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Author Topic: Iron is now scuicide  (Read 2596 times)

Dorganath

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2007, 05:53:05 pm »
Quote from: Hellblazer
re-read my post, did I say the team should make the event?

Yes it is which is why I have mention that an event could be created just for that. I didn't say that it should be Gm's that should create it.

Well this is a suggestion forum...it's an easy assumption to make! ;)
 

darkstorme

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2007, 07:16:33 pm »
Lost on Dregar?  I can still get lost on Alindor!
 

Pibemanden

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2007, 07:22:45 pm »
Hmm... Is it a problem if you never get lost no matter where you are in the (game-)world? :)
 

jrizz

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2007, 07:27:10 pm »
Quote from: darkstorme
Lost on Dregar?  I can still get lost on Alindor!


Oh thank the gods I am not the only GM that gets lost :) I had to send a tell to someone the other day saying I was lost and he laughed and said but your a GM :( Then there was the time that another GM sent me a nasty note from a giant that wanted to fight me. It said meet me in the Ire Mountains and I promptly ported to dregar and headed to the ore hills :)
 

Hellblazer

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2007, 07:32:33 pm »
I really really really seldemly get lost even with the changes. Hehe

merlin34baseball

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2007, 07:36:11 pm »
As for Haven, Mylindra and Tyrian went there once and went running out after the first room nearly dead. (18th and 17th levels)

I have been there with my weak as a daisy 9th level character with a similar level group (levels 8-11) and we could get Iron everytime.

So what I see is some sort of crazy power scaling to the monsters which isn't necesarily bad.  Its just funny :) my weak character with a balanced party can go somewhere my powerful one cannot.

Oh and I have to play all my characters as directionally challenged cause I get lost all the time...
 

DMOE

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2007, 07:37:57 pm »
Quote from: jrizz
Then there was the time that another GM sent me a nasty note from a giant that wanted to fight me. It said meet me in the Ire Mountains and I promptly ported to dregar and headed to the ore hills :)

I remember that!!! *grins*
 

jrizz

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2007, 07:43:13 pm »
Quote from: merlin34baseball
As for Haven, Mylindra and Tyrian went there once and went running out after the first room nearly dead. (18th and 17th levels)

I have been there with my weak as a daisy 9th level character with a similar level group (levels 8-11) and we could get Iron everytime.

So what I see is some sort of crazy power scaling to the monsters which isn't necesarily bad.  Its just funny :) my weak character with a balanced party can go somewhere my powerful one cannot.

Oh and I have to play all my characters as directionally challenged cause I get lost all the time...


That tells me that Haven was perfectly designed :)
 

Drizzlin

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2007, 10:46:52 pm »
Quote from: Pibemanden
It is geared towards groups of people around level 8-10, there might be something that a group way below a high level can handle that the high level can't. Those areas are rather hard but then again there has to be some challenges, I know that Haven and Iron Hills are amoung the hardest places, but the CR at Iron Hills are around 16-18ish as far as I remember while Haven is 12ish or something, the problem is that casters are severely hurt in Haven because they can't rest down there so damage spells and other oneshots should actually outweight buffing. And well again it is very hard to travel in parties with a huge level gap, I don't know what you are having trouble with specifically but I can say that while it is hard it is far from impossible.


I have brought this up in the past. Iron is not a level 18 cnr. Iron hills has level 10ish CNR at best when you consider what is there. I am not saying that the CNR there needs to be changed, but the level of mobs there needs to be taken down IMO.
 

Stephen_Zuckerman

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2007, 11:57:51 pm »
Har, Hellblazer. Why not comment on the suicidal nature of getting copper from the Red Lights while we're at it?

These areas are no longer intended to be main sources of the CNR that're in there. This has been stated over and over and over.

The reasonings behind this were thus: The areas were getting spammed with adventurers going through the same routine that, without lag, could eventually be timed almost precisely enough that you could make a program to run the level for you. There were in-game events (and I was there!) that changed the areas. The spam-CNR-run attitude dissuaded people from searching for new sources of CNR.

The importance of the reasons gets more important as one goes along in that statement; the last being most important. The problem, now, is people not bothering to search, explore, and find that new place to get Iron, or Plat, or Copper, or Malachite, or Peppermint, or whatever.

Iron isn't suicide. Unbalanced parties expecting an easy fight just because they're high level, is.

A balanced team of level 5s can clear the Kobold Encampment without a problem. An unbalanced team of, say, a couple level 10s, can't (depending on their classes). Likewise, while a balanced team of level 12s can clear Haven without a problem, an unbalanced team at level THIRTY! can still get slaughtered easy.

But even that's not the real issue.

Look around for the new areas the Team made. They're gorgeous. They've even got CNR.

P.S. In terms of balanced/unbalanced groups, your mileage may vary. Some -players- are more/less skilled at the engine's combat system than others. *Shrugs.* Some tennis players are better than others, too. I'm on the low end of both courts. My death count and the number of times I've heard "love" as part of the score... Those can attest to that. ;)
 

Acacea

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2007, 12:09:07 am »
Quote from: Drizzlin
I have brought this up in the past. Iron is not a level 18 cnr. Iron hills has level 10ish CNR at best when you consider what is there. I am not saying that the CNR there needs to be changed, but the level of mobs there needs to be taken down IMO.



I don't know, is it really mandatory that every deposit have a particular range, as long as properly ranged deposits exist in easier places? The Iron Hills is on the central server, and is clearly not really intended to be the "iron place." I can understand some areas not having much of interest CNR wise, but some challenging areas have -no- CNR at all. If someone wants to put copper ore laying around in a dragon cave in Belinara along with whatever, who cares? As long as there is somewhere very low level characters can get copper, and places where high level players can get mithril, everything else is just bonus in appropriate places. If you can get iron in a couple places on West, why is it very important that the CR of an area with iron on central be taken down?

I'm not really trying to shoot it down or anything, I just don't really understand why iron can only exist in a level 10 area, as long as it DOES exist -some-where in a level ten area.
 

Stephen_Zuckerman

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2007, 12:13:31 am »
Quote from: Acacea
I'm not really trying to shoot it down or anything, I just don't really understand why iron can only exist in a level 10 area, as long as it DOES exist -some-where in a level ten area.

Repeated for extra-extra emphasis. 'Cause this is important.
 

Rowana

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2007, 12:49:47 am »
I'd like to just reiterate what has already been stated once. The Haven Mines are as they are with current power levels due to player actions. Players caused the mines to be changed as they are. It was a quest that was open to the majority of server, and many were involved. It could have been worsened. It could also have been made easier. Regardless, it is as it is because players caused it to be this way.

~row
 

Stephen_Zuckerman

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2007, 01:40:42 am »
Pyyran couldn't roust those nasty gnolls. If you want to blame someone for them being there, blame him.

Then again, he (and the huge, awesome group that was there!) was (were) also responsible for making sure the gnolls weren't in Haven proper, just the mines.
 

Hellblazer

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2007, 02:19:59 am »
Quote from: Stephen_Zuckerman
There were in-game events (and I was there!) that changed the areas.

if your talking of the invasion of haven by the gnolls I remember it quite clearly as Lex was the only one not running around (beside Muir being on the ground agonizing :p)  and still praying when the demon escaped the ritual runes that were drawn on the ground hehehe.

DMOE

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2007, 03:59:26 am »
Hey....Muir made all her Con and concentration rolls, with Nat 20's I might add!!!

She was NOT on the ground agonising at all!

She was STILL keeping the ritual together which is what kept the demon from escaping completely!....Even as it was ripping her limbs off!

And then she kinda fell over sidewise when it pulled her leg off.....But she was too busy concentrating to scream much! ;)
 

s0ulz

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2007, 06:05:05 am »
What I keep seeing throughout this thread is the assumption that level equals power. That's not always true. A lot depends on the party mechanics and builds of said characters.

Why are you so suprised if heavily multiclassed characters get the floor mopped with their behinds, even in Haven. If that build isn't exceptional or meleeoriented, it should get wiped, since multiclassed characters are weaker for the most part.

Yes Haven is tough, but nothing special. A balanced party can do it without a problem if they bring their A game. Iron hills ogres are tougher, but once again that's Dregar and not every source of CNR should be scaled equally easy. There's iron on Belinara too, noone whines that CR25 creatures guard it.

So in the long run, a balanced party can get any of those sources nicely. As Dorg stated currently soloing has been turneddown a bit. But in any trip for any CNR it comes down to character builds and player skills. If people lack in those parts, no matter the level, they won't succeed.
 

Hellblazer

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2007, 09:08:24 am »
Quote from: DMOE
Hey....Muir made all her Con and concentration rolls, with Nat 20's I might add!!!

She was NOT on the ground agonising at all!

She was STILL keeping the ritual together which is what kept the demon from escaping completely!....Even as it was ripping her limbs off!

And then she kinda fell over sidewise when it pulled her leg off.....But she was too busy concentrating to scream much! ;)

yep, thats when it started running around killing people, and lex staid kneeling and praying which fixed the rune

now who said there wasn't power in praying??:D

Chongo

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2007, 10:44:41 am »
Can't say I know much about the new Haven.  But...
 
 My level 29 melee had to run from the ore hills about a month ago.  I found it embarrassing.  The mob was immense and they all found it quite easy to hit 47ish AC.
 
 Does this mean it's not balanced?  Well, as perturbed as I was, I can't really say that it indicates anything definite.  I mean, if I had someone to stand in front of me then it'd be over in about a half a round for each creature.  That said, in my opinion it's balanced a little too high, which is 100% my own fault.  Their AB for a level 16ish creature would indicate a +15ish bonus.  Which to me seems excessive after getting my arse handed to me.  In Bjornigar's opinion it seems low.  So who knows.
 
 By all means, folks should weigh in.  There's an update coming soon, so please do comment.
 

osxmallard

Re: Iron is now scuicide
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2007, 10:58:11 am »
I take back my previous comment, as I can not find an additional source of iron on West... a suggestion might be to add a few spires (1-3) in other cave locations that are accessable to balanced parties.

Chongo - you got mail.

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