Mangled metal from weapon crafting

[Chazzler]

Could it be possible to make weapons give the same percentage of mangled metal for ingots per try upon a failed crafting attempt as there is for armor crafting?

Nowadays the mangled metal is as follows.
Full plate = 10 ingots, failed crafting attempt yields 5 mangled metal.
Large Shield = 5 ingots, failed attempt yields 2 mangled metal
Dwarven Waraxe = 10 ingots, failed attempt yields 1 mangled metal
And all other weapons yield only 1 mangled metal per failed attempt as well.

Thanks for considering

[Jilseponie Wyndon]

There previous threads speak on the attempts of your suggestion (search brought these up):

http://forums.layonara.com/cnr-suggestions-discussion/254932-ignot-recycling.html

http://forums.layonara.com/fixed-bugs/199632-ingot-recycler-does-not-recycle-mangled-silver.html

http://forums.layonara.com/cnr-suggestions-discussion/230532-weapons-ingots.html

[Chazzler]

Well, I was not bringing up the weapon -> to ingots by recipe adding, I was bringing up a different matter.

[Jilseponie Wyndon]

Sorry, just tossed that one in in case you wanted to expand upon your original question since it is somewhat related.  My apologies.

[Chazzler]

NP Jil

Oh, and this thread I should probably have posted at CNR Discussions. So please move this there. Cheers

[Masterjack]

Thread moved

[s0ulz]

Since Chazzler hasn't gotten much feedback about this topic, I'll start it off by saying that I think this has merit. Sure, you can argue about the finesse involved in weaponcrafting and the metalworking involved differs drastically and leaves less large chunks of metal for resmelting, but I think it should be on par with armor-crafting - 50% or rounded down as mangled ingots. It's hardly abusable and leaves a bit more enjoyment into the whole craft.

[Guardian 452]

Long ago one could toss crafted weapons into the recycler and get I beleive half the metal back it took to make it (in ingots). That was deemed as abusive and removed.

But getting half the recipie amount of mangled metal back from a failure sounds much more reasonable, and on par with armor crafting IMO.


G-452

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[Hellblazer]

I am all for the idea. After all if you make an armor or a weapon out of the metal you use. Melting it should give you roughly the same amount of metal back. I think that the +/- 40-50% of ingots back is a good idea. It will be one step closer to fixing the problem of the unlimited flood of gold. Why? because the person that fails his attempt doesn't have to go back again to hunting to get to his cnr, amassing gold and items in the process as often as if he didn't get anything back.

Also, if someone spends less time gathering, it gives them more time to rp with other people. Which is not a bad thing.

It should only be for the metal though, any wood or leather (if there i any recipe with that in there) should not give those back.

[Dorganath]

Also, if someone spends less time gathering, it gives them more time to rp with other people. Which is not a bad thing.

Just to play devil's advocate here...and feel free to treat these as rhetorical questions.

But why should weapon/armor crafting be treated more specially than any other craft?

How many other crafts are there out there that give you back a portion of the raw CNR when you fail? Sure, it's realistic in the case of metal-working, but I have a problem with the logic that states that somehow RP in the world will increase when fewer people are running to get metal. Are RP and CNR-gathering somehow mutually exclusive?

What about all the people who go for emeralds? Diamonds? Ancient Dire Bear hides? Mahogany? Yew? Rubies?   What about all the time and effort spent to make a single high-level scroll where failure yields nothing but a single glass vial that costs 1GP?

For clarity, I am sympathetic to the original request, and I'm not arguing against it or for it at this point. I just want everyone to remember that what is required and returned for crafting is more a matter of balancing the many factors involved (time, speed, resources, power level, etc.) than anything else. The other point is that getting valuable, usable products back after failure  is a pretty significant benefit already, so asking for even more is potentially unbalancing, however justified it may seem.

[Guardian 452]

If we were talking say a 1 to 1 return here I'd agree that is too much and will most certainly just be abused.

But say I attept to make a small shield.
That takes 4 ingots of "X" metal. If I fail I get 2 mangled chunks back. I can recycle those into 2 ingots. So I cant even turn around and make another shield unless I have more metal on me.

Even 1 mangled peice on weapon failure would be "something" IMO. Which right now only 1 out of all the weapon recipies does this. I'm still voting for half returned as mangled for now though.

G-452

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[Hellblazer]

How many other crafts are there out there that give you back a portion of the raw CNR when you fail? Sure, it's realistic in the case of metal-working, but I have a problem with the logic that states that somehow RP in the world will increase when fewer people are running to get metal. Are RP and CNR-gathering somehow mutually exclusive?

That's how I do thing actually hehe so no I agree with you, but still. It would give more time to do other things than gathering constantly. Beide it's simple logic that getting metal back from a failure would happen. The different between the others craft is that the other material needed would simply be completely spoiled, skin shrunk or burned, wood turn to charcoal, feathers singed etc. Metal on the other hand could be remelted and reused.

[Dorganath]

Yep, understood. I'm just saying we can't rely on the "gives people time to do other stuff" angle as a justification here, since other crafts don't have that (very significant) benefit.

[Guardian 452]

Simple logic doesnt always apply to a fantasy world.....

*finds a halberd on a snake*  *loots Full plate armor off a fairy*  *watches a skeleton kill its self with a potion*

Besides, that time to do "other stuff".... most would just do that much more crafting. *raises hand*

Im still for the idea in one shape or another. Thanks for considering it.

G-452

[Nehetsrev]

Perhaps instead then we should be asking to take away the ability to gain mangled metal from failed armor-crafting attempts, so that it's more balanced with all the other crafts?  If it's about balance and fairness from one craft to the next, wouldn't that be the simplest and easiest solution?  While we're at it, let's remove the receiving of flawed gems and gem dusts from failed gem-crafting attempts.
 
 If the otherwise useless mangled metals and flawed gems are removed from the item palette after all, it would free up more space in the palette for more useful and nifty drop-items or higher-level recipe items, or something...

[Guardian 452]

Armor crafting isnt the only thing that gives back mangled metal

If the palette is "that close" to full then I would imagine many other areas where some "fat" could be trimmed as well.  (perhaps a good idea for another thread?).

Flawed gems are turned into dust (which im sure you know). Doing so potentially advances your gemcrafting skills in the process (unless it happens to be a trivial gem). I would like to see that remain as is. (but if you wish make a new thread requesting such a change)

If I mess up making a sword, Id think I could melt down the leftovers and try again. I could see getting say piece back on failed tailoring attempts... (but that needs it's own thread honestly).

[Hellblazer]

There is other ways to clean the palette, duplicate items for one thing. But that's an other talk all together. I wouldn't want to see the armor crafting not returning mangle ore as it takes an astronomical amount in the first place, 40 nuggets to make a full plate of cobalt for instance is really a lot, imagine when it was 5-6 nuggets per ingot before the update that dropped that to 4.