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Author Topic: Trap in hidden monk enclave not recoverable  (Read 247 times)

davidhoff

Trap in hidden monk enclave not recoverable
« on: September 03, 2017, 03:47:15 am »
Description: The holy trap on the final room door in the Hidden Monk Enclave in Corrsain - Blackwoods is not recoverable, but it used to be.Location: Corrsain - Blackwood; Hidden Monk Enclave; Final room doorVerified: Yes. Reproducable: Yes.  I tried to recover it with Corky and could not because the option on the radial menu was not present (light grey color), so I sent Tralek in to try and recover thinking it was a non-rogue issue, but he as well had no option to recover.  So, I disabled it with Tralek and then sent Corky back in a couple days later and still no recover option.  The only way Corky can get past traps higher than level 35 is to recover them, because he has no rogue levels; he can recover any trap as long as he can beat the DC; which he does in this case.  This trap has been recoverable in the past. 
 

Acacea

Alas, memory fails us all
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2017, 09:00:42 pm »

Alas, memory fails us all with time! :) If you're talking about the room with the Grandmaster (Strong Holy Trap), I checked it out and the trap on the door is a respawning one. One-shot traps are gone til server reset and can be disarmed or recovered, but respawning ones can only be disarmed... because they'll be back shortly. Unless "used to be recoverable" was 8+ years ago (who knows!), you may be thinking of another area, because this particular set of areas is aaanciieent and hasn't been touched in a long time. 

Let me know if you think I got the wrong door. 

 

davidhoff

Yes that's the place; with
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2017, 09:22:17 pm »

Yes that's the place; with the Grandmaster (where they say "Ooohhh Dear....You wish you hadn't!"); strong holy trap; one of the static prizes is the Robes of Broken Hope or somesuch.  Corky has very recently been able to recover that trap; probably two or three weeks ago he did it.  He's recovered that trap probably three times total.  I remember a few months ago this same thing happened where the trap was not recoverable, and then later on it became recoverable; I'm not sure what changed it (ie, could have been a server reset, someone else disabling it, etc...not sure).  I would think most respawnable traps would be able to be recovered; whether they are disabled or recovered, they should still respawn.

I can try to recover another respawnable trap at a different location...I have a couple in mind; I'll see if they are recoverable.

Thanks for looking into it.

 

Dorganath

This is most likely not a
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2017, 09:32:44 pm »

This is most likely not a bug....referring of course to the original post.

To be clear, the "bug" would have been this particular trap suddenly becoming recoverable. There have been no updates to that area or the traps within for a very long time. I created the respawning trap system a number of (8+) years ago, and it has been in-place and unaltered for a very, very long time. What is more likely is that a "tired" server caused the associated scripts not to trigger as they should, thus allowing the trap to be recovered due to a glitch. A subsequent reboot of the server restored normal operation.

If you somehow discover that other respawning traps are recoverable, that would, in fact, be a bug. It is not a bug that this normally unrecoverable trap is not recoverable.

 

davidhoff

Corky has discovered that the
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2017, 12:48:47 am »

Corky has discovered that the respawning trap on the door past the rock spiders in the new Screetcher cave in the Great Forest is recoverable and has been recovered by him.  I think it was a deadly fire trap.

 

davidhoff

Corky, Sibiaci and Ryubui
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 03:23:15 pm »

Corky, Sibiaci and Ryubui found a trap on the door to a small room, past the mazes of walkways and Acidic Bones creatures in the Mossy Crypt.  I belive it to be respawnable.  It was recoverable and recovered by Corky.  I will search for more as time permits...

 

Acacea

After your comment on the GF
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2017, 03:12:59 am »

After your comment on the GF trap yesterday, I ran some tests on a handful -- three of the four I tested (the fifth had not respawned for whatever reason) were recoverable... the only one that wasn't recoverable for me was, amusingly, the one in the Warrens :P I haven't commented because I haven't gotten a chance to test if they change states (recoverable/not) after respawning (like if the not-recoverable flag is failing to apply more often than thought), or if there's some difference between them I hadn't been clever enough to discover, yet. Since it started with the Enclave area that really hasn't been edited in ages, I'm guessing it's still along the lines of Dorg's thoughts.

I'm not sure the Mosscrypt one is a respawning one or not - it's not on the list I grabbed, but anything's possible ! I've noticed a few doors named like they have respawning traps but that lack the scripts, too, so it can be hard to tell at a glance if you don't visit often. (Not saying that's the case here, just sayin'.)

Anyway, just an update to say that at this point I'm looking at all of them rather suspiciously :P Hopefully more, soon.

 

davidhoff

Thanks Acacea.  We also went
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2017, 01:12:35 pm »

Thanks Acacea.  We also went to the Thorn River dungeon.  There were two traps that were recoverable on doors on the way down.  At the final treasure room, there was a ground trap infront of the door that was recoverable.  However, the trap on the door was not recoverable .  I will note that neither Ryubi nor Corky could see the trap on the door; neither of those characters have rogue levels and Ryubi's search check is around 75ish buffed; but Ryubi's pixie could see the trap and flagged it so Corky could try and recover.  The pixie also did not have the option to recover it.  There was a trap on the chest inside, but the pixie auto disarmed that one...so we didn't get a chance to test it...pesky overachieving pixie.  We'll try the chest soon.

 

Dorganath

I'm starting to wonder
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2017, 10:47:53 pm »

I'm starting to wonder whether there's come confusion as to what constitutes a "respawning" trap.

There's some traps which go off every time they're triggered, but these are not "respawning" traps. There are a lot of these in-game.

There are some traps which can be disarmed and which come back some time later. There are a very few of these in-game and are always on doors, chests or other containers. Most of the ones listed above are not truly respawning traps.

For example, the ones "on the way down" in Thorn are just normal traps for sure. That they're recoverable (or possibly not) is as things are designed. There are 1-2 truly respawning traps in Thorn, and we're testing those to make sure they're working as intended.

As a general rule, we're not going to go in and change things like recoverability or DC unless we see for some reason things are not well-balanced in one direction or the other. This leaves the most likely cause of this alleged variation in results as either "luck of the draw" or some kind of runtime hiccup, neither of which is considered a bug (though it may be considered a time to reset the module!).

If a trap is truly a respawning trap and is somehow recoverable, that is definitely a bug (or at least a transient malfunction), but any fix for that would be to make it non-recoverable, not the other way around.

So anyway, this is a long-winded way of saying that this post has drawn our attention to traps which should not be recoverable but possibly have been recovered all the same...and so for that, thanks!

 

davidhoff

Well I'm not giving any more
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2017, 12:04:54 am »

Well I'm not giving any more locations then!:)  But as an update, the final chest in Thorn River has a trap on it and it was not recoverable.  Thanks for looking into this for me; I was kinda curious what you're guys take on it was and if it needed any fixing.  Looks like it's in the realm of "it is what it is" kinda thing.  In the meantime Corky will continue his pursuit to recover traps of all types for his collection.

As a side note, I too am still unsure what is considered to be a true "respawnable" trap.

 

Dorganath

davidhoff wrote:As a side
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2017, 08:25:44 am »

Quote from: "davidhoff"&cid="2763072"

As a side note, I too am still unsure what is considered to be a true "respawnable" trap.

Without giving any real specifics, there are a few traps set on chests and doors which can be disarmed but not recovered (at least by design intent!). These specific traps "respawn" after a period of time to become active again, and these traps are specifically forced (through scripting) to not be recoverable. This system was developed and often used in conjunction with another system of self-relocking doors/chests/etc. Such locks can be picked/unlocked, and at some later time, they'll re-lock themselves anew. There is at least one of these in the Hidden Monk Enclave, there is at least one of these in the Thorn Dungeon. There are a few others here and there within the module, and primarily at/near "boss" areas.

There's another layer or to as to how this all works together, where (and why) the system is used, etc., but the gist is that there is a mechanical behavior in use that is atypical of how traps normally work.

Understandably, from a player's perspective, what respawns and what doesn't isn't always obvious...which is kind of the point!

 

orth

Re: Trap in hidden monk enclave not recoverable
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2019, 11:02:54 pm »
Digging into this more I discovered twenty or so traps that are not supposed to be recoverable that were the first time they spawned with a reset (but then weren't thereafter)

Fixed in next update.
 
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