More Diversity in Leather Requirements

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

So, in the Malar ~ Balancing thread, it was brought up that A) far too many recipes require malar leather, or rather, far too few require anything else, and B) someone should start a new thread adressing this.

So B's solved. Let's figure out A.

[OldBear]

Well one place to start would be to take malor skins out of the eqation for mahogany shields.  That wood is allready hard to get and a lesser hide would seem to make more sense, since I would guess it is only used to bind the planks together ie. leather strips.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Actually, it is wrapped tightly around the shield itself... You get the planks of wood, then either wrap it 'round with a band of metal, or cover the whole thing with leather (TIGHTLY) and boil it in oil to harden it.

I would think dire wolf hide would be fine for this... Or dire bear. Dire bear's some tough stuff.

[AeonBlues]

*big grins*  Thanks guys, I didn't want to push the issue and then seem annoying.

The big point here is that Malar is used to make nice bags.  This drives up the demand for hides, and makes the poor malars over hunted, as they are also used for a very nice armor, a very nice hood, gloves, and slings.

As for shield, I am not sure what Yew uses but I strongly suspect it is dire bear.  Dire bear is used for the +3 monk gloves so it follows suite.  I agree that dire wolf would be a good trade, as dire wolf armor has the same LR as malar armor.  Dire boar perhaps would also be good I think.

It also be a good idea to switch out the oak shield leather, lion, as lions are used for bags as well.  Worg, lepord, or jaguar would be good trade offs for the lions I think.  Wolf is used for hickory, so sticking to the canine family seems clever enough for shields.

So, I think this list would make for very good RP on our wood shield crafting.

Hickory ~ Wolf
Oak ~ Worg
Mahogany ~ Dire wolf
Yew ~ Hill hound

Bear family would also work good

Hickory ~ Black bear
Oak ~ Brown bear
Mahogany ~ Grizzly bear
Yew ~ Dire bear

Aeon Blues

[ycleption]

I would also like to point out that malar is used in all the class specific armors. Even the lesser versions of mage, monk and rogue armors, which are a relatively low-level recipe (they are trivial for me as a level 11 tailor) use a malar hide. I don't know what a suitable replacement would be,  but I think if you are adjusting things, that would be another one to consider.

[Acacea]

I like them for the class-specific ones, particularly the mage armors. The blood panthers were bred specifically to hunt the Weavegifted; it seems somehow appropriate that the mages turn around and use the properties in their hides to enhance their abilities and protect them from harm.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Sure, I'll go with that for the Mage armor, but what about Monk?

Honestly, I don't know the tailoring trade very well, so I'll leave most of the suggestions to you guys, but... I think perhaps that another, equivalent hide should be used for monk.

[Acacea]

I don't see anything wrong with a substitute for the monk threads. That is, I can justify malar being used, but I could probably justify just about anything being used. And it's not leather like the rogue armor is.

[aragwen]

 
 Hickory ~ Wolf
 Oak ~ Worg
 Mahogany ~ Dire wolf
 Yew ~ Hill hound
 
 Bear family would also work good
 
 Hickory ~ Black bear
 Oak ~ Brown bear
 Mahogany ~ Grizzly bear
 Yew ~ Dire bear
 
 Aeon Blues

 
 Currently Yew shields use "ancient dire bear" and I think that should stay as is. Remember a yew shield is the equivalent of a mithril shield, so should be very hard and rare.
 
 Currenly Mahogany use malar and that is the one that needs to change probably and I would suggest "dire bear".
 
 Dont know what Hickory and Oak uses but I would leave them as is, except if you have your mind set on changing them, which I would then use "grizzly bear" for Oak and "brown bear" for hickory.
 
 So in summary I would suggest the following for shields:
 
 Hickory ~ Brown bear
 Oak ~ Grizzly bear
 Mahogany ~ Dire bear
 Yew ~ Ancient Dire bear

[aragwen]

As for class-specific armors I would suggest the following:
 
 Mage - Malar
 Monk - Dire Tiger
 Rogue - Dire Wolf

[Serissa]

The Hood of Shadows, worn by Assassins and Rogues at level 9, takes four malar hides.  I'd very much like to see that changed.  No way is it worth half a malar bag.  Perhaps 4 dire wolf hides and a couple of essences of vanishing would work?
 
 And while we're on the subject of changes in leathercrafting, I'd like to see a change in the level requirement for the Cape of the North.  Level 12 seems much too high a requirement for "improved saving throw cold +5".  I wonder whether the benefit was reduced some time in the past without a similar reduction in level?

[ycleption]

As for class-specific armors I would suggest the following:
 
 Mage - Malar
 Monk - Dire Tiger
 Rogue - Dire Wolf

Personally I think it should be split by level of robe rather than class. The greater versions of these are fairly significant items, more than the equal of adamantium reinforced clothing so the malar is probably appropriate, but the lesser versions shouldn't be that difficult, in my opinion. All of these leathers, by the time a tailor has a reasonable chance to tan them, the lesser versions are trivial to craft; I don't think I can even tan dire tiger at the moment, (lvl 11 tailor)... I think the malar=mage killer connection is nice, make sense and all; it just doesn't make sense to me to have items with components that are out of the reach of people with the appropriate level to make them.
Of course, the alternative is just to make them harder to craft. *shrugs*

[AeonBlues]

The Hood of Shadows, worn by Assassins and Rogues at level 9, takes four malar hides.  I'd very much like to see that changed.  No way is it worth half a malar bag.  Perhaps 4 dire wolf hides and a couple of essences of vanishing would work?
 
 And while we're on the subject of changes in leathercrafting, I'd like to see a change in the level requirement for the Cape of the North.  Level 12 seems much too high a requirement for "improved saving throw cold +5".  I wonder whether the benefit was reduced some time in the past without a similar reduction in level?

I don't recommend changing hood of shadows.  It also uses 2 panther leathers.  The thing bout this item is it is +5 Hide/Move silently.  Both Panther and Malar (Which is a type of panther) are the ones associated with sneaking.

AeonBlues

[lonnarin]

The panther capes use just panther leather and give +3 hide/move silent.  Such a low level item with mundane bonuses should not ever use something as rare as a malar in them... to do is is to presume that every lvl 9 rogue has an extra 20k stashed away.  Might be true for some fighters, but those who play rogues, bards and mages... IE: classes that can't solo gold easily really don't have that kind of access.   Why would a leather crafter even bother making 2 malar bags worth of hide into a lvl 9 item?  Seems like throwing gold in the trashbin to me, and one of the many reasons one rarely sees these hoods in stock.  

For the sake of the environment, we MUST find replacements for malar in most of the recipes.  If we do not, then those who bear wooden shields, leather armors, decent gloves and the like will feel the wrath of the Treefather.  Or Mittens, the ancient dire siamese kitten of doom.

[OldBear]

I believe the oak shields use lion skins.  The tower shield requires four lion leathers.