a possible answer for the drow problem

[Allorian]

Haha. Yes, I stated some misinformation earlier, I actually happy that I was corrected, but I could have sworn seeing it on Hlint's page after being told. *shrugs* But, Raine really isn't the problem, its my rogue... Raine is trying to keep his identity covered up; he was badly beaten by witchhunters. But in any case, I agree with you in all cases, misinformation is probably a key aspect in bad RPs.

[Gulnyr]

Allorian - 9/25/2006  8:47 PM

I guess I am just going to have to beat what I am saying so I no longer have to post:

I'm not trying to upset you. I'm trying to understand what you are saying.  I can see by your last statement that you were attempting to explain your own character's actions, but your previous posts looked to me like generalizations regarding the entire interaction between Drow and others.

There were also some absolutes that struck me as odd, such as:

if a drow exposes their deity and that deity is allied with your own, there is no reason why one would not be willing to make friends with that PC or NPC for that matter.

When I read that, it seems very clearly to state that the religion of a given Drow should be the only factor in deciding whether or not to befriend that Drow.  That's what "no reason" means to me in that sentence; "IF Drow's deity = 'Allied' THEN Friends."  Combined with what appeared to me to be a generalization rather than your particular approach with your character, I hope you can understand why I misunderstood.

[Allorian]

I meant that in a way to say why my own character is friendly toward the few drow that he communicates, not a generalization. The setence was a bit vague, that was my fault. I type quick alot and hate to proof read.

[Polak76]

I like a few points that have been illustrated:
Stephen mentioned the rarity of good drow would be something like 1 in a million+.  I think think thats right on the money.  Drizzt wouldn't be special if he had dozens of other good Drow buddies in Forgotten Realms.  Likewise Az'atta wouldn't shine like a beacon on Layo if there were so many others doing the same deeds as her.  The reason these characters are heroes or Gods is becuase they are extremely rare.  On Layo I find it the opposite.  Other than my drow or Hoodlums, I've only ever met one other PC 2years ago that played CN.  It feel that to be rather disappointing.  

Secondly Stephen also mentioned that how do PC's really know what an Az'atta symbol is or who a Lucinite is...etc.  I think many of us metagame too often by claiming our characters know all deities, their symbols, leaders, alignment etc.  I doubt in reality I could tell you all about aspects of christianity or buddism, Islam..etc.

Gulnyr brought up a good point about Drow using their talents of deception to veil themselves as clerics of Az'atta..etc.  That would be the exact sort of thing Drow would do.  Yet we easily accept them at face value (gonna make a personal note to try that tactic one day).

At the end of the day I'm glad we've put a stop on allowing sub-classes at this point in time.  I think all Drow should be treated as evil, and played as CN.  Then only through a series of rigourous CDq's should they be considered for alignemnt shift and alternate Deities.

NB: this is only my opinion.

[Allorian]

Good points and I agree. But as players we are restricted to certain alignments considering we are all technically heroes (few exceptions). And playing a TN drow who masks his identity and yearns to be a normal elf brings me enjoyment :-D.

[AeonBlues]

I wish we could all sit down in a mediated discussion.  The forum thing only goes so far.

We have identified that he drow are a monster race.  The vast  and overwhelming number of drow on Layo are evil.

I think we can all agree on this.

Having a drow walk into town is at least as bad as having an ogre or half gaint, whemic,  goblin, or a tiefling show up in town.

I would like to just point out at this  time, that all we have to do about this, is write into the lore that merchants from just about all races travel the lands and interact in cities and villages.  They have to obey the same rules that everyone else does, but these traveling merchants of exotic goods exist and create level of diversity that makes our game world a fun and interesting place to RP.  Then assume heroes of all races also and exist... and you end up basically where we are today.

If you write this into the lore, then boom, individual of any race are occasionally seen, and probably not pitchforked.  They would be watched and most likely searched with great scrutiny.  While we are making Layo into a perfectly realistic fantasy setting, please inform the deer that they are acting very OOC to any deer I have ever seen.  I think most deer would run from anyone clunking down the road in full plate armor.  I guess my point with that, is there has to be a certain margin of realism that is sacrificed to the fact that we are enjoying a computer game world.

There is the idea that the drow would use the image of Az'atta or just pretending to be good, to spy on  cities and prepare for an invasion.  Well you know, drows are wizards more then any other class.  They love magic.  So they could be the little kitty.  They could be the courier hawk.  They could be invisible.  There are a lot of possibilities that would allow dark elves to spy, and nothing anyone does will ever stop the drow from getting the information that they want.  They could hire a halfling merc to gather the information for them.

Dark Elves enjoy magic, especially releasing its power. They also love sculptures or other crafted items (especially well-made lethal weapons). They also admire physical beauty; Dark Elves are proud of their physique and do not hesitate to show it. This has also led to the custom of slaying all newborns with physical deficiencies." *Evil Grin* I left that last part in just to be fair and objective

So, it seems to be a reasonable concept that there are some drow merchants wandering the surface, with a reputation for selling the most well made weapons and enchantments that gold can buy.  

Let me ask you all a question.

Does having drow PCs in public places take the joy of playing on Layo away from you as a player?

I am loving this tread by the way, it has been a whirlwind of chaos from the get go.

[Polak76]

To answer bluntly I would say yes.  And that came from the manner they have addressed my PC or the way people intereact with them.

Then again I have met some Drow who I've had some of the best RP sessions ever.

Actually one of my all time favourite sessions was when Storm worked with my char Ramanon to break the marriage between Veldrin and Lal.  But that was a troubled drow played extremely well.

Anyway I can go on about it but this is starting to get repetitive.  We have an even split of Drow do-gooders and ones that feel they should be played as monsters.

You know my opinion so I'll leave it at that.

[Niles09]

Evil drows disgused as one of Azatta? Evil drows see other races as lesser and Azatta and her followers as traitors... It might be smart, but also under their dignity.

[Gulnyr]

AeonBlues - 9/26/2006  3:33 AM

I would like to just point out at this  time, that all we have to do about this, is write into the lore that merchants from just about all races travel the lands and interact in cities and villages.  They have to obey the same rules that everyone else does, but these traveling merchants of exotic goods exist and create level of diversity that makes our game world a fun and interesting place to RP.  Then assume heroes of all races also and exist... and you end up basically where we are today.

Please tell me if I misunderstand.  Are you suggesting a change to the history and handbook to support the current status rather than a change by the players to roleplay the history as it stands?

While we are making Layo into a perfectly realistic fantasy setting, please inform the deer that they are acting very OOC to any deer I have ever seen.  I think most deer would run from anyone clunking down the road in full plate armor.

They used to run.  When the new system was put in so that Rangers and Druids could calm several animals at once, the deer got a little wonky.  *shrug*  

I guess my point with that, is there has to be a certain margin of realism that is sacrificed to the fact that we are enjoying a computer game world.

Of course, but changing the history and handbook has nothing to do with the limitations put on us by the game engine.  Those are external to the game engine, and should be used as tools for proper roleplaying within the game engine.  Altering the background to match our roleplaying, in my opinion, would be admitting that we are too pitiful to roleplay according to the history and conditions as they are written.  I believe we are a good enough group of roleplayers to read the history and the handbook and play within those guidelines.

So [the Drow] could be the little kitty.  They could be the courier hawk.  They could be invisible.  There are a lot of possibilities that would allow dark elves to spy, and nothing anyone does will ever stop the drow from getting the information that they want.  They could hire a halfling merc to gather the information for them.

I don't think anyone suggested that the Az'atta disguise was the best way to get the information, or that there weren't other ways.  I would argue that cats and birds can't open doors or gates (regardless of NWN allowing it and bad RPers doing it), and doors seemingly opening and closing on their own (because of invisible people) could attract unwanted attention.  But you are right - if they want info, they can get it.  Look back a page at Ed's comment about PCs taking Drow spies on a tour of Mistone.  Dumb enemies are the best enemies.  It's amazing Drow don't control the surface with all the Drow-hugging going on.

Does having drow PCs in public places take the joy of playing on Layo away from you as a player?

Only because of metagaming.  Any metagaming bugs me.  It is irritating when the player of a Drow, knowing Drow are hated and feared and shunned, has his Drow character walking around town openly, doing all the things a regular Elf would do as if Drow were not hated and feared and shunned.  As you said, we have to allow for the limitations of the game.  Since the game can't treat Drow like Drow, the players need to suck it up and make their Drow behave like Drow.

[Allorian]

Perhaps the Drow shows his face out of Arrogance and the belief that they should be treated as equals? Before Raine visited the Temple of Aragen and had his 'realization', he was an arrogant drow who openly held verbal fights with others around Hlint; that was until Garnet told him to leave town nicely (afterward he found himself lost and decided to seek the guidence of Ozy and Aragen). Now he walks with a hood and disguises his appearance, many people no longer know his identity (minus a few who he's RP'd with for quite some time).

Only because of metagaming. Any metagaming bugs me. It is irritating when the player of a Drow, knowing Drow are hated and feared and shunned, has his Drow character walking around town openly, doing all the things a regular Elf would do as if Drow were not hated and feared and shunned.

I do not think a drow walking uncovered is metagaming. A young good drow new to the surface world would most likely be ignorant to the rules of the land. For instance, I RP'ed my Drow getting beaten savagely by withchunters for walking the surface uncovered. However I guess this can be disputed. But I guess if a drow is walking around openly, they should be prepared to deal with the consequences, ex; a DM taking control of a guard and removing the dark elf from the town. If you choose to play arrogance, then you choose to except the consequences. (Gul, I'm sure you remember the encounter between Jennara and Raine). However, I agree totally that drow players should not openly attempt to purchase goods from merchants or try to receive quests from good aligned PC's uncovered. But I must also point out that mot characters do not receive a helm until near level three or four. This could cause a dilema. Also I would like to touch on the point of beastmen walking around in Hlint. Should no tthy be treated equal to drow? Considering Ogres frequently raid the trade lanes between Hlint and Llast (or so it is told, correct me if I am wrong once more) I highly doubt they will be warmly accepted as well. But there really is not means to cover up an Ogre or Half Giant...

Just some inqueries and statements to add to the discussion... (I like to debate; actually I like to debate alot and both sides of arguements at that :-) )

[Gulnyr]

Allorian - 9/26/2006  6:10 PM

Gul, I'm sure you remember the encounter between Jennara and Raine.

I do.  Jennara was looking out for the welfare of the citizens of Hlint.  She didn't want to see a panic among the people, and a Drow could easily cause a panic.  She thinks a Drow who is truly good and courteous would cover himself to prevent trouble for others.

Also I would like to touch on the point of beastmen walking around in Hlint. Should no tthy be treated equal to drow? Considering Ogres frequently raid the trade lanes between Hlint and Llast (or so it is told, correct me if I am wrong once more) I highly doubt they will be warmly accepted as well. But there really is not means to cover up an Ogre or Half Giant...

In most cases, they should be treated poorly.  I think Wemics might be odd enough to create enough curiosity to overcome fear... sometimes.  

Half Ogres and Half Giants would have it rough, but they are more likely to be exploited for their strength, and may be treated somewhat like a cross between an ox and a pet dog.  They still might not be able to deal with merchants or rent a room in the inn.

Orcs and Goblins should be treated about the same as Drow.  Half Orcs probably aren't very popular with most people, but they may be able to cover up and pass as a bulky Human.

Drow are really the worst of the worst, though.  I bet even Giants and Orcs tell their children scary stories about Drow.

[AeonBlues]

Gulnyr - 9/26/2006  2:53 PM

AeonBlues - 9/26/2006  3:33 AM

I would like to just point out at this  time, that all we have to do about this, is write into the lore that merchants from just about all races travel the lands and interact in cities and villages.  They have to obey the same rules that everyone else does, but these traveling merchants of exotic goods exist and create level of diversity that makes our game world a fun and interesting place to RP.  Then assume heroes of all races also and exist... and you end up basically where we are today.

Please tell me if I misunderstand.  Are you suggesting a change to the history and handbook to support the current status rather than a change by the players to roleplay the history as it stands?

Yes, we as players can to a certain extent write the history and story of Layonra.  When ever someone writes up a biography of a new character, their story has to fall in line with lore, or their story is incorporated into lore  Effectively changing the history.  When a change to the story is approved by the lore team, the world becomes a richer and more colorful place.

The extreme desire I am reading from this thread, is that all drow disguise them selves, hide in the shadows, never interact with other PCs, and be denied access to merchants and craft halls.  Of course, most the players complaining about the drow PCs and calling us bad roll players, are the same ones that never interact with drow PCs in the first place.

And YES, I think that if the game mechanics does not match the story, we should alter the story just a tad so that we have a smooth plot that we can all enjoy and work with.

Also, I think it was a mistake to put Az'atta in the pantheon, without also building some story around Az'atta worshipers that are found on the surface.  Oh wait, as a cleric of Az'atta that would be my character's job right?

The fact that there is a good drow goddess makes this whole issue very complex.  

It would be a lot easier to RP a drow worshiper of Az'atta if there was more stories of Az'atta worshipers to reference.  This would be another positive way we could enrich our game world without making it impossible to play a drow and interact with other PCs.

Cym's biggest goal in life, though I know it is not a very realistic one, is to make everyone on the surface world  know that if you need help, you should ask the church of Az'ata.  Also to make every dark elf in the under dark know that it is possible to betray their masters and change the way they live their life.  That there is a better life waiting for them on the surface.

The bottom line here is, how can you accuse any drow PC of bad roll play, when everyone has a different opinion of how a drow would be perceived?

 Did everyone stop to think that dark elf worshipers of Az'atta should RP a bit of denile about being a drow?  Az'atta is a goddess of Love, so worshipers of Az'atta would be much more likely to think of them  selves as worshipers of Az'atta then to think of them selves as Drow.  Which does infarct represent a completely different culture and system of values.  

Really, it seems like a very small % of players are disgruntled with how Drow are perceived.  So yah, stating that merchants of all races travel and sell their goods, is both believable and is a quick and simple fix.  I have never read in the handbook or lore, that commoners will raise arms and attack a lone drow in their town that is not attacking anyone.  Everyone in this thread seems to think that any drow would get killed on site.  So, since about 80% of drow PCs worship a Good Dark Elf Goddess, I think we can come up with a more clever fix to these issues then making dark elf worshipers of Az'atta an unplayable character theme.

AeonBlues

[Ne'er]

The extreme desire I am reading from this thread, is that all drow disguise them selves, hide in the shadows, never interact with other PCs, and be denied access to merchants and craft halls. Of course, most the players complaining about the drow PCs and calling us bad roll players, are the same ones that never interact with drow PCs in the first place.

There could be a several good reasons for this. One is that the people who feel drow are RP'd poorly are the same people who play characters that would kill a drow if they spotted them. They DO NOT WANT to interact with a drow because the very fact that they are talking to one in the open contridicts their character. They should be killing or scaring away that drow, not discussing their differences.

 So, since about 80% of drow PCs worship a Good Dark Elf Goddess, I think we can come up with a more clever fix to these issues then making dark elf worshipers of Az'atta an unplayable character theme.

80% of drow PCs worship Az'atta because they cannot be evil, and most people want to play that "outcast" from the drow society. After all, Drizzt was cool. Most of us can admit that. But Drizzt was a freak, and a freakish freak. He is, by no means, a percentage of the drow population. He is not representative of them. Just like the "good" drow of Layonara are NOT representative of the drow population.

The drow helped serve Bloodstone. The drow have raided Port Hamphire, Hlint, Spellgard, and that is to name a few. Milara, one of the most feared and evil people in Layonara is a drow. These drow ARE representative of the drow population. Why? because this is what most drow are like. They are not the good guys. They are like devils, demons, beasts, giants, orcs, goblins, and the monsters that adventurers go out and hunt all the time. They are the villains. No one ever asks the monsters taht get slaughtered every day "Are you a good one or a bad one?" (yes this has been asked of me when I played a drow awhile back). Instead, they are killed on sight. So why would a race a PC goblin, orc, drow, half-giant, or half-ogre recieve a different treatment?

The answer is that people know better. These are players. They can't be evil, because you can't play evil from the start. You can't PvP them, so what are you left with doing? Many just call it quits and embrace them openly.

So what would I suggest in this drawn-out debate that doesn't change the rules of the game? Sadly, there is very little that can be done. Although the fact that less drow are being approved is good. That means that we have less non-evil drow flooding the world and watering down an alrighty watered-down character idea.

Instead, the only thing I can really say is to try and pt yourself into the mindset of your character. You're whole life everyone has told you that drow are evil. They are in that group with demons, the "Kill on sight" class of creatures. So what are you going to do? Really, it only makes sense that you would, at the very least avoid or make life difficult for them. And Drow PCs, the way to solve this problem on your end is to not hide behind the PvP rule and metagame. If they threaten you with violence, RP it with dicebags or request PvP, or leave. Don't stand their and say "No, I am not evil. You cannot hurt me." Really, that just frustrates everyone.

And that's all of my thoughts and ideas. On a side note, I am impressed with this thread, and I do think it has set a record for longest potentially heated subject thread without being frozen. Good job everyone!

[AeonBlues]

Ne'er - 9/26/2006  4:44 PM


Instead, the only thing I can really say is to try and pt yourself into the mindset of your character. You're whole life everyone has told you that drow are evil. They are in that group with demons, the "Kill on sight" class of creatures. So what are you going to do? Really, it only makes sense that you would, at the very least avoid or make life difficult for them. And Drow PCs, the way to solve this problem on your end is to not hide behind the PvP rule and metagame. If they threaten you with violence, RP it with dicebags or request PvP, or leave. Don't stand their and say "No, I am not evil. You cannot hurt me." Really, that just frustrates everyone.

I feel a bit insulted by this.  I fully understand that this frustration does exist because Players do this.  

I do not RP my character that way.  My character does not respond to threats by running away.  Sorry, but that is not the metal that a hero is made of.  Secondly, if someone starts attacking him, he will do one of two things.  Fight back, or cast a spell.  Darkness, The domain sanctuary power, or Greater Sanctuary are all effective means of escape.

You want to talk about bad RP, lets talk about all the Players that ignore the fact that they are confronted with a persuade check of 21 to 40  in response to their character pulling out a sword.

AeonBlues

[Ne'er]

I did not mean to insult you. This is in no way directed at your character, because I have not once RP'd with you so to make claims about your personal RP would be ignorant of me. The things that you present as your means of 'fighting back' are perfectly viable, and I applaud that.

However, as far as persuade checks go there are situational modifiers to checks like that. If you try and say something believable, okay, a simple DC works. HOWEVER, if you are trying to convince someone that a drow is good, well, the DC is going to be VERY high. As I said before, they are categorized with demonsand devils in the evil group. As in, they are all mean and nasty and only the darkest people affiliate themselves with it. Someone who has had this drilled into their head their entire life is not likely to accept this, especially if it is coming from a said creature. If I were to watch such an encounter, I would set the Persuade DC very high, quite likely higher than 40. After all, why should any one belief the devil when they know better through education?

And please, remember that this thread is not targeted at you Aeon. As I said, I do not know you as a player or as a character, so to make judgements about how you play would be foolish on my part. But I am afraid that you, playing a drow PC (regardless of how you play it) are going to get grouped in with the other drow players. And I know not all are bad RPers. However, I have noticed trends, and I felt they needed to be pointed out.

[AeonBlues]

Ok, taking a step back here.  I know this is not about me.  Players were sending me tells stating that this is not about me before I jumped into this discussion.  I am learning from it though, and I feel it is my responsibility as a player to play my character the way a dark elf cleric of Az'atta should be played.  

Off hand, I do not know of any other dark elf cleric's of Az'atta.  My character has had almost no guidance from his church.  Myself as a player has had very little guidance on how to play a dark elf cleric of Az'atta on Layo.  This has put me in the position of feeling that it is my responsibility as a player, and Cymeran's responsibility as a cleric, to define what a dark elf worshiper of Az'atta is suppose to be.  This is why I have become so involved with this discussion.  At first I was staying out of this thread, but gah, Az'atta is being ignored.

I am frustrated because I am reading between the lines, and seeing that Az'atta has no real place on this game world.  It is like the very concept of a good dark elf is so backwards, and ridiculous, there has to be one in the pantheon. That a dozen or so that do exist, has a severe negative impact on this game world.



Aeon

[Drizzlin]

Polak76 - 9/25/2006  9:30 PM



At the end of the day I'm glad we've put a stop on allowing sub-classes at this point in time.  I think all Drow should be treated as evil, and played as CN.  Then only through a series of rigourous CDq's should they be considered for alignemnt shift and alternate Deities.

NB: this is only my opinion.

TN should be allowed too. One step removed from their dieties is more than ok. After all if it were CN only, there would be NO clerics of Ca'Duz.

[Gulnyr]

AeonBlues - 9/26/2006  9:59 PM

My character has had almost no guidance from his church.  Myself as a player has had very little guidance on how to play a dark elf cleric of Az'atta on Layo.  This has put me in the position of feeling that it is my responsibility as a player, and Cymeran's responsibility as a cleric, to define what a dark elf worshiper of Az'atta is suppose to be.

That can be tough.  I've felt the same way with Jennara at times, odd as that may seem.

This is why I have become so involved with this discussion.  At first I was staying out of this thread, but gah, Az'atta is being ignored.

I can assure you I have not been ignoring Az'atta in my posts.  It's more that I don't think most people care about the Drow's religion.  It is my position that the 99%+ of people who are not adventurers and not directly represented in-game don't care that a Drow is wearing the symbol of Az'atta.  The lowly and uneducated see a Drow and are afraid.  Their villages and towns have been attacked by Drow.  They are prejudiced and it will take a lot of hard work to change that, if it can be changed at all.  An obvious Drow in a town is a disturbance whether a DM has an NPC react or not.

I don't speak with an official voice, but I imagine that most villagers might say prayers to a handful of gods, and not care much about the others.  Prunilla will get prayers from the farmers, craftsmen will toss a few prayers to Dorand, anyone with things to sell might pray to Deliar now and then, young lovers might pray to Ilsare, sailors could make offerings to Mist for their own safety, and the sick might pray to Aeridin if the village healer can't help much.  Most of the other gods probably wouldn't get a lot of attention.  Sure, there could be a few who have a special prayer for one of the other gods now and then, but most people aren't going to dwell on the law and justice of Rofirein or how much Aragen knows.  Even town guards and militia aren't likely to think much about Vorax until they actually have to fight.

Now, on top of that, if these common folk know anything of Az'atta at all, it is likely that she is a Drow goddess.  That's pretty much the stopper for most people right there.  "Drow?  Tha's all I gorta know."  Even if they are open-minded enough to consider further, most people probably don't think they need a whole lot of redemption.  If they wrong their neighbor, they don't pray to Az'atta, they go next door and apologize and it's all over and behind them.  Is there more to Az'atta than that?  Of course, but most citizens of Layonara really and truly do not want the help of a Drow, and they don't want to help that Drow.  They are terrified of Drow.  They probably believe that any Drow offering to help is planning some sort of trick, and they certainly don't want to assist in that devious plan somehow.  

I know that isn't exactly in line with the LORE page about Az'atta, since her Clerics are to be clearly labeled so people can find them to ask for aid.  Of course, it doesn't say the Clerics are Drow, but that seems like a fair possibility.  I can see how you would be frustrated by this sort of anti-Drow reaction alongside that dogma.

[Polak76]

"I do not RP my character that way. My character does not respond to threats by running away. Sorry, but that is not the metal that a hero is made of. "

My response to this is simply that your character is not a hero...yet.   We all would like to hve our characters be hero's but that title must be earned.  So if you wish to act in any specific manner you'll be treated accordingly I would hope.  I've played many PC's, most of them hated.  I love the arguments and the reactions.  I even have a Drow Cleric of Vierdri'ira (CN) but I keep her well hidden or invisible.  My only interactions have usually lead to arguments or me fleeing.  Thats what makes her fantastic to play.

"I am frustrated because I am reading between the lines, and seeing that Az'atta has no real place on this game world. It is like the very concept of a good dark elf is so backwards, and ridiculous, there has to be one in the pantheon. That a dozen or so that do exist, has a severe negative impact on this game world."

Actually I really like that Deity, and Az'atta being a drow Goddess is a metaphor for love, compassion and most of all redemption.  She is not a beacon for summoning all Drow.  I've played two characters who followed Az'atta and I think she definately has an important role on Layo...lets not overlook that.  Secondly the concept is not backwards.  It's accented!  As we've mentioned, Drizzt is special because of how rare he is.  So in the token is Az'atta.

Anyway I'd love my Drow Priestess to cross your path.  I dont think we've ever met before but I can't even begin to imagine how I'll RP it.  Could be some fireworks!!

[Talan Va'lash]

Polak76 - 9/25/2006  9:30 PM
At the end of the day I'm glad we've put a stop on allowing sub-classes at this point in time.  I think all Drow should be treated as evil, and played as CN.  Then only through a series of rigourous CDq's should they be considered for alignemnt shift and alternate Deities.

NB: this is only my opinion.

All drow should be treated as evil and played as CN...?

I'm probably not reading that as you intended.

Drizzlin - 9/26/2006  8:53 PM
TN should be allowed too. One step removed from their dieties is more than ok. After all if it were CN only, there would be NO clerics of Ca'Duz.

TN is not allowed for a cleric of any CE god. TN is two steps away from CE, one step on the good axis and one step on the law axis.