Spell Penetration and Layo

[Krell Himmler]

I know that generally speaking, it wasn't much use in most servers and anywhere really for that matter, but I have noticed spell resistance seems to be more common and higher here, I was wondering, do people find that spell penetration/greater spell penetration are worthwhile in Layonara or not really?

[Blackguy]

It might have had a influence for me at some points while I leveled up, but once your past 30 I dont feel any diffrence and Ive taken greater spell penetration. So in retrospect, given a chance to respec I would not take it again.

[Masterjack]

Mage spell penetration is caster level + 1d20 + spell penetration. So the max spell penetration for a caster is 40 + 20 + 6 = 66

Dark Elf Spell resistance is 10 +2/2 level. So the max SR they can have is 10 + 40 = 50

The highest Spell resistance in game is an epic monk who has maxed out on improved spell resistance. His SR rating is monk level +10 + 2 for every improved spell resistance to max 20. So the max SR rating of a monk is 40 + 10 + 20= 70

That is the math, so you can make up your own mind if Spell penetraion is worth getting or not.

[Weeblie]

Dark Elf spell resistance (for PCs, at least) are limited by the maximum spell resistance property giveable to items (being 32-ish).

More so, the numbers are given with a worst case scenario in mind, which doesn't really give full factual truth of how it "really" is. Besides... if a DM wishes to tweek the numbers a little, SR can be manually set for much higher numbers than that.

In the normal cases, spell penetration finds their greatest uses from level 15 to level 27-ish. So, while the spell penetration group of feats might not be the best choices at super high levels, then one has to also consider that it generally takes two years or more to get to those levels. Perhaps the best thing to do is just to wait and see if it's needed, and if so, pick it?

The answer to the first question is heavily dependent on what sort of character one has... and who one's asking...

[lonnarin]

The thing is, in a static standalone mod which progresses evenly, it's not so useful.  In a huge mod like this with so many higher level areas to explore even at epic, those few extra points can be useful from time to time.  Even after you're a pro blasting rift drow, there are still tougher beasties out there with better SR.  I usually take it after I get a few other metamagic feats and greater focus under my belt.  Keep in mind though that SR only accounts for a very small portion of the beasties you'll face, an even then there are ways around their protective cover.  There are a few spells like Assay Resistance I think which can tip the odds in your favor, and no amount of SR can protect against summoned mithral golems, flaming swords and a wall of stoneskinned dwarves.  I think there are also a few spells which you can't use SR to avoid as well, I think I remember something about Evard's Black Tentacles being useful to that extent.  It's not the magic you're resisting, the tentacles are physically there after they've been conjured and such.  (could be different here)  Other perssistant conjured effects like cloudkills however I have seen shrugged off, so I'm not entirely certain what spells fall under SR rules or not.

As for tactics, if you have low spell penetration you can pull things off like aiming fireballs on your monk's head and not worrying about him being singed. So sometimes for mass area effects that extra penetration can be pesky.  I wish there was a metamagic feat like silent and still spell which would raise the effective spell level AND blast through SR,  like a one-level version which granted +4 to the check, and a three-level version which gave a mage an extra roll attempt to break the check.  Another one which granted extra numbers to the DC of the spell like spell focus would be useful too... for 2 feats of metamagic, spell penetration isn't all that useful all the time.

Some of the time though, it can save your kiester.

[Krell Himmler]

I'm weighing up getting the final two metamagic feats (extend spell and maximise) Versus getting greater spell penetration.

[EdTheKet]

Another question is, what would fit for your character.
I didn't take eschew I for example, until after level 20, because he's a mage with lots of pockets to carry components in. And it's rather fun to run out of components and forced to try something else.
Also, as I play him as -the- evoker, I took everything that could boost the evocation spells (like spell penetration), despite the fact that other feats would have made him more powerful.
It's all about flavour too

[Krell Himmler]

I liked the idea of the pure mage, one who can manipulate magic in any way, and given that there remains only two metamagic feats (except still spell but I'll never wear armour) it makes sense for the "pure" mage to specialise in magic to the extent of being able to manipulate it in all ways possible perhaps. I think with RP in mind and also survivability the best choice would be maximise and extend.

[Eight-Bit]

If you're a Wizard you have the feats. If you're a Sorcerer, Cleric, Bard, Ranger or anything else don't bother.