A question about the Epic spell: Epic Warding

[Jonzer Hexblade]

I was reading through the epic spell list and their requirments and noticed while reading up on Epic Warding that a 15th level Pale Master can take this spell. I have two questions regarding that. 1) Does the character have to have 15 lvls in Pale Master or just be a total of 15 lvl's with Pale Master in there somewhere? 2) If this is the case does the character in question have to meet the certain number of ranks in spellcraft requirment?

Thanks in advance for any info.

(I want to know because I play a 13/2 Sorceror/Pale Master)

[Ozy_Llewellyn]

1) The character must have 15 pale master levels.
2) They still must meet the Spellcraft Requirement.

[Ar7]

That spell is just an unobtainable dream for every wizard.

[Talan Va'lash]

You must be character level 31 to meet the spellcraft requirement
 

[crazedgoblin]

its the coolest looking defence spell there is

[Faldred]

Talan Va'lash - 8/8/2006  5:52 AM    You must be character level 31 to meet the spellcraft requirement
 

 Not true.  You can take Skill Focus and Epic Skill Focus to gain up to 13 additional ranks above and boyond the normal 1 rank per level (plus 3 at first level).  You'd still have to be level 21 in order to qualify for epic feats, however, and you'd be using your feat at 21st level for Epic Skill Focus.  As for the specific character concept, if he can't cast level 9 spells from his sorcerer levels, he'll need 15 levels of Pale Master, which is impossible until at least level 25.

[Xandor Loriland]

Does skill focus or base Int modifier or anything else add to the spellcraft ranks for the prerequisite or is it just the base points put into the skill?

[Faldred]

Xandor Loriland - 8/8/2006  12:41 PM

Does skill focus or base Int modifier or anything else add to the spellcraft ranks for the prerequisite or is it just the base points put into the skill?

Perhaps I need to check it out in-game, but the feats should add to your base ranks, and therefore apply to requirements, whereas INT modifier (natural or enhanced) is still a modifier, and should not apply to prerequsities.  However, I note that LORE does not include the values from Skill Focus in the "Skills" section of the character page...

[Reventage]

Only the base ranks count towards qualifying for a feat. By base ranks I mean the skill points you allocate to the skills each time you level up.

[Faldred]

Reventage - 8/8/2006  12:53 PM

Only the base ranks count towards qualifying for a feat. By base ranks I mean the skill points you allocate to the skills each time you level up.

Hmmm... the manual says "A character with this feat is adept at a certain skill, gaining a +3 bonus on all checks with it."

That could certainly be interpreted as being considered a modifier, and not an addition to base skill, and it appears that is what the NWN engine does with it.

If I were GM'ing a PnP game, I'd make a house rule / clarification that Skill Focus would count toward prerequisities, though.

[FlameStrike]

Ah, but we all know there are sooo many differences between Nwn and PnP.

 Last time i tried, i think you'd need the base skill points you spend at level-up just like Rev mentioned, i'll try using Skill Focus if i have some time.

[Jonzer Hexblade]

Hmmmm maybe it's just me but this whole 15th lvl Pale Master thing seems a bit useless. I mean you have to be at least 5th lvl in a archane spellcasting class to meet the 3rd lvl archane casting requirment, even then lets say you take the next 15 lvls in Pale Master. That would take you to lvl 20, and for one thing from what I hear is it is extremly difficult if not immpossible to have 32 spellcraft by then and you are almost epic anyway so why not just wait?

It is the coolest looking graphics ever though  

[Faldred]

Jonzer Hexblade - 8/8/2006  1:20 PM

Hmmmm maybe it's just me but this whole 15th lvl Pale Master thing seems a bit useless.

It has not only a Spellcraft prerequisite, but also requires the ability to cast 9th level spells.  The exception being 15 levels in Pale Master.

[Jonzer Hexblade]

And you don't gain new spells while you are taking Pale Master lvl's so it seems to me this is kindof a non-affect. For lack of a better term.

[Faldred]

Jonzer Hexblade - 8/8/2006  1:20 PM

you have to be at least 5th lvl in a archane spellcasting class to meet the 3rd lvl archane casting requirment, even then lets say you take the next 15 lvls in Pale Master. That would take you to lvl 20

You can only take a maximum of 10 levels in a given Prestige Class prior to level 21.

[Talan Va'lash]

Epic spells aren't spells they're feats.
 
  You can't advance beyond level 10 in a PrC untill you are at least level 20 character level.
 
  The lvl 15 PM clause doesn't let you get it earlier, it lets you get it at all.

[Jonzer Hexblade]

So it is impossible to meet the requirment to take advantage of this "bonus for being a high lvl Pale Master" until you become epic at which point you could take it anyway. Am I missing something or am I correct in this being impossible to take advantage of and if I am correct is it possible to alter the requirments so it can still be used by aspiring Pale Masters?

[Jonzer Hexblade]

Talan Va'lash - 8/8/2006  7:47 AM    Epic spells aren't spells they're feats.
   
  You can't advance beyond level 10 in a PrC untill you are at least level 20 character level.
   
  The lvl 15 PM clause doesn't let you get it earlier, it lets you get it at all. 

 In that case its like saying "Everyone that makes epic spellcaster gets an egg and oh if you are epic with 15 Palemaster lvls you still get an egg!"

[Faldred]

Jonzer Hexblade - 8/8/2006  1:48 PM

So it is impossible to meet the requirment to take advantage of this "bonus for being a high lvl Pale Master" until you become epic at which point you could take it anyway. Am I missing something or am I correct in this being impossible to take advantage of and if I am correct is it possible to alter the requirments so it can still be used by aspiring Pale Masters?

It is a bonus feat you are eligible to take as a Pale Master.  The requirements for being able to take the feat are:

* Ability to cast 9th level spells -OR- 15 levels of Pale Master
* 34 ranks in Spellcraft

I don't think it's explcitly stated, but I imagine you'd have to be taking your current level as either a "spellcatser" class (including Pale Master) in order to select the feat.

[Faldred]

Jonzer Hexblade - 8/8/2006  1:51 PM

In that case its like saying "Everyone that makes epic spellcaster gets an egg and oh if you are epic with 15 Palemaster lvls you still get an egg!"

Put it this way: without the special Pale Master clause, a Pale Master would be completely unable to select this feat unless (s)he had 17 levels of Wizard or 18 levels of Sorcerer.  Or, in the case of a really odd build, 17 levels of Cleric or Druid plus the arcane requirements [Wiz 5/Sorc 6/Bard 7] to get into Pale Master in the first place.

I mean, I suppose you could have a funky Cleric 17 / Bard 7 / Pale Master 7 build, and it would be eligible for Epic Warding if Spellcrafte were maxed out, because the Cleric levels would provide the 9th level spell prerequisite.