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Author Topic: "the dark ages of layonara"  (Read 311 times)

Taislin

"the dark ages of layonara"
« on: February 05, 2007, 02:50:49 pm »
Well first of all i think i waited to much time to write the post. Im sorry if my english is not good enought but i have some things i would like to say about the server.

Well has many of you know my characters are Taislin Burrik and Erugor, and i play one this server now for more then 1 year. Some of my friends also played layo (Taislin whoolhands and gelden sezenem) and we have some things to say.

Since i joined that i dont agree with the CN rule. Evil charaters its ok. But CN its diferent. Has i know for CN you need to have played at least 2 months or so and have a character lvl 10. Witht he 2 months I agree it gives time to dms and players to see how good is your roleplay. But i tottaly disagree with a lvl 10 character. This means that a person that has a character lvl 10 roleplays better then i do a CN character? I dont think so. My chars are lvl 8 because i ive most of my time to roleplay. This takes me time of getting xp. So if a guy gets here and gets lvl 10 in 2 months he is able to have a CN character. Is it fair? Its Plvl against RP. Has it seems with plvl you roleplay better a CN character.

Ok the second topic is related with a part of the first: PLVL. For me people spend to much time killing monsters and few doing whats important : roleplay. If you check the server status almost more then 50% of people are lvl 15+. When i joined there were few lvl 20+. I see people getting in hlint and saying "Hey some one wants to kill ogres?". It seems that killing monsters is a sport.

Dm quest. I do think its good to have them but people abuse from them. Every day there is one quest and there are people that go to all. Easy xp. Instead of putting all quest on the calendar (like there was a calendar like that in hlint) dms should do like surprise quest to reward good roleplay players.

Finally I want to talka bout the roleplay himself. Its getting worse with time and its making layo going into "the dark ages". When i joined the server the roleplay was excelent. First i was one of those ooc players but some good-hearted players lost some of their ROLEPLAY time to teach me how to do it. Has i said to some players those where the gold ages of layo. I give the example of my characters. For his actions Taislin had a trial and went to jail 2 times. Its natural has he is a theif (assumed). Well now i just present myself has always (Taislin Burrik, the Theif of Hlint) and people just say "well meet". Is it normall? Now my orc example. WHen i created him people reacted him has the orc he was "Orc in town!!!". I have to give the example of one of my faavourite DMs Dm Orion that with his character made an exelent roleplay with my character. Now people just see and orc and say nothing has it was normall to see an orc in hlint. Roleplay is really bad now and this has made my friends (Taislin and Gelden) to leave the server. Well of course i get sad when this happens. People giving up from a great server that layo was. More then 2 great roleplayers were lost. I could stay all the night (or day) telling you about the old times of layo, about the great roleplay but i think my point of view is said. Things like this were said before by a player which I cant remember the name. And i think it was time for some one to say it. I think many other players agree with me and i just ask Leanther, the DM team, and all the other players that lost some quest or some hunt to the ogres to tell what you think.

P.S: Still thinking if I should leave the server or no. Layo was and is part of my life (a good part), a part that I would like to lose. I think this server can get the best of all again.
 

Charos Outlander

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    Re: "the dark ages of layonara"
    « Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 03:08:55 pm »
    I'd like to say that I agree with alot of your points.

    Like you, none of my characters are above level 10. Charos, my oldest, is only 9th. Theres a simple reason for this, role play.  Anyone that knows me knows that I try and stay away from large groups (7+ people) because generally it turns into a slaughterfest where you just roam the server killing all in their path. While great for experiance, it really kills the role play for me. My ideal group is 4-6 people that i know and like to role play with. Thats where the fun is for me personally.  If the groups get too large, or i lose my taste fro the role play in that group.. my character will move on.  As i've said, anyone that knows me, knows this to be true.

    Your point about random surprise quests is one of the things im unsure of. Back when I played Charos as my main character i remember several instances where myself and Geld would run into random encounters with GM's that werent set ahead of time, a couple specifically for our groups. I'm sure they still do this (the gm's) just not as often as i remember.

    Well.. i just cought yer post and wanted to give my 2-jink =)
    I hope you don't leave, that trial was fun and i hope we get more of that soon.

    Charos Outlander
    Jarod Flamewielder
    Liatsh
     

    Pen N Popper

    RE: "the dark ages of layonara"
    « Reply #2 on: February 05, 2007, 05:00:49 pm »
    I agree. I spend far too much time with my PCs hack&slashing for XP. I'll try to pay more attention to the details of RP.
      Sincerely, PnP
     

    scifibarbie

    RE: "the dark ages of layonara"
    « Reply #3 on: February 05, 2007, 05:04:57 pm »
    Just to point out. Good RP is rewarded quite frequently by DM's.
      It may not happen all the time, but if you area having a good RP session, many times a DM will reward with xp if they catch it.
      As far as quests go. I have been on several impromptu quests that just happen. I know of a few DM's who have done this. And they are usually alot of fun. Many DM's may throw one out to a group who is having alot of good RP amongst themselves and not just hack and slashing their way around.
      Everyone here has been thru the hack/slash bit at least once or twce in their time here, but RP is still king.
      Just my experience.
     

    Dorganath

    RE: "the dark ages of layonara"
    « Reply #4 on: February 05, 2007, 05:06:02 pm »
    The issue with CN is that it's a very easy alignment to play poorly and a difficult alignment to play well.
      Far, far too often, the CN alignment is used as an excuse to play a character with completely random behavior, often bordering on or crossing into Evil territory, all the while hiding behind the relative freedom that CN implies. To put it another way, people can, and have, stretched the boundaries of RP by picking CN and simply assuming it allows them to act however they wish. It is exactly this kind of behavior that we are trying to prevent, because it is not good RP...it's RPing to the lowest common denominator.
      I've played with GMs who absolutely forbid the CN alignment because people gravitate toward extremes of behavior without having to fear consequences of straying from one's alignment.
      Though perhaps the most important reason is that Leanthar wants CN to be something that is earned as a reward for proven RP, not just given out by request.
     

    Zergon

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      Re: "the dark ages of layonara"
      « Reply #5 on: February 05, 2007, 05:15:25 pm »
      I disagree.

      I think that maybe you are just meeting the wrong people, or maybe it's because you don't have a character above level 7 so your limited to mistone, and Hlint; the town where all the new players hang out.
      I have been playing 8 months now, and I see good role playing going on every day. Of course I see a little bad now and then... but not everyone has time every day to sit and chat chat chat.
      Nor, I assume, do they always have something to say.
      I role play plenty on the server... and yes most of it is just to go out and Hack up some monsters... but my character is an adventurer... sitting around town is not an adventure... helping someone take down Giants to mine minerals or ore... now that is adventure!
      If you want to make a house wife character that sits around and yaps all day in town that's totally fine... but no adrenaline rush... where is the fun? I role play the entire time i'm out and about... dangerous or not
      I'm also online playing on the server more than any other character here....
       

      Charos Outlander

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        Re: "the dark ages of layonara"
        « Reply #6 on: February 05, 2007, 05:28:35 pm »
        Guess I'm a housewife character.  Maybe its time to take a break for a while.  Maybe Taislin's right.

        yes, going out to help somebody mine ore and killing along the way is good, its fun and it makes sense. but in general thats not what alot of the people do... there are plenty that just pop up and say "hey lets go to dregar, i need to level" Thats not role play, thats going to slaughter stuff mindlessly and *maybe* get some ore/craftable recources along the way.  Those are the groups that I avoid at all costs. If it makes me a house wife, hey whatever. Hand me a frying pan and diaper bag and lets get to role playing.

        Charos Outlander
        Jarod Flamewielder
        Liatsh
         

        Zergon

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          Re: "the dark ages of layonara"
          « Reply #7 on: February 05, 2007, 05:35:36 pm »
          charos your talking about out of character talk... and tells... if you can't separate those from rp then maybe a break is in order... i've never heard anyone say they need a level in character... and not get bashed in the head by everyone around them for bad rp
           

          Zergon

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            Re: "the dark ages of layonara"
            « Reply #8 on: February 05, 2007, 05:38:21 pm »
            i think most of the people complaining about rp are the ones that aren't so hot at it themselves
             

            Dorganath

            RE: "the dark ages of layonara"
            « Reply #9 on: February 05, 2007, 05:45:12 pm »
            Only going to say this once....
              The second this thread turns into finger pointing, accusations and criticisms of other players, it's getting locked.
              Thank you, and have a nice day.
             

            Stephen_Zuckerman

            Re: "the dark ages of layonara"
            « Reply #10 on: February 05, 2007, 05:49:24 pm »
            Alright, sniping's not needed, Zergon, and is detrimental to a reasonable conversation.

            Now, if there's people actually talking about needing to level... Och. There are several people I've seen who just cannot lay off the OOC, and I gripe at them about it every single time. Sure, I talk out of character a lot... But that's in Tells, with people I can actually have a conversation with. And I don't sacrifice RP for it.

            If you see people blatantly speaking in OOC terms, tell them not to.

            I usually try to handle it IC... "Hey, you broke my rest!" "Er... How does one... Break a rest? By... Waking up? Uh..."

            "Save your buffs for the harder stuff!" "Aye, I've just had new tile put into the guildhall; I'll get you the wax so you can start shining."

            But there does come a point at which it just gets to be too much to handle IC, at which point, don't feel bad about telling them what they're doing wrong in Tells. Seeing 1 instead of one really tends to break my immersion...

            So yeah. If people are spouting OOC, yell at them about it.
             

            Tanman

            Re: "the dark ages of layonara"
            « Reply #11 on: February 05, 2007, 05:59:06 pm »
            I agree with Dorganath about the CN alignment rules and I think that it most cases I think it should be more restricted.

            However, I do agree with Taislin that there should be more spontaneous adventures by DMs. It gives a chance for people who otherwise would not get a chance to get a wonderful surprise. I know of 3 DMs that did a spontaneous quest out of of the six months that I have been here. I know that some DMs are a bit weary of springing a surprise trap thereby killing a character...*grins* but a spontaneous adventure does not have to start out that way. Some examples of how a quest can start out is a random encounter. If I may name two DMs who do this wonderfully:

            Coyote and Rowana.

            On Rowana's scheduled quest "Holding On", I believe it all started when there was a mysterious child's coming from the trash can in Hlint. This spawned a semi quest series where anyone could join.

            Coyote is another. Just out of the blue while my character was crafting in Moraken's, instantly an imp  appeared and a RP spawned from that. These two DMs have done this style of spontaneous quests a few times.

            In regard to RP with other creatures I agree with Taislin that the RP is getting worse. To me...and I don't know if its the right term to use(I would invite anybody to correct my wording)..but they 'metagame' a bit. If people happen to see that an half orc/goblin/drow that is a player then they instantly start to assume that the PC would be friendly. So they RP with them in that manner. With V3 coming in shortly and the new rules regarding alignment for these races, I am thinking this would slowly change, and people will understand the true nature of them, and 'hopefully RP them accordingly.

            On the flipside to why I sometimes just ignore these races in Hlint is that some players hide behind the non PvP rule. That is the player knowing full well that there is no way that a PvP can take place without a GM/WL witnessing the whole course of events. I remember RP with one of my characters was having an argument with a half orc. The half orc kept on the argument even  though my character was making threats to slice him with high intimidate checks. If it was played out properly there would have been a check by the Half orc and if the counter roll was low then it would have been RP respectively. This was never done, so I thought what is the point?

             

            Witch Hunter

            Re: "the dark ages of layonara"
            « Reply #12 on: February 05, 2007, 06:00:58 pm »
            Both sides have correct points, here's my 2 jink.


            A) I think everyone can agree we are all "not normal" as characters, we play people who have stories behind them and goals - be them minor or major.
            Our characters, as such, are expected to do things beyond what say.. Farmer Joe of Hlint would be doing. This includes (and by no means limited to):
            Hunting baddies, Traveling, Doing acts of good/evil etc etc etc... they don't "Sit around in Hlint all day to talk" - although some do and that's fine.

            But you gotta remember we play PCs not NPCs, which is the key pharse.

            B) What you said about reacting to orcs in town and such - as far as I consider it - is totally correct.
            Although my regular character Hector has no problem with them it's only because he finds them useful (Heh, mind you I enslaved Eru for a long time!)
            But my other characters react badly, this also goes for Drow (which are over populated!) and any other "unatrual" being.

            Especially since now is the "Dark Ages" more people should be suspecious and paranoid rather than "Hah! an orc in town! Splendid! let us go on an adventure!!!!11" attitude.


            And lastly... Hunting monsters is by no means "Not roleplaying" nor "Powergaming"... mind you, 95% of Layonara is full of monsters.
            just because you stay in town doesn't mean you're the better roleplayer, I've had quite a few interesting sessions on the road and even more during hunts, not to mention a few good laughs (Cheers Farros, Czukay, Skabot and Alice!).
            Theres a lot of great experinces to be had outside of town :)


            ~Hector the Mushroom
             

            ShiffDrgnhrt

            Re: "the dark ages of layonara"
            « Reply #13 on: February 05, 2007, 06:04:41 pm »
            WEll I cant say much fer myself because i've only been playing about a month...  (yet I keep looking for a new PC to make which I cant explain) but I always try to RP. Like during those "monster fests"  I always chime in about other characters, display my anger when I and other die, try and get people talkin.  Now I'm not great, im not THAT bad, but recently my PC has been looking for a way to learn.  running around killin stuff is not important to Shiff anymore.  He really just wants to train to become a master swordsman.  Now Pyyran is trying ta teach him [although I have to say running into the Blood Desert by himself is not what he thinks is training] but I do have to say, sometimes in order to be able to RP things like intense training, rivalries, and grudges ya need to be of a high lvl so you can survive.  If Shiff [lvl 8] where to Duel Pyyran [lvl 14?] Shiff would die.  So in that case some lvling can turn a Pyyran butt kicking into an informative RP experience.  But I still have a lot to learn RP wise, so I'll see if I end up being a "Hey I need ta lvl" person or a "Aye, I've just had a new tile put into the guildhall" person.....
             

            Zergon

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              Re: "the dark ages of layonara"
              « Reply #14 on: February 05, 2007, 06:14:01 pm »
              Alright, sniping's not needed, Zergon, and is detrimental to a reasonable conversation.

              Just to point something out Stephen, I wasn't the one sniping.... Charos is... he's talking about my out of character tells that happened once or twice durring my experience on this server and it doesn't belong in this conversation... granted he decided not to name my name when he wrote it... he's talking about me.

              I don't use out of character talk in my role playing unless i slip a bit... playing a character on this server doesn't mean you have to talk like your from the middle ages of earth... not many people are good at it... i see a lot of people that can do it and that is great... i'm not playing my character that way because lets face it... i'm not that great at M'lord and m'lady... and all that jazz... if you are that's great. I'm not.
              I see a lot of people who aren't... we just talk english... the way we know it. and each of our characters has personality for it. I've gotten 45,000 xp points for my role playing in the 8 months i've been here.

              Enough of the defending myself... back to the point.

              I see lots of role playing... and good role playing on this server. Play a good 20+ hours at a time and you will find both good and bad on this server.
              Not only that but you will find role playing that you disagree with, and role playing techniques that you don't understand.

              Everyone has their good days and bad days role playing...
              The thing that matters is that we keep trying...
              The experiences that happen with the people you play with is what is important...

              The friendships you make here matter the most.
               

              Dorganath

              RE: "the dark ages of layonara"
              « Reply #15 on: February 05, 2007, 06:21:04 pm »
              Quote
              Dorganath - 2/5/2007  7:45 PM    Only going to say this once....
                The second this thread turns into finger pointing, accusations and criticisms of other players, it's getting locked.
                Thank you, and have a nice day.
               
               Yep...apparently once isn't enough.
                This thread is locked.
               

               

              anything