"Spotting" Invisibility

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

It recently came up, IG (in Tells) that a Spot Check could be used to percieve an invisible person.

Well, sure, if you have 20+ ranks. Invisibility adds +20 to a person's Hide checks... +40 if they're not moving.

Listen, however...

When we see a ghosty version of an invisible person on the screen, that's our auto-Listen checks going.

However, I was told by the person in Tells that they had been told on previous occasions to attempt to percieve an invisible character with Spot Checks. I can't see how a Spot Check would do it, seeing as there's nothing to be spotted.

Just wanted to clear this up, and get lambasted in case I'm totally wrong.

[ZeroVega]

I'm not sure how EXACTLY invisibility works, but here's a few things that may cause one to be able to "see" an invisible person.

Dust rising from a road.
Footprints in the grass or mud.
Rain rolling off an invisible person (though this in its self would take a great spot check).

Also I agree, listen would be the logical check, but I also believe that it would take at least a certain number of ranks in listen (rather than rolling a lucky 20) to even be able to tell where the sound was coming from. I don't know about you folks but I have pretty good hearing; percieving, however, where the sounds come from is another story.

So... yeah. In a perfect world we'd have nifty spots and listens and different effects of invisibility, sadly we don't.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#invisibility

[Ozy_Llewellyn]

In campaigns I have run in the past, invisibility and its detection have always been treated as an active check. Furthermore it does require reason and a situation where it’s even possible. While these are not Leanther’s rulings upon the subject it is a decent thing to go off until he informs us of his decision. Invisibility itself is a low level illusion so it purely twists the light around a person to render them unseen nothing more, while improved invisibility at 4th level muffles sounds and dulls scent. In general the spell according to the DM guide only projects approximately one foot from the recipient.

Situations where it is possible would be the first criteria:
Zero Vega’s: Dust in the road, footprints that mysteriously end both would qualify.
Not to mention other reasonable occurrences, standing in a waterfall.

The second criteria would be a reason to check otherwise its null and void all together.
Walking in a dungeon is a reason to be checking active or Elvin alertness in appliance.
Enemy wizard just turned himself invisible is another one.
Standing in the middle of a town talking with someone isn’t. Even if the person walked up in front of you, it’s almost impossible to suggest noticing. After all, would you be thinking to check for invisible people?

However Listen makes it tricky, in general a person wearing heavy armor would be detected in any reasonable situation. However a magic user probably would be completely undetectable outside of a circumstance where you have a favorable bonus. Even elves with their keen senses, in normal life just wouldn’t notice.

Thus that invisible person walking up beside you is more engine coding then actuality. To spot them you would have to be faced the right direction, have a reason to be looking for something amiss in the first place and then make the check which could easily be far beyond a roll of 20. Or you could hear them but once again, a reason in which to hear something amiss and consider it an invisible person. Secondly mental recognition something is amiss and thus possibly an invisible person, how many people consider every snapping twig or rustle in the grass an invisible person out to get them after all. Finally the check may be impossible if there is nose in the background louder then they are, normally a person can and will only hear the loudest noise.

[Varka]

Varka:
Spot skill: 0
Listen skill: somewhere around 20-24 with items:

Sometimes Varka can "see" folks running pass him but let me sure you all. "These folks" (mages, bards) have to be really close.
I can not remember though if this only occurred in town.

[Acacea]

Varka - 6/14/2006  9:46 PM  Varka:  Spot skill: 0  Listen skill: somewhere around 20-24 with items:   Sometimes Varka can "see" folks running pass him but let me sure you all. "These folks" (mages, bards) have to be really close.  I can not remember though if this only occurred in town.

 Yes, if an invisible person is close enough to sense (or run into), they are seen as transparent on the screen until they move out of range. Sometimes after, which is a pain because you're stuck with that little image of them even though they aren't there anymore. It's more of a "you can sense someone right beside you" than a brief time that they are suddenly visible, which confuses a lot of people.  (I miss seeing Harg and Varka together... Aye! Nay...)

[Varka]

Aye *nods and looks around*

[Talan Va'lash]

What Ozy said is a good guide.

If you're in  hlint you're not going to respond to the aural clues that an invisible person is approaching because theres no reason that footsteps some distance behind you would be odd.  There are tons of people walking throughout  hilnt (more than you can see IG as commoners arent represented visually IG even though they're there.)

I just referenced the (3.5) invisibility spell description and there is no provision for a spot check at all except under extenuating circumstances such as stepping into a puddle (which would make a splash) or if your presence is detectable through your manipulation of the objects around you.

[Rowana]

*eyes dart around* -if- you happen to being hunted by assassins that have been striking everywhere, including in towns, you my be spot checking for invisible constantly.... *starts to  cast see invis and realises she's out of that spell for the day and starts spot checking*

[Talan Va'lash]

Rowana - 6/16/2006  5:48 PM

*eyes dart around* -if- you happen to being hunted by assassins that have been striking everywhere, including in towns, you my be spot checking for invisible constantly.... *starts to  cast see invis and realises she's out of that spell for the day and starts spot checking*

Listen checking would be more usefull

[Chongo]

Silence knocks out all challenges against move silently...

 

[Rowana]

Talan Va'lash - 6/17/2006  5:13 AM

Rowana - 6/16/2006  5:48 PM

*eyes dart around* -if- you happen to being hunted by assassins that have been striking everywhere, including in towns, you my be spot checking for invisible constantly.... *starts to  cast see invis and realises she's out of that spell for the day and starts spot checking*

Listen checking would be more usefull

Actually she usually does both when she is feeling paranoid... which is most of the time.

[Talan Va'lash]

Chongo - 6/17/2006  9:31 AM

Silence knocks out all challenges against move silently...

 

well, mechanics wise it gives you a +50 MS

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Beat me to it, Talan.

You must use the sourcebooks as much as I do. o.o

[Chongo]

Talan Va'lash - 6/18/2006  2:56 AM

Chongo - 6/17/2006  9:31 AM

Silence knocks out all challenges against move silently...

 

well, mechanics wise it gives you a +50 MS

Not default it doesn't.  Layo change it?

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Chongo - 6/19/2006  2:20 AM

Talan Va'lash - 6/18/2006  2:56 AM

Chongo - 6/17/2006  9:31 AM

Silence knocks out all challenges against move silently...

 

well, mechanics wise it gives you a +50 MS

Not default it doesn't.  Layo change it?

PnP, TV. It SHOULD give +50 MS.