring, and one amulet for each attribute).
 

Crunch

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2007, 07:57:23 pm »
When I look at the feats you are proposing adding to +2 jewelry, I think a lot of people would wear those over emeralds much of the time.  I like the idea in general, but I think this might be a bit too large a step up from diamonds.
 

Stephen_Zuckerman

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2007, 01:42:55 am »
The feats are just a basis for discussion - subject to discussion and balancing. I would say Disarm for the STR ring, but it's even more useless than Mobility (for DEX).

Toss some ideas out there; I'm a little brain-dead to be coming up with more at the moment.
 

Faldred

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2007, 01:24:47 pm »
Quote from: Stephen_Zuckerman
I would say Disarm for the STR ring, but it's even more useless than Mobility (for DEX).

Especially since Disarm doesn't do anything on Layonara (maybe something in PvP, perhaps, but not against NPCs or monsters).
 

miltonyorkcastle

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2007, 06:51:47 pm »
I like the ideas, but I'm with Crunch. The extras should not be worth more than having the +3 jewlery. To that end, I propose only offering skill increases, such as +5 in a couple of skills or maybe +10 in one skill. If you're going to attach feats, they have to be lesser feats. Improved Knock down or even greater spell penetration is just too much. Feats are just as and often more powerful than a +1 to a stat, which is what you're getting by having a +3 ring instead of a +2. The bonus needs to be worth less than a +1 bonus.
 

Honora

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2007, 07:04:52 pm »
I like the idea of the "adds" as well.  Good to see people thinking about it, I'm sure there are a number of us who won't ever see an emerald.  So perhaps +2 and bonuses to appropriate skills?
 

Stephen_Zuckerman

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2007, 12:59:29 am »
Milton: I agree, and stated that my suggestions were moderately wild ones... As I have several times now.

Skill bonuses, even +10, would probably not be on par with the sheer difficulty in acquiring and crafting these items (assuming it's a +10 to one skill). The way skills work in NWN, I just don't much agree with that fitting well. That said, these items should be just shy of equivalent to a +3 ability item... Just below, but only just.

Perhaps only Knockdown for the STR ring, or Spell Penetration (not Greater) for the INT... As was suggested by myself in my initial line-up.

What do you guys think would be appropriate choices for feats to go with these rings?

The way skills work in NWN, I don't really think skill bonuses would be appropriate to the difficulty it takes to get one's hands on a ruby. I dare say there are perhaps more emeralds currently in-game than rubies (crafted items, not deposits).
 

hawklen

Re: Emeralds with a cost
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2007, 06:10:49 am »
Aren't rubies just for prettiness and saving through items? And maybe  some other CNR craftable items?

This is very interesting, I shall continue reading the ideas people are comming up with.