The World of Layonara
NWN Discussions and Suggestions => CNR Suggestions/Discussion => Topic started by: Hellblazer on November 19, 2007, 04:23:34 pm
-
Yep I know the title is strong, but unless you are paired with 10+ people, or you are a super powerful epic, this is what it is now.
Haven even for an epic like Q is piratically not doable, and Iron hills.. well I have went there with Krys and Clarissa, and seeing how long ( a good five minute of fighting where Clarissa almost died twice, and yes I was dead after only 20 seconds) it took those two to deal with the spawn there, i'd say its suicide.
Now seeing that Iron is the third metal needed in any metal craft, I find that to be very harsh on the people who are learning to smelt or craft armor or weapons.
Might be that the spawns should be rethought just a little.
-
The problem is that if you bring a mage of eqvivalent level to the Hills at least you will find it way easier. Sure it is hard for fighters and it has always been hard for fighters to get resources but that is where the mage or cleric or even a bard comes to save the day by giving people an edge. Another factor was that you were fighting level 27-28 spawns there, they are not friendly to say the least and in Haven you had Quantum to up the challenge a fair bit, I know that might seem very unfair when you are standing but the spawns are quite balanced to a balanced party.
-
Yea I have to agree with Pibemanden. I have taken my cleric with one fighter (I think both were lvl 11 or 12 then) all the way down Haven and back out. Now it wasn't easy but we did get it done.. even with a bit of rp in there. We also went to Iron Hills with a group a few times.. but once again we were all around the same lvl.
-
actually loranin, a few weeks after v3 came online. I went with both rain (level 18 multi-classed but still higher mage) and Lex (level 15 cleric, when he had power) down in haven on two separate occasion, with Kyle (level 16 at the time) Jako (don't remember his level but near 14 i think) Dalan (Was level 13 or 14 at the time I think) and Ferrit (who was level 19)
It was already touch and go with our levels and spells to supply it. Now try to imagine the people with lower levels than those, with cleric and mage lower levels than those trying to get the ore they need to -learn-.
Q is a cleric and is level 24 and even him tells me it's almost impossible for him to do that. And when even Barion rp refusing to go....
if I remember correctly West is supposed to be aimed to levels around 8-10.
-
It is geared towards groups of people around level 8-10, there might be something that a group way below a high level can handle that the high level can't. Those areas are rather hard but then again there has to be some challenges, I know that Haven and Iron Hills are amoung the hardest places, but the CR at Iron Hills are around 16-18ish as far as I remember while Haven is 12ish or something, the problem is that casters are severely hurt in Haven because they can't rest down there so damage spells and other oneshots should actually outweight buffing. And well again it is very hard to travel in parties with a huge level gap, I don't know what you are having trouble with specifically but I can say that while it is hard it is far from impossible.
-
Ore Hills is far easier than Haven, and my 18th lvl dwarven defender gets around 160xp a pop for the monsters there, and they're a good fight. Now sure this is on a higher level spawn, but the lower level one that gives him 1xp each tends to kill him.
I agree that Haven's mines are a little bit overpowered for the cnr provided. We took a party of 8 various 7-12lvl people and were smoked quickly, using the most paranoid of tactics. Somethings wrong when an 18th level dwarf fears a cave designed for 8-10. Bjorn won't set foot in there... it's off to Dregar to mine for him!
On that note, I might just start announcing some treks to Dalanthar on a regular basis, seeing as how the iron workers are starving to death. ;)
-
Okay i think I will demonstrate it an other way. It is in no mean an approval of the tactics but it sure will give a better example. Do you find it -normal- that someone would be able to solo the whole fog and desert for minerals that are of a higher cr than in haven, but isn't able to do so in haven where the cr of the minerals an ore are by far lower?
I'm not saying it should be doable while soloing, but there is a good difference in the monsters Cr on central and the one on mistone. On central which the place has even gotten stronger due to combining both east and central together, should not be easier for one player to do than any place on minstone.
I hope this illustrate better how difficult this place has become to -low- levels (what I consider under level 10)
Now with this, I see that a lot of people will simply stop going into those areas to get the iron they need. err its the only two places with enough veins to be worth it, and either they will try to max out on platinum which is easier to get even though the cr for that should be higher, or people will simply lose interest in smelting or crafting armor and weapons when they hit that wall. Which in the end would be rather a very big waste of effort on the team.
-
Granted, When I take Q I only go by myself. Becouse of the fear of loseing to many people but I have tryed to do it in a little party with my mage one fighter and a cleric. We did not make it very far. I can see Rain's though on the matter. Me personaly, I would reather go for sapphires against the trolls then go down in to haven.
-
Wren 20 level barb/fighter (not a really good build) can do haven top to bottom. I have seen small parties of 7 to 10th level do it as well. Sure it is harder then it used to be but it is still doable enough to get the iron needed. IMHO.
-
I thought Haven was no longer intended to be the level-appropriate source of iron on West? Ie I thought it was available elsewhere to account for the upping in danger of Haven. Considering how many of these threads popped up after V3 talking about deathtrap Haven, and the responses, it seemed like the implication was always "look elsewhere." Isn't there iron elsewhere?
-
It is as far as I know the only place to still get Iron, the other place I think might have one or two vein is the mountain past storan's crypts, and I can tell you that it is as difficult if not more than haven.
-
Acacea is correct. There are other sources of iron on the West server.
Edit: Removed additional comment
-
Hellblazer, I just checked the place you spoke of because I wasn't sure if there was iron. I would say that if you say that the said character can solo the desert and forest giants this place shouldn't be all that hard compared to that. It should at least be easier than Haven.
-
It didn't seem easier when the party i was in got decimated *grins*, but then again I haven't gone back since to try again.
On an other note, if there is an other places than the two mention here above, and since most of the old timers I talked to don't know the "knew place" it might be good that an event be created to get that place known outside of the gm's
-
I thought Haven was no longer intended to be the level-appropriate source of iron on West? Ie I thought it was available elsewhere to account for the upping in danger of Haven. Considering how many of these threads popped up after V3 talking about deathtrap Haven, and the responses, it seemed like the implication was always "look elsewhere." Isn't there iron elsewhere?
Yeah, pretty much correct there, Acacea. Haven changed because of in-game events, which have been talked about at length elsewhere. Yes it's more difficult, yes it's above the "typical" threat level for West, but it is hardly not unique in that regard. The 1-10 level guideline for West is just that...a guideline. It is not a hard-and-fast rule, and it should not be expected that everywhere on West will be appropriate for any arbitrary mix of 1-10 level characters.
Part of the balancing efforts in V3 was to tweak CNR somewhat to slow down the rush-to-crafting-levels that some people seem to seek and to further encourage the concept of balanced parties. There's nothing that says someone needs to be climbing the crafting rosters and be able to craft half of the available recipes at 50% or greater by character level 10, yet some seem to do just that. Moving things around a bit, we hoped to slow or delay some of the usual CNR grinding.
As has been mentioned, having a very high-level character in the party will generally increase the threat level greatly, especially if the encounters don't max out in the usual level. This is to provide a scalable threat and challenge while, as mentioned before, encouraging a balanced party and discouraging the "bring an epic and hide behind him/her" tactic.
I'm not saying that was the plan, but there are mechanical and balance reasons for things being in the state they are.
-
Um, not all GMs know it because of they can cruise around. I don't know much crafting and I don't know where they are, nor do I want to find out that way. I don't think its the teams responsibility to show you where the places are to find CnR. Players (including the team) are supposed to find that out IC, and that constitutes a lot of fun in Layonara, which is exploring new places.
-
It didn't seem easier when the party i was in got decimated *grins*, but then again I haven't gone back since to try again.
On an other note, if there is an other places than the two mention here above, and since most of the old timers I talked to don't know the "knew place" it might be good that an event be created to get that place known outside of the gm's
I'm not sure I like the implication here.
I am not even really sure where this other source of iron is on West, mostly because I haven't cared enough to look in any capacity. Sure I could look, but I think I'm a good example of the idea that not all GMs know where all the CNR is just because they're GMs. There's no list in the GM forums of where CNR is located. I even am unsure of the location of a lot of plants and things in V3, since a lot of areas were reordered and such.
As for events...Isn't that part of the purpose of exploration?
-
Um, not all GMs know it because of they can cruise around. I don't know much crafting and I don't know where they are, nor do I want to find out that way. I don't think its the teams responsibility to show you where the places are to find CnR. Players (including the team) are supposed to find that out IC, and that constitutes a lot of fun in Layonara, which is exploring new places.
re-read my post, did I say the team should make the event?
I'm not sure I like the implication here.
I am not even really sure where this other source of iron is on West, mostly because I haven't cared enough to look in any capacity. Sure I could look, but I think I'm a good example of the idea that not all GMs know where all the CNR is just because they're GMs. There's no list in the GM forums of where CNR is located. I even am unsure of the location of a lot of plants and things in V3, since a lot of areas were reordered and such.
As for events...Isn't that part of the purpose of exploration?
Yes it is which is why I have mention that an event could be created just for that. I didn't say that it should be Gm's that should create it.
-
The fact that some people don't know and don't look is actually why I posted this thread - http://forums.layonara.com/cnr-suggestions-discussion/114605-taking-cnr-out-old-locations.html - in response to the series of "Haven = deathtrap!" threads. People get locked in a mindset of "resource lap here here here start over" and when they get changed, start thinking of how to get them from the same place, instead of looking around. If anything the 'old timers' and higher level characters (not necessarily the same thing) including GMs are the ones who will MOST do this, because new players will be exploring other areas and are not necessarily predisposed to expecting certain things from certain places.
If the other sources are skimpy and/or too hard (subjective, Haven's old ogres likely could still kick Acacea's butt whereas some mid-level characters can solo most of West), then that is a different topic from "Haven is too hard for iron" because Haven was overmined and so on, and gained new, nastier inhabitants from a GM quest and is not intended to be of iron-level. Actually, I remember when the iron deposits were lessened in Haven as early as '05 because of overmining so it's not even a new theme ;)
Thanks for confirming that it exists elsewhere - because of the many earlier posts in response to the Haven threads, it seemed like if it was not available anywhere else it would have been a severe oversight/accident and not intentional.
-
@Dorganath: Heh! I think I am in the same boat as you are as far as CnR goes. As for me I still get lost on Dregar!
-
re-read my post, did I say the team should make the event?
Yes it is which is why I have mention that an event could be created just for that. I didn't say that it should be Gm's that should create it.
Well this is a suggestion forum...it's an easy assumption to make! ;)
-
Lost on Dregar? I can still get lost on Alindor!
-
Hmm... Is it a problem if you never get lost no matter where you are in the (game-)world? :)
-
Lost on Dregar? I can still get lost on Alindor!
Oh thank the gods I am not the only GM that gets lost :) I had to send a tell to someone the other day saying I was lost and he laughed and said but your a GM :( Then there was the time that another GM sent me a nasty note from a giant that wanted to fight me. It said meet me in the Ire Mountains and I promptly ported to dregar and headed to the ore hills :)
-
I really really really seldemly get lost even with the changes. Hehe
-
As for Haven, Mylindra and Tyrian went there once and went running out after the first room nearly dead. (18th and 17th levels)
I have been there with my weak as a daisy 9th level character with a similar level group (levels 8-11) and we could get Iron everytime.
So what I see is some sort of crazy power scaling to the monsters which isn't necesarily bad. Its just funny :) my weak character with a balanced party can go somewhere my powerful one cannot.
Oh and I have to play all my characters as directionally challenged cause I get lost all the time...
-
Then there was the time that another GM sent me a nasty note from a giant that wanted to fight me. It said meet me in the Ire Mountains and I promptly ported to dregar and headed to the ore hills :)
I remember that!!! *grins*
-
As for Haven, Mylindra and Tyrian went there once and went running out after the first room nearly dead. (18th and 17th levels)
I have been there with my weak as a daisy 9th level character with a similar level group (levels 8-11) and we could get Iron everytime.
So what I see is some sort of crazy power scaling to the monsters which isn't necesarily bad. Its just funny :) my weak character with a balanced party can go somewhere my powerful one cannot.
Oh and I have to play all my characters as directionally challenged cause I get lost all the time...
That tells me that Haven was perfectly designed :)
-
It is geared towards groups of people around level 8-10, there might be something that a group way below a high level can handle that the high level can't. Those areas are rather hard but then again there has to be some challenges, I know that Haven and Iron Hills are amoung the hardest places, but the CR at Iron Hills are around 16-18ish as far as I remember while Haven is 12ish or something, the problem is that casters are severely hurt in Haven because they can't rest down there so damage spells and other oneshots should actually outweight buffing. And well again it is very hard to travel in parties with a huge level gap, I don't know what you are having trouble with specifically but I can say that while it is hard it is far from impossible.
I have brought this up in the past. Iron is not a level 18 cnr. Iron hills has level 10ish CNR at best when you consider what is there. I am not saying that the CNR there needs to be changed, but the level of mobs there needs to be taken down IMO.
-
Har, Hellblazer. Why not comment on the suicidal nature of getting copper from the Red Lights while we're at it?
These areas are no longer intended to be main sources of the CNR that're in there. This has been stated over and over and over.
The reasonings behind this were thus: The areas were getting spammed with adventurers going through the same routine that, without lag, could eventually be timed almost precisely enough that you could make a program to run the level for you. There were in-game events (and I was there!) that changed the areas. The spam-CNR-run attitude dissuaded people from searching for new sources of CNR.
The importance of the reasons gets more important as one goes along in that statement; the last being most important. The problem, now, is people not bothering to search, explore, and find that new place to get Iron, or Plat, or Copper, or Malachite, or Peppermint, or whatever.
Iron isn't suicide. Unbalanced parties expecting an easy fight just because they're high level, is.
A balanced team of level 5s can clear the Kobold Encampment without a problem. An unbalanced team of, say, a couple level 10s, can't (depending on their classes). Likewise, while a balanced team of level 12s can clear Haven without a problem, an unbalanced team at level THIRTY! can still get slaughtered easy.
But even that's not the real issue.
Look around for the new areas the Team made. They're gorgeous. They've even got CNR.
P.S. In terms of balanced/unbalanced groups, your mileage may vary. Some -players- are more/less skilled at the engine's combat system than others. *Shrugs.* Some tennis players are better than others, too. I'm on the low end of both courts. My death count and the number of times I've heard "love" as part of the score... Those can attest to that. ;)
-
I have brought this up in the past. Iron is not a level 18 cnr. Iron hills has level 10ish CNR at best when you consider what is there. I am not saying that the CNR there needs to be changed, but the level of mobs there needs to be taken down IMO.
I don't know, is it really mandatory that every deposit have a particular range, as long as properly ranged deposits exist in easier places? The Iron Hills is on the central server, and is clearly not really intended to be the "iron place." I can understand some areas not having much of interest CNR wise, but some challenging areas have -no- CNR at all. If someone wants to put copper ore laying around in a dragon cave in Belinara along with whatever, who cares? As long as there is somewhere very low level characters can get copper, and places where high level players can get mithril, everything else is just bonus in appropriate places. If you can get iron in a couple places on West, why is it very important that the CR of an area with iron on central be taken down?
I'm not really trying to shoot it down or anything, I just don't really understand why iron can only exist in a level 10 area, as long as it DOES exist -some-where in a level ten area.
-
I'm not really trying to shoot it down or anything, I just don't really understand why iron can only exist in a level 10 area, as long as it DOES exist -some-where in a level ten area.
Repeated for extra-extra emphasis. 'Cause this is important.
-
I'd like to just reiterate what has already been stated once. The Haven Mines are as they are with current power levels due to player actions. Players caused the mines to be changed as they are. It was a quest that was open to the majority of server, and many were involved. It could have been worsened. It could also have been made easier. Regardless, it is as it is because players caused it to be this way.
~row
-
Pyyran couldn't roust those nasty gnolls. If you want to blame someone for them being there, blame him.
Then again, he (and the huge, awesome group that was there!) was (were) also responsible for making sure the gnolls weren't in Haven proper, just the mines.
-
There were in-game events (and I was there!) that changed the areas.
if your talking of the invasion of haven by the gnolls I remember it quite clearly as Lex was the only one not running around (beside Muir being on the ground agonizing :p) and still praying when the demon escaped the ritual runes that were drawn on the ground hehehe.
-
Hey....Muir made all her Con and concentration rolls, with Nat 20's I might add!!!
She was NOT on the ground agonising at all!
She was STILL keeping the ritual together which is what kept the demon from escaping completely!....Even as it was ripping her limbs off!
And then she kinda fell over sidewise when it pulled her leg off.....But she was too busy concentrating to scream much! ;)
-
What I keep seeing throughout this thread is the assumption that level equals power. That's not always true. A lot depends on the party mechanics and builds of said characters.
Why are you so suprised if heavily multiclassed characters get the floor mopped with their behinds, even in Haven. If that build isn't exceptional or meleeoriented, it should get wiped, since multiclassed characters are weaker for the most part.
Yes Haven is tough, but nothing special. A balanced party can do it without a problem if they bring their A game. Iron hills ogres are tougher, but once again that's Dregar and not every source of CNR should be scaled equally easy. There's iron on Belinara too, noone whines that CR25 creatures guard it.
So in the long run, a balanced party can get any of those sources nicely. As Dorg stated currently soloing has been turneddown a bit. But in any trip for any CNR it comes down to character builds and player skills. If people lack in those parts, no matter the level, they won't succeed.
-
Hey....Muir made all her Con and concentration rolls, with Nat 20's I might add!!!
She was NOT on the ground agonising at all!
She was STILL keeping the ritual together which is what kept the demon from escaping completely!....Even as it was ripping her limbs off!
And then she kinda fell over sidewise when it pulled her leg off.....But she was too busy concentrating to scream much! ;)
yep, thats when it started running around killing people, and lex staid kneeling and praying which fixed the rune
now who said there wasn't power in praying??:D
-
Can't say I know much about the new Haven. But...
My level 29 melee had to run from the ore hills about a month ago. I found it embarrassing. The mob was immense and they all found it quite easy to hit 47ish AC.
Does this mean it's not balanced? Well, as perturbed as I was, I can't really say that it indicates anything definite. I mean, if I had someone to stand in front of me then it'd be over in about a half a round for each creature. That said, in my opinion it's balanced a little too high, which is 100% my own fault. Their AB for a level 16ish creature would indicate a +15ish bonus. Which to me seems excessive after getting my arse handed to me. In Bjornigar's opinion it seems low. So who knows.
By all means, folks should weigh in. There's an update coming soon, so please do comment.
-
I take back my previous comment, as I can not find an additional source of iron on West... a suggestion might be to add a few spires (1-3) in other cave locations that are accessable to balanced parties.
Chongo - you got mail.
.
-
Dwarven Defender Damage Reduction is a wonderful thing. :D
-
I can propose maybe switching the two copper vein in the desert cave, there is 3 that is pretty much easy to access for low levels in party somewhere. Upping the spawn of mercs by a few (3 or 4) more mercs could balance it out at the same rating of ac though. With the snakes and scorpions in the desert it takes a good party for low levels to go there anyways, so it seems to fit.
-
I take back my previous comment, as I can not find an additional source of iron on West... a suggestion might be to add a few spires (1-3) in other cave locations that are accessable to balanced parties.
Chongo - you got mail.
.
There is another source of Iron on West.
For obvious reasons, I'll not mention it here. ;)
EDIT: Incidentally, there are 4 places to get iron on Central.
-
Most likely the iron is somewhere that people DONT usually go, like prolly Alindor/Dragon Isle/Krashin. So.... Look! Go there! The is more in Alindor then Stone, Mariner's Hold and the Lake of Glass!
EDIT: Just don't get caught by Milara....
-
I can propose maybe switching the two copper vein in the desert cave, there is 3 that is pretty much easy to access for low levels in party somewhere. Upping the spawn of mercs by a few (3 or 4) more mercs could balance it out at the same rating of ac though. With the snakes and scorpions in the desert it takes a good party for low levels to go there anyways, so it seems to fit.
I just want to clarify something....
Iron is not a "low-level" CNR. It is a mid-level CNR.
Copper and Bronze are low-level CNR.
Platinum and Adamantium are high-level CNR.
Mithril is a high-to-epic-level CNR.
So as I said above, there's really no reason why a low-level party should be able to go get Iron.
-
In addition to this, I have seen a party around 10-12 and one epic character go through this from top to bottom with three main fighters and spell casters comprising of clerics and mages.
The party was able to complete this without any deaths. So it -is- possible with careful teamwork and planning.
-
There is another source of Iron on West.
For obvious reasons, I'll not mention it here. ;)
EDIT: Incidentally, there are 4 places to get iron on Central.
Argh! The power of the Dorg has beaten me.... perhaps there should be iron golems to kill and harvest. ;)
-
I have seen a group of level 11-12, with one epic character with a mix of clerics and fighters. They managed to get to the bottom. In my opinion it takes team work and planning of spells.
I don't think that its that hard if there is planning behind it.
-
There is indeed more iron on west , not a place youd look but its there ive come across it a few times and il keep the location quiet LOL ....
But maybe its an excuse to find some friend RP and go find it .
-
Can't say I know much about the new Haven. But...
My level 29 melee had to run from the ore hills about a month ago. I found it embarrassing. The mob was immense and they all found it quite easy to hit 47ish AC.
Does this mean it's not balanced? Well, as perturbed as I was, I can't really say that it indicates anything definite. I mean, if I had someone to stand in front of me then it'd be over in about a half a round for each creature. That said, in my opinion it's balanced a little too high, which is 100% my own fault. Their AB for a level 16ish creature would indicate a +15ish bonus. Which to me seems excessive after getting my arse handed to me. In Bjornigar's opinion it seems low. So who knows.
By all means, folks should weigh in. There's an update coming soon, so please do comment.
And that is my point Chongo and glad to see there is a change coming. People are taking this all wrong and trying to "prove points" IMO. I simply stated that the creatures are to powerful for an area two zones over from Dalanthar. Yes it is central/east, but that aside I don't need to explain to you how strong those things are now, because you know =).
-
I take back my previous comment, as I can not find an additional source of iron on West... a suggestion might be to add a few spires (1-3) in other cave locations that are accessable to balanced parties.
Chongo - you got mail.
.
Yes I actually made the suggestion a long time ago to put perhaps a deposit or two at the bottom of the red light caverns. Without giving locations, there are easier locations to grab copper on west than those red caverns.
-
I just want to clarify something....
Iron is not a "low-level" CNR. It is a mid-level CNR.
Copper and Bronze are low-level CNR.
Platinum and Adamantium are high-level CNR.
Mithril is a high-to-epic-level CNR.
So as I said above, there's really no reason why a low-level party should be able to go get Iron.
Poor Tin...no love for Tin... Only the final product, Mr Bronze...=P
*grins*
This is how I always saw it Dorg. I am personally not fighting for the rights of a low party to gather Iron.
-
People are taking this all wrong and trying to "prove points" IMO. I simply stated that the creatures are to powerful for an area two zones over from Dalanthar. Yes it is central/east, but that aside I don't need to explain to you how strong those things are now, because you know =).
Just to clarify, I was responding specifically to the statement that an area was too difficult for the CNR it contained, because I didn't see one saying that it was just too hard in general. It seemed like the Mob level vs CNR level was the point. I cannot comment on difficulty level in general. Sorry if it seemed that it was all over the post to prove a point or something.
-
Poor Tin...no love for Tin... Only the final product, Mr Bronze...=P
*grins*
This is how I always saw it Dorg. I am personally not fighting for the rights of a low party to gather Iron.
I'm more worried about Count Cobalt. He's getting forgotten by so many people :)
-
Oh and I have to play all my characters as directionally challenged cause I get lost all the time...
Same!
-
*coughs softly* There is a reason the Ore Hills ogres are more powerful than before. You could not have known that, of course, but there is.
*pokes Eor*
-
wait did i just read that ed gets lost?
-
Not interested in committing suicide for Iron? Get your iron from your local Dwarven ore merchant. For all your Iron needs.
http://forums.layonara.com/trade-market-hall/118642-sheildbreaker-shipping-ore.html#post501762
-
wait did i just read that ed gets lost?
Yes, I get lost all the time. There is no server area linking map (contrary to popular belief).
-
Well, there was. I made one, early on in my time here, but never bothered updating it. Never even got started on my East map.
-
It is as far as I know the only place to still get Iron, the other place I think might have one or two vein is the mountain past storan's crypts, and I can tell you that it is as difficult if not more than haven.
Indeed so..a cleric and a paladin took the mountain top swarmin with frost giants we were 15 both of us but we did it. it was a slow march in and out.
We managed to get a few nuggets of Iron there and platinum I think, not too many spires of anything really for the trek we made up there, there was probably 10 screens or so to get there, and we avoided alot of monsters if we could.
so I'd say the balance was correct, buy the payout was dismal for the work involved. havent been back there since, and havent advanced in smithing either,not worth it to make a shovel which is why (IC wise) the reason I started crafting was to help farmers..
-
Seconded. I was just bemoaning the general difficulty of gathering metals today. Having to be in your mid-teens to progress beyond the basics in metal working is not fun. Throw a few low hanging fruit spawns so that players don't run into a solid wall.
-
Having just completed a solo-run to the Haven Mines and extracting ore from the most easilly accesible spawn-point there, I can say that mining Iron is not suicide.
I was playing as Treana, who is a level 19 character (15 Fighter/4 Wizard) though I didn't use any buffs or spells on the way down, until I got to the final room with the CNR in it. While normally I might sneak or invis my way past the spawns along the way, excepting of course those in the same room with the CNR I'm after, this time I fought my way down. Granted, I didn't draw entire spawns upon myself at once, but confronted 3-4 Gnolls at a time and otherwise 'fought smart' using terrain to keep more than two from being able to strike at me at any one time. All in all, the trip down cost me 10 Healing Kit +1's, the use of a single cure light wounds potion I found on the way, and 1 use of a Healer's Hug Belt.
You could say that for this trip I fought as a level 15 Fighter most of the way, since I didn't use any spells or buffs until I got to the final room (and could have foregone them there too if I'd felt like it). I even passed on using the Helm of Armor II, Alexi's Stone, Necklace of Shield, and Ioun Stone of +1AC. Expertise and Improved Expertise, along with my Dex bonus, Cobalt Reinforced Clothing, Large Adamantium Shield, and Swashbuckler's Sabre kept my AC when fighting between 31 and 36, which seemed to be high enough to avoid being hit too often. When I buffed up in the last room where the CNR is to fight the two spawns of Gnolls there, I switched to using both my Adamantium Rapier and my Swashbuckler's Sabre together, allowing me to wipe the floor with the Gnolls more quickly (with buffs and Improved Expertise for those two fights my AC was at 36-40).
The trip took me between 20-30 minutes from entry to exit. Sadly, I only pulled out two nuggets of ore (of a possible 10-11 from the one ore spawn I visited). Not much for all the effort to acquire it, but on the bright side I made more money than I spent on this trip.
I'd guess a well organized and decently equiped party of perhaps four level 12-13 fighters and a couple spell-casters, 'fighting smart', could manage to mine at least the same deposit of ore like I did with great success. Characters that charge in and get themselves surrounded and overwhelmed however will almost always meet with defeat. Will they pull out a huge amount of ore in one trip? Not likely. Are there other places to get it on the west server? Yep. Do they produce a whole lot more per trip? Probably not, though I haven't tested them yet a whole lot myself to be honest.
**Edit - If it was too easy to get, would it feel as good when you got what you'd come for? The fun lies in the challenge. However, on the other side, I do agree it shouldn't be so challenging that it becomes an overly repetitious grind to get what you need either.
-
if getting raw CNR is easier than going to Dregar and killing a few pinata giants which drop finished goods no labor, then yes, the spawns for the raw CNR are way too challenging. It's why Farros doesn't bother chopping mahogany anymore. Why work up a sweat when you can find a yew guitar in an hour's hunt?
That's the main problem, raw CNR is now much harder to farm than the items made from them. That makes me feel a lot worse as a crafter than easy ore. As easy as that ore is supposedly to get, you still need to make 50-100 fullplates to work on platinum or adamantium, the time investment alone on a full success rate of 10 ingots per attempt is staggering. It spent me months and months to get Farros to the level of music crafting he reached and now everybody and their mother's swimming in mahogany and yew instruments. Same with Iron weapons and armor. By the time we can mine the raw CNR, our characters are already throwing suits of the stuff on pawnshops for ticket money.
-
I thought people over level 12 cause huge spawns in the Haven. I've been told that five or six people can clear it when they are under twelve. All this has been brought up before, but if you bring an epic, and then bring lower people, the groups probably going to die even though you may have a high leveled tank. The spawns are so big, they swarm the epic and move around him or her unless in a narrow hallway. Also takes a balanced group of fighters, clerics and mages as well.
-
To put this into perspective. My character Buddy Tenker finds it more convenient to practice his armor skills working Platinum from the Moors then Iron anywhere else. That's with a 35% chance of making a Platy Helm. Just yesterday he a level 11 fighter and a level 9 Druid were able to get Platinum with no problem. He only used 3 bandages and 3 cure moderate. I would not even dare to try that at any Iron area. When I do I'll add the results to this post.
-
*resurrects an old thread*
In the course of adjusting something for this next update, I found a fairly decent source of iron on Central, and one that's not too far from 2 crafting centers. Granted, it's in a place where people usually don't bother exploring, but I'll say this:
Remember your spirit of exploration and you might, just might find something different for a change of pace.
And you might find something else as a bonus. ;)
*Cheshire cat grin*